AvP The Hunt Begins 2E Pre-Order ... KS backers still waiting for 1E rewards ..

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**Grot 6**

Smellingsalts wrote:
I feel for all you guys that got screwed by Prodos. It is obvious that they must be having financial problems. I do think that this second edition is a good thing though. Right now Ninja Division is selling AVP 2nd edition, so I don't know if they just have the rights to distribute it, or it is a collaboration, or if they just own Prodos outright. I hope it is a sign of things to come.

Don't count on it. Like has been suggested- Avoid them at all costs. As of now, it is a Nemesis Plot about the inner workings of Prodos/ Ninja Division/Name of the Month shell company here. They go through "Company names" like you go through socks at this point.

**overtyrant**

Grot 6 wrote:
Smellingsalts wrote:
I feel for all you guys that got screwed by Prodos. It is obvious that they must be having financial problems. I do think that this second edition is a good thing though. Right now Ninja Division is selling AVP 2nd edition, so I don't know if they just have the rights to distribute it, or it is a collaboration, or if they just own Prodos outright. I hope it is a sign of things to come.

Don't count on it. Like has been suggested- Avoid them at all costs. As of now, it is a Nemesis Plot about the inner workings of Prodos/ Ninja Division/Name of the Month shell company here. They go through "Company names" like you go through socks at this point.

I thought Ninja Division were part of Soda Pop Miniatures?

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

They are,

and Soda Pop are the US distributor for Prodos which is why they're selling the AvP stuff (and will presumably be selling Load etc when it hits general release)

**CptJake**

Sining wrote:
So...you've never had something break in transit to you before? I've ordered stuff from puppetswar before and I received it broken in the package, should I blame them for making products with materials that can't stand up to shipping to customers as well? Mantic as well.

I mean, they advertise it as Resin and you are getting resin. And as far as I know, they're replacing the parts that are broken.

Sounds like you're just complaining for the sound of complaining

Really?

Here is what they are advertising on their web shop:

MORE INFO

This is Pre-Order - shipping starts 17th of March.

In the darkness of uncharted space aboard the crippled colony vessel "USCSS Theseus" there is nowhere to hide, nowhere to run, and in space, everyone will hear you scream!

“The Hunt Begins” Is a fast-paced, claustrophobic, “express elevator to hell” Miniature game of combat between three of the most dangerous races in the galaxy.
Join the ranks of the brave men and women of the US Colonial Marines and arm yourself with state-of-the-art weaponry or take command of the elite cadre of Predators, an alien race of hunters that seek the finest prey to stalk, hunt, and eliminate. The darkness holds more horrors than these two adversaries… The Xenomorphs, one of the deadliest of all known alien species with the potential to destroy and eradicate all sentient life.

“The Hunt Begins” offers two challenging game modes, which can be played by one or more players. The first of which is Competitive, in which all races battle against one another in mission and objective based combat. The second is Cooperative: A fragile alliance has been drawn between the Marines and the Predators, neither of which can survive alone against the Alien threat.

The motion tracker is off the scale, The prey is approaching, and a Queen seeks fresh hosts to birth her children!

Only YOU can decide who survives the USCSS Theseus!

Second Edition features:
REDESIGNED MINIATURES

All models have received fresh design and looks. Characters are more dynamic now and we are introducing built-in terrain bases as well.

IMPROVED RULESET

Second Edition of AVP contains all the patches and erratas we have collected over last year of testing and collecting feedback.

THE LAST STAND MODE

You can play with your fiends in cooperative way using The Last Stand Mode from First Edition. Aim of the game is simple - destroy Spawning Points of Xenomorphs, while Horde of Aliens is trying to do what they do best. Horde is controlled by The Game, while your brave Marines Squad or Predator Pack are controlled by players

PACKAGING

AVP Second Edition is now in different box, in a square shape, instead of rectangular one. It will fit stacks of your favorite board games perfectly and it's much easier to handle now.

MINIATURES ARE UNICAST NOW

Biggest improvement has been done with models - you can place them on board straight from the box! No assembling required, no gluing, no cutters - just open a game and play!

PROTECTIVE FOAM INSERT FOR MODELS

After you finish playing, you can assembly the game and put models back into the box without any risk of damaging them. All this thanks to protective foam we have used for miniatures.

REVAMPED ARTWORK

We have spent a lot of time improving our assets, which results in new design of tiles, we are using for a game.

