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Bobthehero wrote: Well their numbers are low, their attacks are weak and slow, it was a way to make then not completely fold when they got in melee.
Deathwatch don't even have rifle, pistol and ccw, and they have a smaller model count.
Melee shouldn't be these guys' proficiency. They're ranged fighters primarily, and I quote from OP:
"Unlike Space Marines, this army isn't resilient and powerful in close combat"
kirotheavenger wrote: Deadeye shot warlord trait seems a bit... random. Surely that should give something like rending, precision shots, or preferred enemy.
Army detachments tend to sacrifice ObSec for their chosen benefits (or at least my Blood Angels or Flesh Tearers do). I don't see why your's shouldn't.
Why do all scions start with a HS-lasgun, HS-laspistol AND a CCW? I don't think they should get a CCW, you said yourself these aren't melee troops, even astartes don't get those.
Secondly, when you say they may buy grenades, you should say that the UNIT may purchase grenades at X points PER MODEL. Otherwise you would just give one guy the grenades for the whole squad.
Since they are so low in number, about as numerous as Space Marines and are not nearly as good in close combat, they needed a little buff to survive charges from weak close combat units. Plus, Chaos Space Marines do have this option and frankly so should Space Marines.
Also your Ignis Scions are paying 2pts per model to gain conceal, +1 attack and conceal.
That is a lot for very cheap.
And why do all Scions get stealth? Oh and currently you have every Command Scion model equipped with a Clarion Vox Net, might want to specify it's only one of them.
Also I couldn't see what conceal did anywhere.
Scion get stealth since they are stealth specialist. Preety much all scout unit in the game have the Stealth and/or Shrouded special rule. Since its an entire army of scouts, all their units have Stealth, except Commissars.
Your Victory Prime is just a supped up cheaper Vulture.
Significantly so.
You've done the same thing with the Venators. Why?
I don't know the original price of the Venator and neither the stats or the price of the Vulture. I priced them accordingly to my estimation considering the rules I gave them in relation to what you can see in the 7th eddition of 40K. How would you price the Venator Prime and the Victory Prime?
Also you need to specify things better.
Things like the self repair system, when do you roll that dice? How many dice can you roll at once? Can you roll that dice again?
The Shield Generator is basically a skimmer, but I wasn't sure how it would interract with its slow speed and movement restriction.
In the BRB Extra Armour counts any crew stunned results as crew shaken instead.
Your HS-snipers don't have the sniper special rule?
Why are giant slayer missiles A: called Giant slayer (they're anti-vehicle) and B: blast?
The power spear say it's S:-/+1 AP:4/3 why?
I used the older version of it for I thought it was a bit better. I might change a little bit the name to avoid confusion like enhance armor or something like that.
I think that's all my thoughts for the first pass I know I'm taking the position of the naysayer, but those played a vital role in the kings courts
I wish I could help you to tighten up your grammar a little, if you like I could just copy/paste the whole thing, then you copy/paste it back with my corrections
English not being my first language, I will take any help you offer me to improve the grammar of my text and rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/05 20:08:33
Bobthehero wrote: 3 Str 3 Attack at I3-4 is not resilient or powerful.
Comparative points of a basic Deathwatch Marine (WS4, S4, I4, A2 for 22 points) against a points equivalent of basic Scions (WS3, S3, I3, A2 x2).
Considering And They Shall Know No Fear, the higher Ld, T and Sv of the Deathwatch Marine, the Scions, even with an extra close combat weapon are weaker and more fragile.
kirotheavenger wrote: Deadeye shot warlord trait seems a bit... random. Surely that should give something like rending, precision shots, or preferred enemy.
Army detachments tend to sacrifice ObSec for their chosen benefits (or at least my Blood Angels or Flesh Tearers do). I don't see why your's shouldn't.
Why do all scions start with a HS-lasgun, HS-laspistol AND a CCW? I don't think they should get a CCW, you said yourself these aren't melee troops, even astartes don't get those.
Secondly, when you say they may buy grenades, you should say that the UNIT may purchase grenades at X points PER MODEL. Otherwise you would just give one guy the grenades for the whole squad.
Since they are so low in number, about as numerous as Space Marines and are not nearly as good in close combat, they needed a little buff to survive charges from weak close combat units. Plus, Chaos Space Marines do have this option and frankly so should Space Marines.
