Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I did not even know that Cadwallon existed.

And still I had a bad feeling about this one even before it started as soon as I did some research. Actually you should always research before every Kickstarter, risk of getting burned is lowered quite a lot that way.

Working in the business you just know from experience what works and what not. And here already from the first announcement things did not really add up.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/996665814/confrontation-classic-the-legendary-skirmish-game/posts/2180551

New update with a redesigned card and gameplay demo PDF. Interested to hear people's thoughts on the card design.

The card is an old design from Confro 4. There were several variants and that was one of them.

No, confrontation 4 cards looked like that : https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/232754329827_/RACKHAM-CONFRONTATION-Scorpion-Syhar-Sighthounds-Unit-Box-Game.jpg
4 stat on the left and lines on the bottom with the weapon profiles.
What SD as shown is something new. It's the layout of a conf 3 card updated with the graphical chart of conf 4.

It definitely looks inspired by them. I have asked a few times about how this new format will work with abilities that effect a model's equipment. I know the Master of Carnage, which is included in the pledge, has an ability that does different things to models with different equipment. Maybe Sans Detour will provide an answer.

The ones that got finally released look like in your link, but I also saw different designs during talks with Rackham. They were probably trying several designs.

Can anyone educate me what is the difference between Confrontation 3 and Confrontation Evo? Which one is the format for the future?

Confrontation evo is the fan version that evolved from confrontation 3/3.5 made by the italian community (and conf'fédé is the fan version made by the french community).

Sans-Détours want to publish a new game, confrontation resurrection, when they will be delivering the minis from this KS.

wildger wrote:
Can anyone educate me what is the difference between Confrontation 3 and Confrontation Evo? Which one is the format for the future?

Neither is the format for the future.

Confrontation Evo is a fan made update to the Confrontation 3.0 rules set.

Sans Detour is planning on running a kickstarter sometime next year for a new version of the game called "Confrontation Resurrection." This new version is not available through their current kickstarter.

If Confrontation has a future with Sans Detour, then Con Resur will be the standard. If they fail to deliver their kickstarter, then Evo will be the way that fans continue to play.


Sans Detour have made it clear that they wish to have two kickstarters (this one, for Confrontation "Classic" which will simply republish the old rulebook, and a new one that they'll be running sometime next year). It does seem odd that they're announcing a new edition of the game, then run a kickstarter for the old one, but it is what it is.

I haven't seen the words "Kickstarter" or "Crowdfunding" mentioned for Confrontation Resurrection. Can someone show me where SD said this is how they plan to launch it?

Not that I don't think that was their plan, but I searched the other day and wasn't able to find where they said that.

I can't find it but on their Facebook page they refereed to Confrontation Classic as "the first kickstarter" and when I asked if that meant there would be a second and what that would be, knowing that they originally said resurrection was not going to KS... No reply. They were quite chatty before that.

The original Confrontation 3.5 already has a number of imbalance issues and has proved detrimental to the game. I don't quite understand why they want to promote it again and then to have it changed to the new unknown Confrontation Resurrection while ignoring the much well re-fined Confrontation Evo.

HaleysRedComet wrote:
I haven't seen the words "Kickstarter" or "Crowdfunding" mentioned for Confrontation Resurrection. Can someone show me where SD said this is how they plan to launch it?

Not that I don't think that was their plan, but I searched the other day and wasn't able to find where they said that.

They've stated a few times now that Resurrection won't be a KS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wildger wrote:
The original Confrontation 3.5 already has a number of imbalance issues and has proved detrimental to the game. I don't quite understand why they want to promote it again and then to have it changed to the new unknown Confrontation Resurrection while ignoring the much well re-fined Confrontation Evo.

The guys who created EVO did go in and speak to San Detour last year, but they didn't go into what was discussed, so who knows, maybe they have.

 .Mikes. wrote:

They've stated a few times now that Resurrection won't be a KS.

They may have said that assuming they will get a couple of million €€ for this KS.....

This was quietly dropped into their FAQ:

What is your process for plastic production?
- We are working from the original sculpts from Rackham. 3D scanning is optional and we will only use this process for some pieces that are really fragile (The Red Lioness for example)
- But basicaly, thanks to amazing sculpts done back then, we are able to engineer molds directly for the plastic production.
- Some minor modifications might be necessary depending on the miniatures. These modifications can be done directly by the manufacturer (no sculpting is needed at this point)
- Then the molds are manufactured and miniatures cast.
- They are now ready to be packed and shipped !

That uh. Yeah...

There isn't anything really new in that statment that we don't otherwise know.

