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If I were stuck in this position, I would do the following:

1) Focus on production and delivery for the French backers first. It will cost the least, generate goodwill locally, and possibly spark demand for more of the metals, which will begin to defray the cost to

2) Ship to the closest European backers next. Again, generate local goodwill, reduced shipping charges, and allows for the buildup of European focused tournaments and displays. This would also allow SD to take miniatures to local events and sell them.

3) Ship to international backers slowly as the funds allow. Yes, this will infuriate many, many people, but they may eventually get their product. And SD really need a win and a marketable product.

They actually have a good idea here with the metals, and had this been full metal from the start I would have probably kept my pledge. As it stands, they have a chance of further tarnishing their name internationally but producing a saleable product line. If they are intelligent, they will keep it in production. But that it is a pretty big if.

Shocking how many people seem to stay positive with this many red flags. Gets worse with every update, but people seem blinded by the perceived increase in quality.

It was near undoable before with plastic, now it's simply impossible, not tricky, not "if this" or "if that", what they have now promised is simply not doable at all..

New update (yes really !), about selling Celebration Boxes for a new price for those who didn't pledge for it :

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2530033

Greetings everyone,

First off, we’d like to thank all of you for the many comments we got over the past 48 hours on our various social media regarding the announcement of going fully metal for Confrontation miniatures.

We understand the issues and the importance of this change, as well as the new questions it raises. There’s only one judge and it’s you, the community of players, collectors, and other fans who allow our gaming world to thrive.

Reading your mails and messages, we’re quite happy to see the favorable response to this change. Of course, there will be no triumphant crowing before the start of shipping. We understand your vigilance and the need to have regular follow-up on production. We won’t disappoint you.

Now that production has begun, we’ve decided to return Confrontation Classic products to sale. This extra income will allow us to ensure the functioning and development of our miniature team which is working on Confrontation Resurrection.

● As we’ve pointed out in the previous news update, “the cost per miniature of each metal figure is much higher than in plastic”. In fact, we’re making almost no money on the boxes already sold during the Kickstarter. This is why we have to revise the cost upwards for the sale of the next batch of boxes and why every potential cancellations of the Celebration Box at the original cost won’t be reopened at the original price.

The new offer

● The metal Celebration box is now offered at a cost of 499 euros all taxes incl (roughly $562) for a duration of two months, until Wednesday July 31st 2019 at midnight. In order to ensure the smoothness of logistics, this offer is limited to 500 boxes.

After July 31st 2019 it will go up to 599 euros (roughly $674).

This single box contains 254 different metal miniatures, the value of which would be over 1200 euros (roughly $1350) if it was sold in stores.

We’re reopening the pledge manager (here's the link). The Metal Celebration Box, Gaming Selections and Collector’s Choice offers are once again available.
If you want to benefit from the new offers, know that our pledge manager is open to all, whether backer or newcomer.
Some of our add-ons aren’t yet available in a metal version. We’ll be offering these quite soon.

Thanks to all of you. And see you quite soon on Aarklash!

Yep, that means opening the pledge manager again. Those who pledged 1$ can now change their mind. But they don't get the advantage in comparison to those who pledge originally, who keep the bargain.

Honestly, it's more understandable that way. It's clear they're making this at a loss and will need to raise new funds to keep their promises. Question is : will people take the bait ?

It makes a lot of sense, but I wonder if their odd business practices and sudden loss of money (that was predicted) will have burned too many bridges to make serious money off the box. Esp when you consider that this is a big one-cost upgrade choice. It's not the same as tempting people with lots of minies and the price creeping up; its one big price.

Yes, great idea to give them even more money up front on only promises. I wouldn't touch this regarldess of how good the deal seems to be. Just wait until they hit retail! Or even better, go search the internet for the original Confrontation miniatures. You will get the exact same thing, only that you will be able to get the right now without having to risk of getting scammed out.

Im in at $1 and metal does interest me, but like you say with all the past red flags and now the sudden urge to sell celebration boxes at $500 doesnt give me much confidence they can actually pull it off with the money they have already and any future money given to them could be at risk and im not chancing it.