But a Space Marine is meant to be an all rounder. Your Scions are not. They are designed to fight close, but not melee close - it's a design mechanic. They have to play riskily close, but will relying on overwhelming firepower to do so.
I think they could have the option to buy a CCW for 1 or 2 points, but not as base.
Also your Ignis Scions are paying 2pts per model to gain conceal, +1 attack and conceal.
That is a lot for very cheap.
And why do all Scions get stealth? Oh and currently you have every Command Scion model equipped with a Clarion Vox Net, might want to specify it's only one of them.
Also I couldn't see what conceal did anywhere.
Scion get stealth since they are stealth specialist. Preety much all scout unit in the game have the Stealth and/or Shrouded special rule. Since its an entire army of scouts, all their units have Stealth, except Commissars.
See, I thought Scions were more shock troopers, using rapid and aggressive combat tactics employed via deep strike and flyers to storm heavily defended positions, hence the short ranged weapons and heavy armour. Not as scouts. If Scions were stealth specialists, why would they have such heavy armour for a guardsman, and have such aggressive and short ranged weaponry?
And not all scout units in the game have the Stealth or Shrouded. Take, for example, Space Marine Scouts, or Scout Sentinels, or Tau Pathfinders. None of them have default Stealth or Shrouded.
Bobthehero wrote: 3 Str 3 Attack at I3-4 is not resilient or powerful.
Comparative points of a basic Deathwatch Marine (WS4, S4, I4, A2 for 22 points) against a points equivalent of basic Scions (WS3, S3, I3, A2 x2).
Considering And They Shall Know No Fear, the higher Ld, T and Sv of the Deathwatch Marine, the Scions, even with an extra close combat weapon are weaker and more fragile.
The Space Marine is meant to be the all-rounder. The Scion is not supposed to be massively more competent in CC than a Guardsman Veteran, as per your OP.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/05 20:17:31
I would agree with others, you said yourself Scions aren't meant to be melee guys, they should act it.
As Smudge said, Scions are shock troopers. Not stealth troopers.
If you want to see the Venator/Vulture rules for yourself check out the Taros Campaign.
Your shield generator definitely should be a skimmer, it's basically your grav rules by another name.
But as a point, that shield generator would be the first Guard skimmer ever, and to my knowledge the first heavy skimmer in the game. To my mind skimmers are fast, nimble things. Tracks are heavy, slow things.
kirotheavenger wrote: I would agree with others, you said yourself Scions aren't meant to be melee guys, they should act it.
As Smudge said, Scions are shock troopers. Not stealth troopers.
They are evidently both considering how they are used on the board and according to their own codex. Their Stealth Drop behind enemy lines are their most famous actions. They drop, creep and shoot you to death.
kirotheavenger wrote: I would agree with others, you said yourself Scions aren't meant to be melee guys, they should act it.
As Smudge said, Scions are shock troopers. Not stealth troopers.
They are evidently both considering how they are used on the board and according to their own codex. Their Stealth Drop behind enemy lines are their most famous actions. They drop, creep and shoot you to death.
But then consider Space Marine Scouts, whom cut out the drop in and just go all sneaky beaky like. They don't have stealth.
If you wanted to represent that, take infiltrate. Not scout though, Scions are not the outriders of their force, they are their force.
Or maybe, instead of you cramming everything Scions into into their core rules, give them formations for it.
[I'm gak at naming things] but you could like an infiltration specialist force. Confers infiltrate and scout, has maybe a few sniper teams, a few Scion teams. Probably should remove their deep strike in this formation.
I believe the current Tempestus codex has a formation for an aerial assault group.
That kind of thing.
kirotheavenger wrote: I would agree with others, you said yourself Scions aren't meant to be melee guys, they should act it.
As Smudge said, Scions are shock troopers. Not stealth troopers.
They are evidently both considering how they are used on the board and according to their own codex. Their Stealth Drop behind enemy lines are their most famous actions. They drop, creep and shoot you to death.
But then consider Space Marine Scouts, whom cut out the drop in and just go all sneaky beaky like. They don't have stealth.
If you wanted to represent that, take infiltrate. Not scout though, Scions are not the outriders of their force, they are their force.
Or maybe, instead of you cramming everything Scions into into their core rules, give them formations for it.
