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Wulfen are the most insane CC I've ever seen! Anything, like anything, they touch - goes up in a puff of smoke (including themselves, typically - whether in that CC or in the subsequent shooting phase where they're gunned down like dogs).

Is it folly to not find a place for them on the battlefield???
Thanks!

Not only they're an autoinclude, but their formation is an autoinclude too. So always take 2x5 wulfen in any SW lists.

Unless you play the blackmanes with a starting null deployment the murderpack is mandatory. Wulfen are insane in close combat but also buffer your thunderwolves, that's why I always take 2x5 wulfen and 2x5 thunderwolves (including an IC), they only cost 1100ish point in total.

Sometimes I play 3x5 wulfen but I prefer a bit more variety to be honest. Maybe in higher games (I never play with more than 1850 points) a lot of wulfen could be viable too, but in the standard format 4 units of close combat superstars are enough, and having many force the opponent to split his firepower or to concentrate only in 1-2 units so the remaining ones have the chance to strike at max efficiency..

I think I would lose friends if I fielded 15 Wulfen hahah. I always take 5 with an iron priest + 4 cyberwolves attached to drag hen into combat and it's savage enough.

Definitely an auto-include, they're crazy strong for their points and have rarely if ever had a sub-par game for me. In a tournament setting the murderpack is probably the way to go - I've never tried it, but my group isn't super competitive with the exception of 1-2 people, and that's when I break out my daemons anyway... maybe someday I'll buy another 5 and give it a shot, but for now even one squad has been strong enough.

I generally don't play CAD Space Wolves but I do use the Company of the Great Wolf almost every time I play Imperium.

I've never used Wulfen before - mostly because to get the most out of them you need to run the formation to get that 7+. At that point you're already looking at 300+ pts for a 1/6 chance for something amazing. They don't proc off themselves and they only make other units faster/better. As infantry, I can never see myself taking some over TWC - which is what I prefer.

If I was running a pure SW army I'd probably give them more of a chance and definitely run 3x5 or maybe even 4x5 to catapult my TWC more reliably. I run a lot of competitive lists so including Tiggy Conclave, Knight Atrapos', and other cheese usually outperforms 2x5 (or 3x5) Wulfen for a chance to move 24" with my TWC.

I think it's more of a 'CAD/pure SW (VS) SW+Allies' kind of decision rather than a 'Wulfen - Yes/No' decision.

TLDR - I prefer the 12" movement from TWC. Both my TWC and Wulfen perform the same in melee - the enemy dies. I run my TWC with max PFs/SSs though. Protected with Veil of Time for a 3++ rerollable.

Wulfen are slower than thunderwolves but not less resilient, both have 2 wounds and the chance to get 3+ invulns, thunderwolves have T5 and wulfen only T4 but they also have FNP.

Wulfen unleash a lot of attacks too, all s6-8-10 ap 1-2 but if they die in close combat they have a guaranteed chance to fight just the same. That's their real bonus, if they die against something with better initiative they can strike back with all their attacks, if they die against something with worse or equal initiative they get to strike a second time in the same turn.

About improving movement there's also the mid result that is very useful for thunderwolves, 3 inches gained in the movement phase, 3 in their run move and 3 added to their charge roll. With the murderpack a roll of 1-2 on the table is not very good but with a 3+ you always gain something good.

A full equipped murderpack (2x5 wulfen) costs only 460 points.

I hate every kind of alliances and I'm not interested in mixed armies, I only play pure SW among the imperium factions, so maybe there are better combinations than murderpack + thunderwolves, but wulfen are among the best units in 40k, I prefer them over the thunderwolves.

IIRC - Wulfen are 30 pts base and 20 pts more with the TH/SS combo.

Quick comparison:

50 pts Wulfen - 25 pts per wound
6" movement - no mobility increase with Curse
Run D6 (can charge and run)
2 wounds
3++, 5+ FNP, T4

80 pt TWC - 40 pts per wound
12" movement - mobility increase with Curse
Run D6 (can't charge and run)
2 wounds
3++, T5

On paper, the Wulfen seem to be worth is as long as you don't mind being denied charges until Turn3. TWC with their 12" movement can almost always catch a target in Turn2 assuming the enemy is only moving 6" a turn. The enemy can more reliable move almost as fast as the Wulfen themselves thus denying more assaults.

With the Wulfen Run & Charge bonus and pseudo Fleet, they come close to the speed of TWC on the turn they charge (even though TWC have proper Fleet).

The real kicker is the added mobility when you include both into your army.

As I mentioned - I run all the formation/ally goodness so the added movement on TWC make them my better option, but I definitely see the allure of Wulfen. That being said, if I had to venture a guess, a combination of 2x5 Wulfen and a half-decent equipped TWC would be ideal.

So to answer the OP:
Are Wulfen an Auto-Include? No. It depends on your army list.
Are Wulfen good, or even great? Yes - even arguably yes.
Are Wulfen better with TWC? Yes. They synergize very well.
Are Wulfen better than TWC? Point for point, yes. But it varies on your army list. Wulfen lack mobility - IMO. TWC make up for this.