Is the newly priced boxes needed to fund the original boxes? What about the new boxes? Do they need another new box to fund that new box?

Too risky.

This move doesn’t smack of desperation at all.

Waiting for the next press release saying that to honor the classic nature they will use lead

I was wondering why the company would decide to try and ship metals at a likely very substantial loss. It makes a lot more sense in the context of trying to get more people to buy in. I mean, it’s possible they want to make every backer whole again, but it’s also possible that this is a way to raise even more cash before disappearing into oblivion.

I hope the backers get their figures, but I know I wouldn’t be upping my pledge if I were a backer.

I almost think that opening this up to 'retail' is going to make things worse for the KS backers, after all 'retail' buyers will have credit card companies (or paypal if SD hasn't lost the company account yet) who can claw the money back for non delivery

(well if they aren't strung along for too long anyway)

So if the stuff gets made it's likely to go out to the 'retail' buyers before the KS backers

To be fair if you keep all correspondence both banks and Paypal will often resolve matters when its clear that the store has been stringing the customer along. Though sometimes you have to ask to be put through to a supervisor/manager/etc as its outside of regular protocol for the first line of communication.

There has to be money in the account for PayPal to refund otherwise you get the comical "Good news! We were able to recover $0.00 of your funds" email from them if the scammer empties it out regularly.

 warboss wrote:
There has to be money in the account for PayPal to refund otherwise you get the comical "Good news! We were able to recover $0.00 of your funds" email from them if the scammer empties it out regularly.

Actually, that's changed.
I have a business account for PayPal for when I accept commissions for buyer security.
In July, refunds will be given, even if you have no funds in your account. PayPal will now use any other payment method you have attached to your account to pay back any funds now owed to clients/buyers.

So even if the seller has no funds in their account, PayPal is now authorized to take it from bank accounts and credit cards attached to a sellers account. It's an extra layer of security for buyers, and if one doesn't accept these terms as a seller, you can't have a PayPal business account. AFAIK from what I have read regarding these new policy changes.

Some people reported to have received their resin pledges. Slowmo from the Conf'fédération forum (pictures, rest is in french but you're going there to just see how it looks, aren't you ?) : http://confrontation.vraiforum.com/t3912-%5BKS%5D-Confrontation-Classic-%28avril-2018%29-.htm?start=2895

A few pictures from his topic here (more in the link) :

The Great Skull :



Part of the Chimera :



Quality seems good, though there is some molding lines to remove. He says package was very minimal, miniatures are protected for postage and each are in a bag with their name on it, but that's pretty much it.

Hot damn!

Good to see!

Some news: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2549141?fbclid=IwAR0F-cgfieAuBrSPw6euFjG9e4kDjs_-DuAcQy5NJwCLFnbthoEAEcgOJ4s
They've beta tested the resurrection ruleset, and are now moving to the second iteration. KS Backers will be able to beta test the rules at some point.

Miniature Market also bought a lot of the celebration boxes too according to a Facebook post a while ago. That actually is a good thing as if they're able to produce the metal figures I might be able to buy some that I'm missing.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Miniature Market also bought a lot of the celebration boxes too according to a Facebook post a while ago. That actually is a good thing as if they're able to produce the metal figures I might be able to buy some that I'm missing.

Where does that news come from?!?

That is very interesting indeed...

On the their kickstarter update, but it actually says RESERVED.
So does that mean MM actually gave them money upfront or not?
If not, it could be a PR move to make people pledge more money.
I really want the box and almost did. But at the same time I really don't want to get scammed on that much money. Dunno what to do...

Looking at the state the group appears to be in i'd be looking at MM and ordering from them even if the deal wasn;'t as good as direct via the KS 'late backer' option

I think the risk of a direct order is too high

although if you're making a direct credit card purchase you should be covered, but I'd make certain of the CC t&c for that before spending (how long can I wait before a non delivery claim, some cut off at 3 or 6 months, has to be a direct transaction as some disallow send via paypal etc)

This would be a total win for MM. If this happens as planned, and MM receives and breaks down all of the Celebration Boxes (which is what I fully expect to happen), I will happily buy a quantity of Drunes and probably some Dirz characters.