[I'm gak at naming things] but you could like an infiltration specialist force. Confers infiltrate and scout, has maybe a few sniper teams, a few Scion teams. Probably should remove their deep strike in this formation.
I believe the current Tempestus codex has a formation for an aerial assault group.
That kind of thing.
Also I PMed you
I like the idea of the set formations. That could give more specialised forces of Scions, such as stealth groups and such.
As it is, I see no reason that base Scions should get stealth and Marine Scouts, Pathfinders, and Scout Sentinels shouldn't.
As a relatively rare player of a Millitarum Tempestus army, I am a huge fan of a fast and precise army of "normal" human beings. As of now, the Millitarum Tempestus codex is merely an expansion or an experiment to see if such an army could be viable. While Scions themselves are decent units with very nice models, the army as a whole suffers from a ridiculously small unit selection which severely limits its capacity to operate beyond the 750 pts mark. This codex is an attempt at making what a fully supported and updated Millitarum Tempestus army could look like. I designed it to alleviate the rather unremarkable performance of the basic Tempestus Scions, offer them more tools to be faster and more precise than before. I wanted them to be capable of adapting to various mission objectives and enemies by relying on speed and pinpoint firepower. Unlike Space Marines, this army isn't resilient and powerful in close combat despite having a unit capable of handling itself rather nicely in that domain. Unlike regular guard, Tempestus don't have heavy tanks and, especially, heavy artillery. Unlike my own version of the Sisters of Battle who excelled against horde armies and were geared for close combat and close range firefights, Scions remain more mobile and more fragile if just as skilled. All in all, it sits nicely as a rather unique Imperial army that has more in common with Harlequins or Craftworld Eldar than anything else. The gothic aspect of the Imperium is more absent from this army which operates and feels more like a pseudo special force than anything else. This aspect allows it to stand apart further from the Sisters of Battle with whom they share the niche of elite human soldiers.
Introduction
Spoiler:
coming soon
Play Testing Notes
Spoiler:
coming soon
Special Rules
Spoiler:
Scion: The men and women of the Millitarum Tempestus were raised from early infancy to be the perfect soldiers: intelligent, skilled, brave and above all obedient to orders. All units composed entirely of Militarum Tempestus models with this Special Rule can reroll failed Leadership test for orders and can still attempt to regroup normally even when they are below 25%.
Officer: All armies rely on a chain of command and the tactical guidance of their officers to achieve victory over, sometimes, superior forces. Officers of the Millitarum Tempestus are excellent tactician and can provide great support to their troops. Any model with this special rule can issue a single order at the beginning of the movement phase to himself and his squad.
Voice of Command: Veteran officers are known for their quick thinking and their capacity to relay precise instructions to distant troops even in the harshest battlezones. In this fashion they almost appear o be in multiple places at the same time, always when the fight requires their knowledge and their experience. A model with this Special Rule can apply the Officer Special Rule to any squad with 18 inches of himself.
Precise Jump: Scions are experts in Grav-chute insertion. They are known for attacking from the sky with pinpoint accuracy despite all odds. A unit containing at least one model with this special rule scatters 1d6 less arriving via deep strike.
Summary Execution: Even the very best soldiers will fail at some point. They will be afraid or will make mistakes. Such a thing is unacceptable to the Imperium. The price of failure and weakness is too high to be tolerated. Someone will have to die to serve as a lesson to the rest. Should a unit lead by a Commissar fail a leadership test, the Commissar will execute a soldier to bolster the moral of his squad. Roll a d6 on a 2+, the controlling player chooses a member of the squad who failed the leadership test and remove it as a casualty. The test is then considered as an automatic success. On a 1, the opposing must decide the model to be removed. A commissar will never execute himself neither will he execute another commissar.
Aura of Discipline: Commissar Lords are incredible individual who are an inspiration to all who see them. All of them carry with them their own personal legends and act of insane heroism. The Stubborn special rule of the Commissar Lord and his leadership extend to all Scion units within 6 inches of the Commissar Lord and his unit. Furthermore, all unit fleeing that enter his Aura of Command automatically pass regroup tests.
Scion's Orders: Scions are incredibly discipline soldiers trained to apply a variety of tactics at their officers command and with their guidance. This allows them to surpass themselves and make their actions much more efficient than the total of their individual skills. Each model with the Officer Special Rule can choose one of the orders below to apply to himself and his squad at the beginning of the movement phase. The order, inorder to take effect, requires a successful leadership test from the targeted unit. All benefits are lost at the beginning of your next movement phase, unless the order is enacted again.