Models:
- 10 Infant Aliens
- 5 Stalker Aliens
- 3 Predators
- 5 Colonial Marines

Dice: 3 D20 Dice

Cards:
- 2 Alien Stat Cards
- 3 Predator Stat Cards
- 5 Colonial Marine Stat Card
- 20 Environmental Cards
- 20 Mission Cards
- 60 Strategy Cards (20 for each Faction)

Board game Tiles:
- 14 Straight Corridors
- 12 Crossroads
- 8 T-Shape
- 8 L-Shape
- 12 Dead-end
- 12 Air Vent Tiles
- 5 Rooms (Escape Pod / Laboratory, Armoury, Bridge, Hibernation Room and Engine Room)

Other Peripherals:
- 116 Wound, Ping!, Activated, Sentry, Hide and Objective Tokens
- 12 Door Tiles

REVIEWS

No customer reviews for the moment.

http://shop.prodosgames.com/home/291-avp-the-hunt-begins-second-edition.html

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, can you point out where they state the figures are resin? All I can see is they are Unicast, and that the foam tray protects them. Ask folks who play board games what their interpretation of that is gonna be, and how they'll feel when they get a handful of broken figures and worry about the long term durability of the figures as board game pieces.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And again, GOOD figure design would mitigate against material issues. Alternatively, better material choice would mitigate against breakage.

As for complaining, no. I'm just pointing out Jarek and crew have delivered broken figs, and it seems relatively common among folks who got LOAD and AvP 2nd ed judging by posts on BGG. I had originally posted I heard folks were getting busted figures, and when asked I provided the source for that. To me to seems pretty evident that between design and material, Jarek and crew have an issue. Knowing they've used the excuse of cash flow problems to avoid sending KS backers their goods, I pointed out that these self inflicted errors are going to cost them. When single piece castings made for board games don't stand up well to shipping, there is a problem (ask the board game community). This is not complaining, it is pointing out evidence based opinion. If another company sends out a broken figure, it does nothing to detract from my point

**ced1106**

My guess is that Prodos is may sometimes be pushing the Unicast technology with miniatures that cannot be made with conventional plastic (usually because of undercuts). While this means greater detail than plastic, it can also mean miniatures with sculpts that haven't been test post-production, such as thin swords and staves.

Prodos *does* have a history of poorer QA, such as not replacing the molds as they wear out. However, I haven't read posts on BGG about such issues. Here's a comment by a small company Mr. Lee's Mini's from May 2016. I haven't read anything that said that Prodos' QA has improved or gotten worse, so if anyone has such a posting, please post! : https://quirkworthy.com/2016/05/05/casting-cost-falls/

**Sining**

CptJake wrote:
Sining wrote:
So...you've never had something break in transit to you before? I've ordered stuff from puppetswar before and I received it broken in the package, should I blame them for making products with materials that can't stand up to shipping to customers as well? Mantic as well.

I mean, they advertise it as Resin and you are getting resin. And as far as I know, they're replacing the parts that are broken.

Sounds like you're just complaining for the sound of complaining

Really?

Here is what they are advertising on their web shop:

MORE INFO

This is Pre-Order - shipping starts 17th of March.

In the darkness of uncharted space aboard the crippled colony vessel "USCSS Theseus" there is nowhere to hide, nowhere to run, and in space, everyone will hear you scream!

“The Hunt Begins” Is a fast-paced, claustrophobic, “express elevator to hell” Miniature game of combat between three of the most dangerous races in the galaxy.
Join the ranks of the brave men and women of the US Colonial Marines and arm yourself with state-of-the-art weaponry or take command of the elite cadre of Predators, an alien race of hunters that seek the finest prey to stalk, hunt, and eliminate. The darkness holds more horrors than these two adversaries… The Xenomorphs, one of the deadliest of all known alien species with the potential to destroy and eradicate all sentient life.

“The Hunt Begins” offers two challenging game modes, which can be played by one or more players. The first of which is Competitive, in which all races battle against one another in mission and objective based combat. The second is Cooperative: A fragile alliance has been drawn between the Marines and the Predators, neither of which can survive alone against the Alien threat.

The motion tracker is off the scale, The prey is approaching, and a Queen seeks fresh hosts to birth her children!

Only YOU can decide who survives the USCSS Theseus!

Second Edition features:
REDESIGNED MINIATURES

All models have received fresh design and looks. Characters are more dynamic now and we are introducing built-in terrain bases as well.

IMPROVED RULESET

Second Edition of AVP contains all the patches and erratas we have collected over last year of testing and collecting feedback.

