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I am building a competitive battle company and I'd like to gather some thoughts about what people think is the optimal amount of grav in a list. I play primarily ITC events.

Thanks!

.. how much you got?

just take a look for yourself http://bloodofkittens.com/7th-edition-army-list-compendium/

Considering you will be up against units like Riptides and Eldar Wraith units, you can get away with using a lot. That is just how the game has evolved. At least one dedicated grav unit is essentially required for Space Marines at this point. In a Battle Company, Grav Devastators or a Gravgun Bike Command Squad will do nicely.

I mean that depends. VS anything other then a horde army their is no such thing as to much grav. I personally like to toss no less then 3 grav cannons in my TAC list.

When you can't handle daemons anymore, that's too much grav.

The question isn't how much as it is on what.
Grav guns + Bikes = good.
Grav pistols on tac sages = BAD

Just look at the renowned tournament lists for how grav spam works an how much you need. There is little use for creativity here really.

Martel732 wrote:
When you can't handle daemons anymore, that's too much grav.

He should take as much grav as he can.

The only thing that shouldn't be carrying a gravgun is things that can't carry gravguns

 Crazyterran wrote:
The only thing that shouldn't be carrying a gravgun is things that can't carry gravguns

See, I question that. Is a Tactical Squad really served well by carrying a Gravgun instead of a Plasmagun? I suppose that since Tacticals tend to sit on objectives and not move, they will be using the better profile, but a Plasmagun affords then more mobility and better range. I suppose it all comes down to personal preference at that point. But on relentless platforms and Devastators, there is no better option than Grav.

For my part, I have one squad of Grav Centurions in a Pod and run five Combi-Grav Sternguard in a Pod (they drop with five plain Sternguard, but I almost always combat squad them). I think I could probably use more Grav, but don't have the points for them without sacrificing something good.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
The only thing that shouldn't be carrying a gravgun is things that can't carry gravguns

See, I question that. Is a Tactical Squad really served well by carrying a Gravgun instead of a Plasmagun? I suppose that since Tacticals tend to sit on objectives and not move, they will be using the better profile, but a Plasmagun affords then more mobility and better range. I suppose it all comes down to personal preference at that point. But on relentless platforms and Devastators, there is no better option than Grav.

For my part, I have one squad of Grav Centurions in a Pod and run five Combi-Grav Sternguard in a Pod (they drop with five plain Sternguard, but I almost always combat squad them). I think I could probably use more Grav, but don't have the points for them without sacrificing something good.

It honestly depends on the list you are running. The days of tac squads sitting on objectives are gone. They are the guys who take them. My battle comapny uses scouts to sit on objectives. But even then objectives are usually malestorm so you cant guarantee backline scouts to be very useful.

As for the grav question i used to run 10 grav cannons (4 from dev and 6 form tac) problem was that it lacked versatility. Then i saw a person that ran 6 grav cannons, 8 combi grav, 13 grav guns and it worked somehow. I think it just depends. when you run agains daemons with that army you curl into a ball and cry. but then again you have obsec and the name of the game is objective taking. it just depends on your list. I tried my hardest to make my battle company as unique as possible.

Thanks for the feedback so far. In my current list design I am running 8 grav cannons (4 in a pod with cata-captain, 2 in a rhino dev squad, and 2 in tac squads with a rhino. I feel like 8 cannons is a good number but I'll have to play test it to know for sure.

When you pass the agreed on points or have more than you can legally carry.

[MOD EDIT - Don't use 'workarounds' for the expletive filter - Alpharius] Grav, take Phoshpex instead.

Grav is over rated. Take 3-5 grav cannons in a list around 1850 points and that is enough. I take them on 3 tac squads and 1 dev squad with a rhino in my demi companys. The rest I equip with plasma or melta (mostly plasma).

Grav is most useful when you can get it relentless or slow & purposeful, so you can move and shoot. Just blindly taking grav is not what I would do.

Centurion Devastators have slow and purposeful, are very useful; they also fit in a pod.

Devastator Marines with Grav Cannons where (a) in a rhino for the fire point, this would be 1x out of a TAC squad, or (b) with a cataphractii terminator captain, who confers slow and purposeful to the squad, or (c) in a skyhammer (but this is a heavy points investment, and will make up much of your list).