Suppressive Fire: The Scions are directed to suppress enemy advances against their position. The unit can fire overwatch with the penalty reduced by 1, thus firing at Ballistic Skill 2
Priority Target: The Scions are to concentrate their firepower and their shots on the vulnerable points of a large and dangerous target. The unit gains the Rending Special Rule on all its range weapons when targeting a vehicle, super heavy vehicle, gargantuan creature, or a monstrous creature.
Mark Your Target: The Scions are ordered to carefully aim with their main weapon before taking their shots to maximise damage at long range. The unit weapon profile for any Hot-Shot Lasguns, Hot-Shot SMGs and/or Hot-Shot Volleyguns changes for the following for all relevant weapons within the unit: Hot-Shot Lasgun: range: 30, S: X, AP: 3, Heavy 1, sniper, Hot-Shot SMG: range: 15, S: X, AP: 3, Heavy 2, sniper, Hot-Shot Volleygun: range: 36 S: 4, AP: 3. Heavy 4
Intensify Fire: The Scions are directed to fire and reload as fast as possible with no concern for ammunition preservation to dislocate an enemy formation. The unit weapons are all considered twin-linked.
Rapid Advance: The Scions are told to move as fast as possible up the battlefield to gain some advance all the while using their weapons to keep the enemy under pressure. The unit gains the Fleet Special Rule and can still fire at normal Ballistic Skill after running.
Close Assault: The Scions are told to assault the enemy in close combat to take an objective from him. The unit gain the Crusader and Furious Charge Special Rule.
Warlord Traits
Spoiler:
1) Failure isn't an Option: The warlord isn't a leader who will accept defeat or failure. He is going to fight to the bitter end no matter what. The warlord gain the fearless Special Rule.
2) Drop Trooper Specialist: The warlord is a specialist when it comes to commanding airborne attacks. His drop troopers have great precision. All units in the same formation/detachment as the warlord Precise Jump Special Rule. If they already have it, they don't scatter at all when deep striking.
3) Inspired Tactician: The warlord is an incredible tactician. He seems to be capable of predicting every enemy move and directs his troops to counter them. The warlord can give an extra order per turn.
4) Dead Eye Shot: The warlord is a peerless marksman. He only needs one shot to kill. The warlord ranged attacks cause Instant Death on enemy Characters.
5) Marksman instructor: The warlord has trained his troops to be above the standards in marksmanship so they can take on more difficult targets with greater confidence. All infantry units within 6' of the warlord who haven't moved during their turn can add 6' to the range of all their weapons during the shooting phase.
6) Infiltrator: The warlord relys on infiltrating units behind the enemy line to disrupt them and prevent them from moving into action against him. The enemy army suffer a -1 modifier to all their reserve rolls and you may attempt to Steal the Initiative on a 5+.
Detachment
Spoiler:
Mandatory: 1 HQ, 1 Troop, 1 Fast Attack
Optional: 1 HQ, 3 Troops, 5 Fast Attack, 2 Elites, 3 Heavy Support
Benefits: Objectived Secure on Troop choices (does not extend to dedicated transports of troop units), Reroll Warlord Traits, Alpha Strike
Alpha Strike: You may make reserve rolls for units in this faction beginning at the start of turn 1.
Formation
Tempestus Dagger
Spoiler:
The forces of the Millitarum Tempestus are precise, fast moving and stealthy. Their training and equipment makes them ideally suited for covert operations and raids. Their silent approach followed by a swift attack makes them extremely dangerous forces to tackle and devastating for the enemy moral. There is little more unnerving for a commander than to know that enemy elite troops can attack at any time. The Tempestus Dagger is the most adaptable and common combat group of the Millitarum Tempestus. It combines various talent and expertise to tackle a wide variety of enemies by focusing on the Scions strengths.
Covert Operation Units: Scions are consummate drop troopers, but also infiltrators. Should the situation not call for an aerial assault, Scions can apply their remarkable stealth doctrine to infiltrate enemy lines en mass. All units in the formation can replace their Deep Strike Special Rule for the Infiltrate Special Rule.