Unless you mean the last bulletpoint which isn't a statement of their current situation but part of the bulletpoint time-line - ergo once they've done all the previous points then the models will be "ready to be packed and shipped".

It's not stating that they've already done all those steps.

That statement verifies they have no intention of scanning the models.

It verifies that they're not interested in modifying their models in a way to ensure they're consistent with the new materials the models are shifting into (PVC and undercuts argument).

It verifies that they're willing to run the risk of truly damaging a master, and combining that information with the sale of the masters and distribution through the golden ticket scheme, that they're essentially salting the earth.

None of that is SURPRISING. What's interesting is that it's posted now, and truly shows how little they understand.

The last bullte simply says that they have the stuff ready for shipping, but thats really not news. I can have everything ready for shipping.

More interesting is that Stellar removed the website part about who they are.
https://www.stellarlicencing.com/index.php/en/?Itemid=147

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:

More interesting is that Stellar removed the website part about who they are.
https://www.stellarlicencing.com/index.php/en/?Itemid=147

Mh. Another shady move, it seems. Which will only lead to more questions, as usual.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
The last bullte simply says that they have the stuff ready for shipping, but thats really not news. I can have everything ready for shipping.

More interesting is that Stellar removed the website part about who they are.
https://www.stellarlicencing.com/index.php/en/?Itemid=147

No legal information whatsoever actually.
Anyone wanna sue them?

 Hanskrampf wrote:


No legal information whatsoever actually.
Anyone wanna sue them?

On what grounds ?

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
The last bullte simply says that they have the stuff ready for shipping, but thats really not news. I can have everything ready for shipping.

More interesting is that Stellar removed the website part about who they are.
https://www.stellarlicencing.com/index.php/en/?Itemid=147

In the UK, there's a requirement that all websites for companies must have contact details other than simply a contact form or an email address (i.e. a phone number, a physical address, that sort of thing). Is that only a UK requirement, or does it apply to the EU too?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
The last bullte simply says that they have the stuff ready for shipping, but thats really not news. I can have everything ready for shipping.

More interesting is that Stellar removed the website part about who they are.
https://www.stellarlicencing.com/index.php/en/?Itemid=147

In the UK, there's a requirement that all websites for companies must have contact details other than simply a contact form or an email address (i.e. a phone number, a physical address, that sort of thing). Is that only a UK requirement, or does it apply to the EU too?

No, it's an European thing.

Laws like that could vary from state to state here. Is it possible that the French law is different?

It definitely isn't helping their cause to have information like that become unavailable.

HaleysRedComet wrote:
I haven't seen the words "Kickstarter" or "Crowdfunding" mentioned for Confrontation Resurrection. Can someone show me where SD said this is how they plan to launch it?

Not that I don't think that was their plan, but I searched the other day and wasn't able to find where they said that.

They announced that they'd have two kickstarters last December (announcement via Facebook).

While I couldn't find the original post for you, here's the Beasts of War report on it (I remember that there was also a post on TGN for the same thing).

Looking over the things that I've found, I can't find a place where they directly said that they'd do a kickstarter for Con-Resurrection/ I'm definitely not the only one who misunderstood that point. Especially when they've got banners like this showing the two off side by side:






Basically, the cirremt kickstarter is for Confrontation "Classic" - it represents a simple reprinting of old rulebooks with no changes, old sculpts cast in PVC etc. Confrontation Resurrection is a new edition of Confrontation, and the distribution has not been announced.

The announcement isn't an absolute commitment, but it shows that this was the plan.

elarquin wrote:
Then the molds are manufactured and miniatures cast.

So it sounds like they had a meeting with an overseas manufacturer and trusted them.

An old meme, but still holds true, I suppose...! :

None of that is reassuring - at all.

So I made sure to drop my pledge today, just to make sure I don't forget and get caught out at the end - and also to make sure I don't get caught in a potential "48 Hour Unfund Stampede"!

I mean, it probably won't unfund as that would take an average over 25k per day which isn't to likely. But man it should because otherwise there are going to be some angry and very bitter gamers out there.

I suspect your right

(even if it does by some miracle go as planned when the reality of this version being dumped for Evo in a years time it's going to smart with the typical 'nope, not playing an unsupported game' crowd even though they've been told its going to happen)

Well, it does not need to bleed daily that sum.... I guess near the end quite some will drop out.

Most KS have the most movement of money in the first and last few days; with most ticking over at a standard rate during the main body of the period (depending on how their advertising and campaign goes).

The way this one is going I suspect the last day they will see a lot of people drop. If they can't repair their marketing and customer relations chances are they will see a big loss on the last day - or any gain will be offset by loss.