Biker special weapons. Bikes give relentless so grav makes sense here, but so does melta, because bikes can get in melta range.

if you find yourself taking a special grav gun on a tac squad, or a grav pistol, I think you've missed the plot. There are simply better ways to spend the points IMHO.

If you're looking for ways to WAAC:

1. Centurion Devastator Squad /w omniscope, 3xGrav Cannon, and 3xTwin Linked Bolters; pair them with HQ Chief Librarian Tigurius. His warlord trait can be used to confer Rending to the squad which makes those boltgun shots deadly against things they wouldn't normally hit (especially if you're in range to fire all 18). Also, you will reliably be able to roll either: Invisibilty, or the save-reroll power that came out with Angels of Death. Your only concern will be the AP2 weapons you might face, but if that's the case and you're using rerolls put Tiggy in front and soak the wounds. If you get super lucky you could even try to roll for Endurance in Biomancy. Invisible + Endurance on cent devs is just mean.

2. Cataphractii Iron Hands Terminator Captain /w gorgon chain and all the bells/whistles, lead blocking for 4x grav cannon marines. They'll be slow and purposeful because of how stupid Cataphractii terminator armour is, and your front target is basically unkillable. Also, this would all fit in a drop pod, and you could drop & shoot without wasting a ton of points as a part of skyhammer. Your only danger in both cases is melee, but Smashfeth Captain will handle melee with his ridiculous lightning claw & thunder hammer.

If you find yourself facing a lot of grav, find a way to get around some of the nastier rules people use to protect it. Lascannons will out range grav, too, for instance, and outside of some nasty death stars you will kill grav units.

Obviously, if you have any 5/6+ armor saves, you will do a handy job of screwing up grav. Daemons are the canonical example of negating grav with their lack of an armour save, making grav suck. Orks laugh at grav, too.

Martel732 wrote:
When you can't handle daemons anymore, that's too much grav.

I play daemons. Take as much grav as you want. Take it on every single model, if you'd like. It's cool! Heheheh.....

 timetowaste85 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
When you can't handle daemons anymore, that's too much grav.

I play daemons. Take as much grav as you want. Take it on every single model, if you'd like. It's cool! Heheheh.....

No such luck my friend. I max out at 2 x grav cannons, 2 X grav guns, 2 X combi-gravs.

I allie in grey knights most the time. Shockingly the anti demon faction is good at killing demons even though your grav is not.

In my experience, daemons curb stomp GK.

Martel732 wrote:
In my experience, daemons curb stomp GK.

Funny how that works.
Necrons, Eldar and Tau stomp Deathwatch pretty consistently as well - I wonder if it has something to do with both being Inquisition...

Deathwatch models are, in my view, a good way to give up a lot of points fast. Their guns don't warrant their cost. I had a guy practically wanting to hit me after his new shiny Deathwatch guys got a visit from Mr. Fragnought. All dead, first turn, before they could do anything.

Guess the Blood Angels in said Deathwatch company didn't share much information on their old chapter with their new brothers.
Or they were given the questionable honour of the long vigil for being incompetant...


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If meat shields were more common in general and tournament play Grav would be regulated by more often than not being useless.
Too bad tournaments work against horde armies.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
In my experience, daemons curb stomp GK.

Funny how that works.
Necrons, Eldar and Tau stomp Deathwatch pretty consistently as well - I wonder if it has something to do with both being Inquisition...

Strikes me more as them both being super elite armies with small model counts and nothing really buffing their resilience.

You can pretty much assume that GK, Deathwatch and Death Guard CSM armies are going to be similar sized due to points cost and playstyle.

Difference is one of these 3 has T5 and FNP so actually can survive the brutality of the shooting phase when so heavily outnumbered.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
In my experience, daemons curb stomp GK.

Funny how that works.
Necrons, Eldar and Tau stomp Deathwatch pretty consistently as well - I wonder if it has something to do with both being Inquisition...

Strikes me more as them both being super elite armies with small model counts and nothing really buffing their resilience.

You can pretty much assume that GK, Deathwatch and Death Guard CSM armies are going to be similar sized due to points cost and playstyle.

Difference is one of these 3 has T5 and FNP so actually can survive the brutality of the shooting phase when so heavily outnumbered.

Shame isn't it.

If you have to ask, then it isn't enough