Ground Assault Formation
Spoiler:
Scions are known for the speed and efficiency of their ground vehicles. Their armored advances are swift and discrete and can be immensely destructive. Squads with a lot of experience in ground assaults are fast to dismount their vehicles and unleash a blinding fusillade of Hot-Shot Lasbolts. Ground Assault Formations are used frequently to establish a beach head in the enemy territory for larger drops during massive assaults. In other circumstances, they serve as outriders for Astra Millitarium Armored Brigades.
Composition: 1 full Tempestus Scion Platoon all mounted in Taurox Prime, 1-2 Squadrons of Venator Primes.
Benefits: Calculated Strike, Surgical Deployment
Calculated Strike: The entire formation can be placed in reserve at the beginning of the game. If you elect to do so, roll a single dice for the entire formation and deploy them all at the same time should the roll be a success.All units within the formation gain the outflank USR. All units possessing one must either begin the game embarked on their transport, or be embarked on their transport when they arrive from reserves.
Surgical Deployment: On the round in which they disembark, all the Tempestus Scion units count their weapon as twin-linked and pinning.
Airborne Assault Formation
Spoiler:
The sister formation of the Ground Assault Formation, the Airborne Assault Formation is used to allow a strong advance via airborne units used when the enemy lines are crumbling to cut off their retreats or prevent them from regrouping. Valkyries allow for a devastating amount of firepower to be applied on a very mobile basis and the Scion Platoons they transport have developed a certain skill for millimetric precision when it comes to jumping from their into the fray. Airborne Assault Formations are also used as reinforcements capable of relieving a massive amount of pressure and rescue sections of the battlefield which have become cut off and isolated.
Composition: 1 full Tempestus Scion Platoon all mounted on Valkyrie Prime, 1-2 Victory Primes
Low Altitude Jump Specialists: Units disembarking via the Grav Chute Insertion special rule only scatter 1d6 when doing so
Mist and Anchor
Spoiler:
coming soon
Aerial Supremacy Squadron
Spoiler:
coming soon
Hoplite Formation
Spoiler:
coming soon
HQ
Tempestor Prime
Spoiler:
The most gifted Scions are those who rise in ranks. They have shown during their training and later on the battlefield that they were not only excellent combatants, masters of their weapons, but also calm collected and intelligent. They must have shown numerous times their tactical acumen and, even more importantly, their drive to learn more about their strengths and weaknesses and that of their enemies. Tempestor Primes are the commanders of the Tempestus Scion regiments. They are the paragon of their kind: fast, precise, disciplined and intelligent. Unlike Astra Millitarum high ranking officers, they operate in the field, sharing all the dangers their soldiers pass. They are discreet and efficient leaders who use their knowledge more than their charisma to direct their troops. They operate in key squads, or even alone in dire circumstances.
Special Rules: Officer, Voice of Command, Scion, Precision Shots, Split Fire, Weapon Master, Stealth, Move Through Cover, Deep Strike, Independent Character
Weapon Master: The Tempestor Prime is a gifted soldier who knows his weapon better than his own person. He can fire twice with a weapon of his choice per round. Should he have a pair of weapons, only one of the two can fire twice since even such a gifted soldier cannot fire that fast. Furthermore, his ability to make Precision Shots is also passed down to any unit he joins.
Unit Composition: 1 (Infantry, character)
Option:
can replace his Hot-Shot Lasgun with auxiliary grenade launcher for a Twin-Linked Hot-Shot SMG for free
can replace his Hot-Shot Laspistol for a Plasma Pistol for (10 pts) or a Bolt Pistol for free
can replace his close combat weapon for a Power Weapon for (10 pts), a Power Fist for (15 pts) or a Shock Sword for (5 pts)
can take an Aer Grav-Chute for (10 pts) or a Camocloak for (10 pts)
can take a Refractor Field for (15 pts)
can take a meltacharge for (5 pts)
can take a single Tempestus Scions Heirloom
Millitarum Tempestus Commissars
Spoiler:
Commissars are feared individuals. Trained in the Scholam like their brothers and sisters of the Millitarum Tempestus and later in the Officio Prefectus academy, they are natural born leaders, charismatic individuals, talented warriors and acute tacticians. In the ranks of the Astra Millitarum, they serve as advisers and enforce discipline with an iron fist. In the Millitarum Tempestus, their role is a bit more extensive. The Astra Millitarum is forced to recognise and tolerate the military traditions and structures of the various worlds of the Imperium and the Commissars, being raised and trained by the Imperium, don't necessarily know and understand them profoundly. To avoid conflict of dogma, their role was restrained to adviser instead of officers. Scions and Commissars though, share the same doctrine and culture. Furthermore, those Commissars who gain the honor of serving as officers in a Scion regiment are the very best of their kind and will be granted the responsibility to serve as adjutants with actual command responsibility beside that of enforcing discipline. While this might make the chain of command a bit more complex and heavy, the small size of the Scion regiment and their near perfect discipline allow them to negate this potential drawback. Commissars of the Millitarum Tempestus allow and push their Scion subordinates to greater feats of courage and excellence and truly help turn the tide of a battle.
