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This here is a first draft of a Renegade Deathwatch supplement for CSM, nothing too over the top: changed the names of a lot of things, changed the way that some of the Weapons work/what special rules do, added some different rules than what the Deathwatch have/removed some of the Deathwatch rules and I've made some different Artifacts.

The emphasis was really on anti Xenos so I've tried to model the supplement around Chaos Space Marines who had faught in the Great Crusade and, despite their new hatred for the Imperium, continue to fight the Aliens of the Galaxy because nothing can overcome their deep seaded Xenophobia.

I've done a few other rules for individual models (see Doomrider and cult Chaos Knights) but this is the first time I've attempted something close to an actual army, so let me know what you think: should I change some of the rules, change the points cost, add some new stuff in, take some stuff out, improve on the little fluff descriptions, etc.

Thanks!

Edit: Scroll down for updated version.

The Tyranid relic is pretty devestating. Take that against a couple of Carnifexes and you don't even need to attack them since they'll just start munching each other. I'd remove that all together.

Also, apart from the relics it's not very interesting, just a renamed Deathwatch Codex. Put some more variation, more uniqueness into it.

 Valkyrie wrote:
The Tyranid relic is pretty devestating. Take that against a couple of Carnifexes and you don't even need to attack them since they'll just start munching each other. I'd remove that all together.

Also, apart from the relics it's not very interesting, just a renamed Deathwatch Codex. Put some more variation, more uniqueness into it.

Yes, I was wavering on that artifact but I wanted to have an artifact for each of the Xenos factions and couldn't think of anything that really fit.

What about reduce enemy attacks by 1 in base contact, for Tyranids enemy models in 3"? It'll still be nasty for swarms but not as bad, especially given the usual 3 attacks on the charge.

I'm paranoid so I'm just wondering if it was possible to do a copy-paste here instead of clicking the link

So, I wasn't clear when I read through the rules, but it seems like the Chosen troops have access to Special Issue Ammo, right? Or am I wrong on that? Because if not, I can't find when or where people are given access to buy it, but if they can, then they're drastically undercosted.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:I'm paranoid so I'm just wondering if it was possible to do a copy-paste here instead of clicking the link

The document is a bit big to copy and paste here, but don't worry: it's only a word document.

Waaaghpower wrote:So, I wasn't clear when I read through the rules, but it seems like the Chosen troops have access to Special Issue Ammo, right? Or am I wrong on that? Because if not, I can't find when or where people are given access to buy it, but if they can, then they're drastically undercosted.

All weapons with bolter ammo in this detachment may instead use special ammo. The reason why they aren't priced as highly as normal Deathwatch is because they don't have ATSKNF. Do you think I should yp the price anyway?

Let's see, going from the top.

1.Army-wide Rules: Having squads where individual models can purchase shared special rules (Steath, Tank Hunters, etc) is absolutely too powerful. 2.Warlord Traits: A weapon can't have Tank Hunter. Also Tank Hunter as a rule is usually paired with Monster Hunter rather than Shred. 3.Warlord Traits: When do you pick the enemy unit? Can it be a unit not on the table? 4.Warlord Traits: 'Activate night vision' means nothing. 5.Warlord Traits: What is the range and type of an orbital blast? Does it scatter without regard to BS? 6.Artifacts: Why does the Eldar artifact double strength? Wounding T3 models is not usually an issue? 7.Artifacts: Why does the Ork ranged weapon get boosted during Waaaghs? Usually that means the orks are locked in combat. 8.Artifacts: Why does the Devourer work off of Initiative? Usually Tyranids have excellent Initiative. 9.Artifacts: There is no Necron artifact. 10.Veterans: You need to define 'Xenos Factions'. 11.Daemon Armor: Why does this add the Daemon USR? 12.The Alium: Probably too strong a debuff. 13.Spear of the Tetrad: Awkward stapling a bunch of bonuses to a weapon. Just add them all to the lord and be done with it. 14.Bolts of Change: On a 4+ [i]what[/i]? 15:Rounds of Excess: On any wound, or an Unsaved wound? Does this affect models or units? 16:Xenophage Shotgun: Template needs a RoF. 17:Heavy Bolter: Template needs a RoF. 18:Caedes Cannon: Absolutely too cheap at 20 points. 19:Caedes Cannon: Needs 3 separate profiles. 20:Daemon Maul: Why is this S10 instead of Sx2? 21:Daemon Maul: Decapitating Blow isn't defined. 22:Daemon Maul: Mauls are not known for decapitation.

 raverrn wrote:
Let's see, going from the top.