I don't remember the exact cost of the models/wargear but a unit with 5 wulfen with a leader, 2 TH/SS, 2 axes and a stormfrag auto launcher is exactly 228 points, that's how I play them.

Wulfen are an autoinclude if you play pure SW. Actually taking both wulfen and thunderwolves is the real autoinclude due to the curse of the wulfen bonus on the thunderwolves.

Wulfen without TWC are not that good as they would be the priority targets in the opponent's shooting phase.

I always take 2 units of both, the remaining 700ish points instead are going to be different.

I also consider TWC and wulfen among my favourite models in the entire 40k so I must autoinclude them everytime

 Blackie wrote:


I also consider TWC and wulfen among my favourite models in the entire 40k so I must autoinclude them everytime

Quoted for truth! Mmm, preach!

Edit: At least the TWC part - I remember when I build my Iron Priests for the first time, all I could think: "I need more cavalry to attach these to..."

Given that they are 20 pts undercosted, that would a yes.

If you're using Wulfen on foot and are worried about not charging until turn 3, just attach a mounted iron priest with cyber wolves that conga line ahead of the Wulfen and drag them into combat through the charge move and subsequent pile in movements.

I've never had a problem getting them into assault on my second turn this way. It adds a lot of points to the unit, but also gives them a 2+ armor save out front and majority T5 until they lose one of the wolves.

Saythings wrote:
I generally don't play CAD Space Wolves but I do use the Company of the Great Wolf almost every time I play Imperium.

I've never used Wulfen before - mostly because to get the most out of them you need to run the formation to get that 7+. At that point you're already looking at 300+ pts for a 1/6 chance for something amazing. They don't proc off themselves and they only make other units faster/better. As infantry, I can never see myself taking some over TWC - which is what I prefer.

If I was running a pure SW army I'd probably give them more of a chance and definitely run 3x5 or maybe even 4x5 to catapult my TWC more reliably. I run a lot of competitive lists so including Tiggy Conclave, Knight Atrapos', and other cheese usually outperforms 2x5 (or 3x5) Wulfen for a chance to move 24" with my TWC.

I think it's more of a 'CAD/pure SW (VS) SW+Allies' kind of decision rather than a 'Wulfen - Yes/No' decision.

TLDR - I prefer the 12" movement from TWC. Both my TWC and Wulfen perform the same in melee - the enemy dies. I run my TWC with max PFs/SSs though. Protected with Veil of Time for a 3++ rerollable.

It's actually for a one in two shot. Alpha Hunters on a six and Bestial Swiftness on a two or three will get your TWC, Swift/Sky Claws or Jump/Bike Guard into the first turn charge range.

Back to the OP.
Wulfen don't actually make combat that often, so as a CC unit their value is questionable - as a buff unit with Space Wolves their value is beyond doubt. Insane CC units would be MCs, FMCs and GMCs eqipped with powerful, ranged weaponry.
There are great Space Wolf formations that don't include Wulfen, it's not folly.
Ragnar Blackmane's Great Company Drop Pod spam has a few variants that don't include the Wulfen, same with the Ironwolves, Murderfang is the auxillary, while technically Wulfen himself he's not a wulfen for gaming purposes.
Terminator kits are the way to stretch your Wulfen sprues - thirty to fourty bucks less than Wulfen and are easier to build.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Wulfen don't actually make combat that often, so as a CC unit their value is questionable - as a buff unit with Space Wolves their value is beyond doubt. Insane CC units would be MCs, FMCs and GMCs eqipped with powerful, ranged weaponry.
There are great Space Wolf formations that don't include Wulfen, it's not folly.
Ragnar Blackmane's Great Company Drop Pod spam has a few variants that don't include the Wulfen, same with the Ironwolves, Murderfang is the auxillary, while technically Wulfen himself he's not a wulfen for gaming purposes.
Terminator kits are the way to stretch your Wulfen sprues - thirty to fourty bucks less than Wulfen and are easier to build.

If youf field a single unit of wulfen on foot you're right, even with some thunderwolves near, they may not reach comabt at all. But if you play the murderpack and two units that benefit from them like thunderwolves or even skyclaws then those units will reach combat very soon letting your wulfen charge the subsequent turn. If you go first your wulfen will charge almost for sure, if you go second and face a lot of fire power maybe not but something among them or your thunderwolves surely will.

You're right about the blackmanes, it's a quite powerful formation and wulfen don't have any synergy with it, but in any other competitive list they're an autoinclude for sure. I don't like playing the blackmanes formation because it doesn't fit my style but it's a solid alternative. Wulfen don't have synergy with the ironwolves too, but that formation in not even remotely competitive.

Amazing feedback on this, quite enthused.

I too go the Iron Priest route, having tried different forms of IC's to make stars happen wrapping Wulfen.