Special Rule: Scion, Stubborn, Aura of Discipline (Commissar Lord only), Officer, Voice of Command (Commissar Lord only), Deep Strike, Independent Character, Summary Execution
Unit Composition: 1 to 3 (Infantry, character)
Option:
a single Commissar in your army can be promoted to Commissar Lord for (15 pts)
can exchange the bolt pistol for a Plasma Pistol for (10 pts)
can exchange the Close Combat Weapon for a Power Weapon for (10 pts) or a Powerfist for (15 pts)
can take a Storm Bolter for (5 pts)
can take a refractor field for (15 pts)
can take a meltacharge for (5 pts)
can take a single Tempestus Scions Heirloom
Elite
Ignis Scion Squad
Spoiler:
Ignis Scions are the very best Scions. They are those who have shown early on the greatest combat aptitudes and the drive to exploit them fully. They are also the Scions with the most battle experience. Each one of them has occupied varied position prior to be promoted to an Ignis Scion squad. Since their early days, they received supplementary training and more guidance from their superior officers and trainers as to exploit their talent. Now, as Ignis Scions, they serve as elite troopers, fighting where the enemy is the strongest, supporting their comrade and getting them out of tight spot. They frequently escort their Tempestor Prime and serves as bodyguard for him the battlefield. Their vast experience of covert operation makes them masters at sabotage and infiltration should they be called to do it. Unfortunately, there is few of them and each loss of an Ignis Scion is even harder to replace than one of their brothers or sisters
Special Rule: Scion, Move Through Cover, Scout, Deep Strike
Unit Composition: 5 to 10 (infantry)
Option:
One Ignis Scion must be promoted to Ignis Tempestor for (5 pts)
The Ignis Tempestor can replace his Close Combat weapon for a Power Weapon for (10 pts), a Shock Sword for (5 pts), or a Powerfist for (15 pts)
The Ignis Tempestor can replace his Hot-Shot Laspistol for a Bolt Pistol for free, or a Plasma Pistol for (10 pts)
Up to three Ignis Scion can replace their Hot-Shot Lasgun with auxiliary grenade launcher for a Plasma Gun for (10 pts), a Meltagun for (5 pts), a Hot-Shot Volleygun for (5 pts), or a Grenade Launcher for (2 pts)
The unit may take haywire and defensive grenades (2pts per model)
A single Ignis Scion can take an Aer Guidance System for (10 pts) or a Targetter for (10 pts)
A single Ignis Scion can take a demo-charge for (10 pts) or a Meltacharge for (5 pts)
One Ignis Scion can take a Clarion Vox System Relay for (5 pts)
The squad can take a Taurox Prime or a Valkyrie Prime as a dedicated transport
Armis Scion
Spoiler:
Armis Scions are a very specialised group of soldiers. In an army that favors speed and ranged encounter, they are armed and trained for close combat. Thanks to their heavy power shield and their shock swords they have the tools to take down enemies that would normally be far too strong for a normal human being. Nevertheless, each one of them as been selected for their excellent skills in close combat, their strength and their endurance. Armis Scions mostly serves in the bloody corridor fights of ship boarding or as an anvil for the rest to operate from. Using their shield in group they can provide protection to their allies and become extremely hard to shift from a zone should the enemy underestimate them. Despite their large shields, their stealth doctrine remain good enough for them to neither slow down or betray their felloe Scions.
Special Rule: Scion, Move Through Cover, Deep Strike, Stealth, Shield Lock
Shield Lock: Armis Scions are trained to use their shield Cooperatively for defensive and offensive purpose. Should they be in base contact with one another, their armor saves improve by 1 step, gain the Counter Attack Special Rule, but they lose Stealth and Move Through Cover.