THE LAST STAND MODE

You can play with your fiends in cooperative way using The Last Stand Mode from First Edition. Aim of the game is simple - destroy Spawning Points of Xenomorphs, while Horde of Aliens is trying to do what they do best. Horde is controlled by The Game, while your brave Marines Squad or Predator Pack are controlled by players

PACKAGING

AVP Second Edition is now in different box, in a square shape, instead of rectangular one. It will fit stacks of your favorite board games perfectly and it's much easier to handle now.

MINIATURES ARE UNICAST NOW

Biggest improvement has been done with models - you can place them on board straight from the box! No assembling required, no gluing, no cutters - just open a game and play!

PROTECTIVE FOAM INSERT FOR MODELS

After you finish playing, you can assembly the game and put models back into the box without any risk of damaging them. All this thanks to protective foam we have used for miniatures.

REVAMPED ARTWORK

We have spent a lot of time improving our assets, which results in new design of tiles, we are using for a game.

Models:
- 10 Infant Aliens
- 5 Stalker Aliens
- 3 Predators
- 5 Colonial Marines

Dice: 3 D20 Dice

Cards:
- 2 Alien Stat Cards
- 3 Predator Stat Cards
- 5 Colonial Marine Stat Card
- 20 Environmental Cards
- 20 Mission Cards
- 60 Strategy Cards (20 for each Faction)

Board game Tiles:
- 14 Straight Corridors
- 12 Crossroads
- 8 T-Shape
- 8 L-Shape
- 12 Dead-end
- 12 Air Vent Tiles
- 5 Rooms (Escape Pod / Laboratory, Armoury, Bridge, Hibernation Room and Engine Room)

Other Peripherals:
- 116 Wound, Ping!, Activated, Sentry, Hide and Objective Tokens
- 12 Door Tiles

REVIEWS

No customer reviews for the moment.

http://shop.prodosgames.com/home/291-avp-the-hunt-begins-second-edition.html

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, can you point out where they state the figures are resin? All I can see is they are Unicast, and that the foam tray protects them. Ask folks who play board games what their interpretation of that is gonna be, and how they'll feel when they get a handful of broken figures and worry about the long term durability of the figures as board game pieces.

If you want to be pedantic, I'd point out they only state the figures are redesigned and not in a new material. So...what was the original AVP in then?

And again, GOOD figure design would mitigate against material issues. Alternatively, better material choice would mitigate against breakage.

As for complaining, no. I'm just pointing out Jarek and crew have delivered broken figs, and it seems relatively common among folks who got LOAD and AvP 2nd ed judging by posts on BGG. I had originally posted I heard folks were getting busted figures, and when asked I provided the source for that. To me to seems pretty evident that between design and material, Jarek and crew have an issue. Knowing they've used the excuse of cash flow problems to avoid sending KS backers their goods, I pointed out that these self inflicted errors are going to cost them. When single piece castings made for board games don't stand up well to shipping, there is a problem (ask the board game community). This is not complaining, it is pointing out evidence based opinion. If another company sends out a broken figure, it does nothing to detract from my point

I'm pointing out that resin figures do break in transit. It's not some conspiracy by Prodos to purposely deliver resin figures broken and then replace them. As for alternative material choice, Prodos does resin. I don't think it even does anything else. Are you suggesting they use even more capital then to start up new manufacturing lines?

Would better design help? Yes, if you want to get super thick pole arms and rifles stocks. But even then, it's not 100% certain they won't break in the mail. I mean, if you've got some super miraculous method to ensure you 100% never get broken resin miniatures in the mail, you should share it with the rest of the world.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
To clarify, I'm not saying anything about whether Prodos has poor QC or whether they deliver or not. But when you're blaming them specifically for receiving broken resin figures when it's probably a transport issue (unless you think they're sending you broken resin figures on purpose), then I think you're just looking to complain.

**Grot 6**

It's not a question of the product quality- it is a question of the Prodos /Archeon /Whatever the company name of the week is. They have an absolutely GAK poor performance model of a business plan. It might be business as usual in Poland, but in the rest of the world, the practice of lies, doublespeak, diffusion and doubletalk is frowned upon.

The fact that people are still out on a limb after all this time is gak. That "Prodos" stoops to act like that everyone else is unreasonable for asking them to follow through with a KS that they funded, then pulled so they didn't have to fulfill the TOS for the project, then get caught in lies and doubletalk over the FOX product, and the unacceptable badmouthing of FOX in a self imposed "Contriversy" over something that by all rights should be jumping off of the shelves.

We are talking a tabletop AVP game. It's not rocket science, its the rule of the 7 P's.

The figures are top notch, the service and logistics is bottom feeder.