Even at $6-10 per standard figure, they stand to make a killing.

Miniature Market, the American online game store, has confirmed their reservation of 400 Metal Celebration Boxes. The confidence they’re giving us is a great boost for Confrontation Classic and is excellent news for players on the other side of the Atlantic. In addition, we’re also in contact with various European distributors in order to ensure the deployment of the game on all territories. We’ll keep you informed each time about any agreements made with each of these.

We’re quite happy with the confidence that Miniature Market is putting in the release of Confrontation Classic. Our teams are also even more motivated considering that more good news will soon be announced.

Confrontation Classic will not be sold in stores as a complete box, but in the form of factions. We’ll soon be offering those for sale, so that anyone can participate, no matter what their budget.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2540914?fbclid=IwAR2_aZ5aCizy40GfoM--OId5i7lccHFha4u4mKmks62InwCn_yZMPTCPpYI

to me Reserved means put some money down. But maybe it's not. Don't know french so I'm not sure what the native words used mean.

It's not explicit in french too.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2550477
The news of the day is that the faction boxes are now available to preorder.

Hell, I'd probably pick some up myself if that's how things play out.

Problem is there's probably a lot of people out there who would gobble up all those Dirz models if that was the case. Gonna be some stiff competition hopefully!

Ya, Dirz is the one I'm missing a lot of. Would get goblins too. Have most but some are recasts.

 Lemure wrote:
Shocking how many people seem to stay positive with this many red flags. Gets worse with every update, but people seem blinded by the perceived increase in quality.

It was near undoable before with plastic, now it's simply impossible, not tricky, not "if this" or "if that", what they have now promised is simply not doable at all..

I disagree.

The plastic was completely undoable. The difference with metal is that they can deliver to some people this way. With plastic, they couldn't even get started.

It still requires that they bring in money that they clearly aren't bringing in.

Impressions from the people who played the Confrontation Resurrection beta at the Con in France last weekend, as copied from VraiForum (apologies for the dodgy Google Translate):

“According to the [Facebook] comments, Joss has recycled some of Alkemy's rules.
There is a story of "breaths" to perform actions and cumulative via different effects of the game on the same figure to activate several times, a bit like the "orders" of Infinity.
On the carets we can see a row of circles of Beige / Orange / Red colors that seem to correspond to a large number of PV and 3 states Light / Serious / Critical. The states on the lines seem staggered according to the figs, which would imply that the states are not calibrated on the same number of VPs following the figs: The big figs and / or the Possessed would have tendencies to resist the suffering and shifting states.
It would also imply that the weapons would inflict multiple damage, like at 40K?”
--
“I tested the beta of conf 'resurrection.
For me, the game looks like a cross between Alkemy and conf 'v3 or 3.5. It might be cool but I did not feel like the best of both was there.
I think they should not hesitate and put a big broomstick to confide and start from scratch: the basic game has more than 20 years and has undergone versions that took over the base. In short, I think the whole thing is old.
What I saw of the beta:
the +:
- alternating activation with direct combat,
- management of the breath (the action points),
- bluff system at the start with gasoline (even if the term is not top , why not) who will then be spread over the fighters,
- Wagered petrol points given to the opponent (what in multi player?). Basically, on a base 6 species each: in the first round I put 5 species, the opponent in bet 4; I have the choice in the first round to decide who starts. At the end of the round, I give my 5 essences to the opponent who gives me his 4: suddenly, I have one less for the bluff of the second round.
- "type" of fighter (warrior, marauder, priest, mystic, leader) allowing to obtain bonuses to bind (warrior +1 dice in charge, marauder +1/2 movement, etc ...): of course it is bonuses are limited and consumed with gasoline.
The -:
- Almost always as much carac 'on a fig: when a carac has been removed it is replaced by another ...
- heavy rolls of die: roll 3 dice and keep two. it's okay even if I'm not a fan.
In passive, we remove the highest result and we keep the others, in active we withdraw the lowest and we keep the others. What is active passive? That's it:
Active or passive are constant choices and have no connection with who is activated: yes, it would be too simple! So it is with the breath: if there is still some breath to the fighter we can choose an active or passive jet, otherwise we make a passive jet. The extra stuff, because it's not over: critics are noted on the die that is removed. And it is a second value that is written on the face of the die. As a result, the die 2 values ​​per face: the number 1 to 6 and dots next to it. And to laugh even more, I happened to do 3 on two dice; one of the 3 had 2 critics and the other 1. So, a bit of trouble to understand the faces of the dice for me. I'm talking about dice of colors that changes with the level of health? The idea is good (even if it smells good Alkemy) but I do not
Hopefully they improve this beta, because in the current state, I feel more like taking my head with the dice rolled than anything else. When you see that most skirmish games show profiles with little carac ', simple resolutions of action and spices the game with the scenar', events, I do not understand the current direction of the beta that me seems to go to the gas plant 10/15 years ago. In short, I hope they will raise the bar and they improve their com 'who is nil to ch ... for the moment.
I did not see confrontation arena though.”
--
“For the breath, these are simply the action points of fig. On the demo (sessair / devoreur) the maxi was 2 breaths.
The rounds of colors are the pv.La colors allows to select the dice to throw (white / yellow / red)
The colors seemed to me to be distributed normally (1/3 life line for each), but maybe I'm wrong.
Possessed works a bit like before: in white and yellow state they take the white dice and in red state they take the yellow dice.
So yes, the weapons or rather the combatants, inflict several wounds: it depends on the number of criticism obtained, the strength value of the fighter and the armor value of the wounded.”