Unit Composition: 5 to 10 (Infantry)
Option:
One Armis Scion must be promoted to Arnis Tempestor for (5 pts)
All Armis Scion can exchange their Shock Sword for Power Weapon for (5 pts)
Up to two Armis Scions and/or the Armis Tempestor can exchange their Hot-Shot Laspistols for a Bolt Pistol for free, or Plasma Pistol for (10 pts)
The squad can take a Taurox Prime or a Valkyrie Prime as a dedicated transport
The core of every Scion regiment is the Tempestus Scion Platoon. Each Tempestus Scion is an expertly train soldier. They first graduated in the brutal Schola Progenium where they were mind wiped, indoctrinated to be perfectly obedient and reared to be consummate killers before being put through inhumanly difficult and sometime deadly tests. Those who succeeded, were marked as great soldiers and were not sent to the Officio Prefectus to become Commissars or to the Sisterhood are than sent to the Tempestor Academy where they spent a further 4 years training in an intensive manner in various forms of combat. They learn they peerless stealth doctrine, their renown aerial assaults and extensive survival skills. Those who illustrated themselves in battle and are set to ascend to more elite units are regrouped together in command squads led by Tempestor Secundus. They provide extra experience and protection to those officers as well as more mobile firepower to support their brothers and sisters in arm. Their cohesion and innovative tactics is frequently at the core of their numerous successes.
Command Squad
Tempestus Scion Prime: WS: 4, BS: 4, S: 3, T: 3, W: 1, I: 4, A: 1, Ld: 8, Sv: 4+ pts: 16 per model
Tempestor Secundus: WS: 4, BS: 5, S: 3, T: 3, W: 2, I: 4, A: 2 Ld: 9, Sv: 4+
equipment: Carapace Armor, Hot-Shot Lasgun, Hot-Shot Laspistol, Close Combat Weapon (Tempestor Secundus Only), Frag and Krak Grenade, Clarion Vox System (Tempestor Secundus only)
Special Rule: Scion, Move Through Cover, Stealth, Deep Strike, Officer, Voice of Command (Tempestor Secundus only)
Unit Composition: 5 (infantry)
Option:
A single Tempestus Scion Prime must be promoted to a Tempestor Secundus for (12 pts)
The Tempestor Secundus can exchange his Hot-Shot Lasgun for a Hot-Shot Lasgun with an Auxiliary Grenade Launcher for (5 pts)
The Tempestor Secundus can exchange his Hot-Shot Laspistol for a Bolt Pistol for free, or a Plasma Pistol for (10 pts)
The Tempestor Secundus can exchange his Close Combat Weapon for a Power Weapon for (10 pts), a Shock Sword for (5 pts), or a Powerfist for (15 pts)
The Tempestor Secundus can take an Aer Guidance System for (10 pts) or a Targetter for (10 pts)
The Tempestor Secundus can take a Meltacharge for (5 pts)
Any Tempestus Scion prime can exchange their Hot-shot lasguns for one of the following weapon: Plasma Gun (15 pts), Meltagun (10 pts), Grenade Launcher (5 pts), Hot-shot Volleygun (10 pts), or a flamer (5 pts)
Of those Tempestus Scion Primes not upgraded as above
One Tempestus Scion Prime can take a health kit for (10 pts)
One Tempestus Scion Prime can take a Clarion Vox System Relay for (5 pts)
One Tempestus Scion Prime can replace his Hot-Shot Lasgun for a Platoon Standard for (20 pts)
The squad can take a Taurox Prime or a Valkyrie Prime as a dedicated transport
Special Rule: Scion, Move Through Cover, Stealth, Deep Strike
Unit Composition: 5 to 10 (infantry)
Option:
A Tempestus Scion must be promoted to a Tempestor Minoris for (4 pts)
The Tempestor Minoris can exchange his Hot-Shot Lasgun for a Hot-Shot Lasgun with an Auxiliary Grenade Launcher for (5 pts)
The Tempestor Minoris can exchange his Hot-Shot Laspistol for a Bolt Pistol for free, or a Plasma Pistol for (10 pts)
The Tempestor Minoris can exchange his Close Combat Weapon for a Power Weapon for (10 pts), a Shock Sword for (5 pts), or a Powerfist for (15 pts)
The Tempestor Minoris can take an Aer Guidance System for (10 pts) or a Targeter for (10 pts)
The Tempestor Minoris can take a Meltacharge for (5 pts)
Up to two Tempestus Scions can exchange their Hot-shot lasguns for one of the following weapon: Plasma Gun (15 pts), Meltagun (10 pts), Grenade Launcher (5 pts), Hot-shot Volleygun (10 pts), or a flamer (5 pts)