1.Army-wide Rules: Having squads where individual models can purchase shared special rules (Steath, Tank Hunters, etc) is absolutely too powerful.

I only added it in because I thought it might be a nice fluffy addition but I can definitely see why it's OP.

2.Warlord Traits: A weapon can't have Tank Hunter. Also Tank Hunter as a rule is usually paired with Monster Hunter rather than Shred.

Should I just change it to the Warlord gains Tank hunter + Monster hunter?

3.Warlord Traits: When do you pick the enemy unit? Can it be a unit not on the table?

I would say before deployement, pick an enemy unit.

4.Warlord Traits: 'Activate night vision' means nothing.

Sorry, that should be Nigth fighting.

5.Warlord Traits: What is the range and type of an orbital blast? Does it scatter without regard to BS?

Sorry, for some reason I thought orbital strikes were defined somewhere in the BRB. It is range infinite, barrage.

6.Artifacts: Why does the Eldar artifact double strength? Wounding T3 models is not usually an issue?

What about Wraith constructs and vehicles? also 2xS helps with instant death.

7.Artifacts: Why does the Ork ranged weapon get boosted during Waaaghs? Usually that means the orks are locked in combat.

It can help during Overwatch, also this profile lasts for the rest of the game.

8.Artifacts: Why does the Devourer work off of Initiative? Usually Tyranids have excellent Initiative.

I thought about doing it off of Leadership but thought Synapse might completely null the artifact.

9.Artifacts: There is no Necron artifact.

That is an oversight, I'll see if I can come up with one.

10.Veterans: You need to define 'Xenos Factions'.

All none Imperium or chaos factions.

11.Daemon Armor: Why does this add the Daemon USR?

Because it is Daemonic armour.

12.The Alium: Probably too strong a debuff.

It is only on a 5+ and the range isn't too great.

13.Spear of the Tetrad: Awkward stapling a bunch of bonuses to a weapon. Just add them all to the lord and be done with it.

It is a spear empowered by the 4 chaos gods, each gives the user part of their power.

14.Bolts of Change: On a 4+ what?

You roll to wound as normal, then roll a d6 and on a 4+ ignores invulnerable saves. Not really too powerful seeing as though it is S4 Ap5.

15:Rounds of Excess: On any wound, or an Unsaved wound? Does this affect models or units?

Should be on an unsaved wound, difficult terrain always affects the whole unit.

16:Xenophage Shotgun: Template needs a RoF.

assault 1

17:Heavy Bolter: Template needs a RoF.

assault 1

18:Caedes Cannon: Absolutely too cheap at 20 points.

Sorry, should be 25pts

19:Caedes Cannon: Needs 3 separate profiles.

That is the profile used in Deathwatch.

20aemon Maul: Why is this S10 instead of Sx2?

That is the Heavy thunder hammer profile.

21aemon Maul: Decapitating Blow isn't defined.

To wound rolls of 6s are instant death.

22aemon Maul: Mauls are not known for decapitation.

Neither are Hammers but that's the profile.

Thanks for the feed back, I'll change it when I get the chance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edited version is up.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:I'm paranoid so I'm just wondering if it was possible to do a copy-paste here instead of clicking the link

The document is a bit big to copy and paste here, but don't worry: it's only a word document.

Waaaghpower wrote:So, I wasn't clear when I read through the rules, but it seems like the Chosen troops have access to Special Issue Ammo, right? Or am I wrong on that? Because if not, I can't find when or where people are given access to buy it, but if they can, then they're drastically undercosted.