Having mounted models does make turn 1 CC possible, turn two nearly undeniable. Had Eldar shooty competitive lists still after two turns shooting get reached in CC where they became wiped.

In a list thats getting really tight, trying to figure out room for them. What can I say, you guys are very convincing thank you

I have been messing with the Wulfkin formation, having Tiggy's two Enclave JumpPack Libby's jump around in them, force axing the big stuff. Also I do Bjorn, Rapier mortars, and Iron Priests with Cyberwolves.

So... not anything to take advantage of their buff lol!
However, going Blackmane I could see the Wulfen table being amazing! =D

 Blackie wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Wulfen don't actually make combat that often, so as a CC unit their value is questionable - as a buff unit with Space Wolves their value is beyond doubt. Insane CC units would be MCs, FMCs and GMCs eqipped with powerful, ranged weaponry.
There are great Space Wolf formations that don't include Wulfen, it's not folly.
Ragnar Blackmane's Great Company Drop Pod spam has a few variants that don't include the Wulfen, same with the Ironwolves, Murderfang is the auxillary, while technically Wulfen himself he's not a wulfen for gaming purposes.
Terminator kits are the way to stretch your Wulfen sprues - thirty to fourty bucks less than Wulfen and are easier to build.

If youf field a single unit of wulfen on foot you're right, even with some thunderwolves near, they may not reach comabt at all. But if you play the murderpack and two units that benefit from them like thunderwolves or even skyclaws then those units will reach combat very soon letting your wulfen charge the subsequent turn. If you go first your wulfen will charge almost for sure, if you go second and face a lot of fire power maybe not but something among them or your thunderwolves surely will.

You're right about the blackmanes, it's a quite powerful formation and wulfen don't have any synergy with it, but in any other competitive list they're an autoinclude for sure. I don't like playing the blackmanes formation because it doesn't fit my style but it's a solid alternative. Wulfen don't have synergy with the ironwolves too, but that formation in not even remotely competitive.

I play two Ironwolves based formations and both have taken top honours at tournaments, the only times I've managed it.
One is based around cover fire from Land Speeders and Rhino/Land Raider Tank Shock, the other is admittedly a balanced list with TWC and a Murderpack.
Very rarely do my Wulfen see actual combat and the other Space Wolf players say likewise, in my Ironwolves list that does have them the TWC, Sky Guard and Heralds of the Great Wolf are usually a step ahead killing everything before the Wulfen arrive and moving on.
In two days and six games my Wulfen made melee twice.
Once when I played Necrons and the Wraiths just refused to die until the Wulfen caught the Spider, the other against Tau when I left the Wulfen behind and my opponent deepstruck Crisis Suits in an attempt at linebreaker, dice didn't go his way, game continued and the Wulfen mutilated them.

• great unit, try to include them.
• utilize thier buff.
• give them a turn 2 charge.

Awesome stuff, thank you.

Final question please: of survivability.

- it is stated often here of multiple units being used, so that maybe 1 can reach CC - their buff and diversion being already valuable...
...could not a unit be given Invisibility, and it itself alone find CC and save some 250pts by instead including a different unit (like say Tiggy Conclave)?

Or am I amiss on this... thank you kindly

MekLeN wrote:
• great unit, try to include them.
• utilize thier buff.
• give them a turn 2 charge.

Awesome stuff, thank you.

Final question please: of survivability.

- it is stated often here of multiple units being used, so that maybe 1 can reach CC - their buff and diversion being already valuable...
...could not a unit be given Invisibility, and it itself alone find CC and save some 250pts by instead including a different unit (like say Tiggy Conclave)?

Or am I amiss on this... thank you kindly

Honestly, I had to look up Tiggy.
Probably because he's an Ultra Smurf that counts against him on principle alone - that aside he doesn't have a mount or bounding lope which means he'd slow down even the Wulfen.

It's better having many more wulfen than a single squad and some psyker to make them invisible. Same cost, probably same survivability, but way more killy. Most of the times footslogging wulfen arrive in close combat anyway. Of course if they're the only priority target there are high chances to be wiped out in turn 1-2 by shooting, but the murderpack and other 2-3 fast units would surely arrive in close combat without problems.

 Blackie wrote:
It's better having many more wulfen than a single squad and some psyker to make them invisible. Same cost, probably same survivability, but way more killy. Most of the times footslogging wulfen arrive in close combat anyway. Of course if they're the only priority target there are high chances to be wiped out in turn 1-2 by shooting, but the murderpack and other 2-3 fast units would surely arrive in close combat without problems.

He's got a point, 150 points for another squad of Wulfen, 175 for Tigurius plus whatever Ultrasmurf troops you have to bring along to bring him.
If you put them under the Murderpack banner the Curse of the Wulfen chart gets better too.
1- Predatory Pounce
2-3 - Bestial Swiftness
4 - Reckless Ferocity
5-6 - Alpha Hunters
It's now really unlucky if you don't get the first turn charge.