They've got all the metal moulds, the only issue will be paying staff wages, rent, rates and keeping the utilities going at their production site. Those are not small costs and many a KS has died because they've taken longer to produce than was estimated and run out of money to keep the company going. It's especially risky for any company when they do a KS without any prior retail outlet. Because then they've basically no way to earn until their product is on sale and they can't put it on sale until the KS deliveries are done (if they do it can backfire marketing wise in the extreme because now all those super keen KS backers are against the company).

Well, at least the metal casting company knows what they are doing. Looking great.
Still not convinced SD has the capacity to stay in business and deliver everything.

Hello everyone,

Here’s the news regarding the progress in our projects. We’re not giving you weekly updates like we wanted to, for the simple reason that things aren’t moving as quickly as we’d like them to. We have a number of active projects, and we’re making progress on all of them: Confrontation Classic, the resin models, the rules for Confrontation Resurrection, the ArenA project (revealed during the Octogones Convention by the authors, whom we thank), the Confrontation role-playing game, etc. In addition, there are the various publishing concerns of our business.

Trying to be everywhere meant we were getting nowhere. This is why we made the following announcement in September: Sans-Détour will reduce their book publishing activity in order to focus its energy and resources on the Confrontation project.
Priority to the metal Confrontation Classic models

We’ve hit some delays on launching production. We’re perfectly aware of the expectation on your end and we’d rather like to keep you informed. This delay is costing Sans-Détour operating costs, fees, salaries, etc. And we now have to work out expenses linked to fabrication (purchase of large quantities of metal for DTR, fabrication of the boxes, then, when the time comes, shipping, etc.), which clearly risks further stretching out the announced shipping delays. We will unfortunately not deliver for the end of this year, but all avenues are being explored so that you can get your first Classic models as soon as possible.

We’re also continuing the development of side projects, in order to not keep Confrontation Classic from having to bear all of Sans-Détour’s operating costs and so that we can keep moving forward.

As for the models themselves, we’re preparing the last few pieces, specifically the tabs under the feet (an aspect we actually hadn’t planned for!).

We are currently awaiting some metal models produced by DTR. They have been working hard on this !







Resin models

The production of the Wyrm and Hydra has been delayed, as their fabrication is a real technical challenge for De Tinnen Roos, who are more specialized in metal production. Actually, the risks of breakage and miscasts are high for some of the few delicate parts of these pieces. As soon as DTR has consolidated the design of these parts, they will send us a few resin castings, so that we can finish this first wave of shipping. We’ve made a few mistakes in a row and have suffered some blowback for this aspect of production and we’ve agreed with DTR to continue working on this specific production with other partners who are more experienced with it (we’ll share more details with you as soon as possible).

Sans-Détour