All weapons with bolter ammo in this detachment may instead use special ammo. The reason why they aren't priced as highly as normal Deathwatch is because they don't have ATSKNF. Do you think I should yp the price anyway?

Absolutely, because your version of special issue ammo is far, far better than that of regular Deathwatch.
You see, you made them all Assault weapons. Normally, if you want your Deathwatch to have an Assault weapon, they either need to buy an expensive heavy weapon, or swap out their gun for the much weaker Shotgun. For some reason, though, you made the Shotgun cost ten points, made the regular Boltgun an assault weapon, and didn't really take much away - The AP4 version is just a 'safe' version of the AP3 fire, so the only thing missing here is an Ignores Cover variety, and in exchange you get an option that's aces for killing Daemons and the like.

You also gave the Chosen a Bolt Pistol and Close Combat weapon, while actual DW Vets only get the Close Combat weapon and have no option to take Bolt Pistols. So, for 4 points less than regular Deathwatch veterans, your version can shoot with equal fervor, then charge and have more attacks than regular DW veterans can ever hope to get. Or they can spend 3 points, and still be a point cheaper, but have twin-linked on all of their shooting.


You also inexplicably made the combi-heavy-bolter/flamer thing a Heavy weapon for some reason. And why does your Power Fist cost the same as a Power Weapon? The Power Fist is such a superior choice, it costs more in every other codex where it is available. What gives?


I was also going to complain about how the Lord of the Watchtower was also blatantly superior to a Watch Master despite being cheaper, then I noticed that the Lord of the Watchtower only had three wounds. Why, exactly? I mean, for his cost that's fine I guess, but it's weird that he's the equivalent Watch Master but is actually much weaker without the Chaos buffs.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:I'm paranoid so I'm just wondering if it was possible to do a copy-paste here instead of clicking the link

The document is a bit big to copy and paste here, but don't worry: it's only a word document.

Waaaghpower wrote:So, I wasn't clear when I read through the rules, but it seems like the Chosen troops have access to Special Issue Ammo, right? Or am I wrong on that? Because if not, I can't find when or where people are given access to buy it, but if they can, then they're drastically undercosted.

All weapons with bolter ammo in this detachment may instead use special ammo. The reason why they aren't priced as highly as normal Deathwatch is because they don't have ATSKNF. Do you think I should yp the price anyway?

Absolutely, because your version of special issue ammo is far, far better than that of regular Deathwatch.
You see, you made them all Assault weapons. Normally, if you want your Deathwatch to have an Assault weapon, they either need to buy an expensive heavy weapon, or swap out their gun for the much weaker Shotgun. For some reason, though, you made the Shotgun cost ten points, made the regular Boltgun an assault weapon, and didn't really take much away - The AP4 version is just a 'safe' version of the AP3 fire, so the only thing missing here is an Ignores Cover variety, and in exchange you get an option that's aces for killing Daemons and the like.

You also gave the Chosen a Bolt Pistol and Close Combat weapon, while actual DW Vets only get the Close Combat weapon and have no option to take Bolt Pistols. So, for 4 points less than regular Deathwatch veterans, your version can shoot with equal fervor, then charge and have more attacks than regular DW veterans can ever hope to get. Or they can spend 3 points, and still be a point cheaper, but have twin-linked on all of their shooting.


You also inexplicably made the combi-heavy-bolter/flamer thing a Heavy weapon for some reason. And why does your Power Fist cost the same as a Power Weapon? The Power Fist is such a superior choice, it costs more in every other codex where it is available. What gives?


I was also going to complain about how the Lord of the Watchtower was also blatantly superior to a Watch Master despite being cheaper, then I noticed that the Lord of the Watchtower only had three wounds. Why, exactly? I mean, for his cost that's fine I guess, but it's weird that he's the equivalent Watch Master but is actually much weaker without the Chaos buffs.

A lot of that stuff is a case of typos and getting confused reading between CSM and DW.
I have increased the price of several things and fixed some of the issues you brought up.