One other Tempestus Scion can take a Clarion Vox System Relay for (5 pts)
The squad can take a Taurox Prime or a Valkyrie Prime as a dedicated transport
Dedicated Transport
Taurox Prime
Spoiler:
The Taurox Prime is an extremely fast, well armed and armored transport. It can cross through some of the harshest terrain without slowing down all the while carrying the firepower of a light battle tank. Its overcharged engines are both safe and reliable. Thus, the Taurox Prime can be used for extensive missions behind the enemy lines and its decent armor allows it to weather small arm fire with ease. Very few forces can boast to have such a versatile and efficient vehicle in their armory. The Scions who pilot them are experts who know their vehicle as well as a Tempestus Scion knows his rifle. They are almost fearless and will never abandon their brethren in a difficult situation. A Taurox Prime can be armed in a variety of ways to deal with infantry hordes or enemy tanks and aircraft depending on the situation.
ATV: A Taurox Prime threads and engine are designed for all sorts of terrain. It's both amphibious and can reroll failed dangerous terrain tests.
Transport Capacity: 10 Models
Access Point: One on each side and one at the rear
Fire Point: two on each side
Option:
Can replace the Taurox Light Battle Canon for a Twin-Linked Taurox Gatling Canon for (5 pts) or for a Taurox Missile Launcher for (10 pts)
Can replace the Twin-Linked Hot-Shot Volleygun for Twin-Linked Autocannon for (10 pts)
Can take upgrades from the Armory of the Progenium
Valkyrie Prime
Spoiler:
The Valkyrie Prime is a heavily armed and armored aircraft designed for air to ground combat. Its powerful engines allow it to move at high speed and gives it great mobility to avoid enemy anti-air defense and hover over the battlefield. Its numerous weapons give it an impressive firepower on an extremely mobile basis. The Valkyrie Prime are different to the standard models by their more sophisticated weapon system and by the fact that their pilots are Scions themselves who were trained to a much higher level of excellence than the navy's pilots. Their capacity to deploy in the harshest conditions squads of Scions allow the Millitarum Tempestus to field one of the fastest military forces in the galaxy. In a pinch, the Valkyrie Prime can even engage other aircraft in dogfights.
Special Rule: Flier, Hover, Transport, Grav Chute Insertion
Grav Chute Insertion: Valkyrie Prime are equipped with the necessary system to drop troops via Grav-Chute should they be flying at high altitude or high speed. Should the player want to disembark a unit in a Valkyrie who moved faster than Combat Speed or who isn't hovering, select a point over which the Valkyrie passed and place a counter there and deploy the unit using the deep strike rules. Scatter the unit normally.
Transport Capacity: 12 Models
Access Point: One at the rear
Fire Point: None
Option:
The Valkyrie Prime can exchange its Twin-Linked Hot-Shot Multilaser for a Twin-Linked Lascanon for (5 pts)
Can replace the two Hellstrike missiles for two Rocket Pods for (10 pts)
Can take two sponson mounted Heavy Bolters for (20 pts)
Can take upgrades in the Armory of the Progenium
Fast Attack
Aer Scions
Spoiler:
Aer Scions are the pinnacle of the Millitarum Tempestus forces when it comes to aerial assault. They are the men and women who have shown the most aptitudes in piloting a Grav-Chute in any circumstances and a talent for short range firefights. To assist them, they are equipped with an Aer Grav-Chute, from which they derive their name, that can serve as a efficient jet pack on the battlefield. This makes them extremely mobile, capable of vaulting over tall obstacle, escaping assaulting enemy units and attacking them from above. The only weakness of those Grav-Chute is their weight limit that only allow the lightest and most agile Scions to use them. They also needed a lighter and more compact weapon than their standard Hot-Shot Lasgun. Thus, they are all armed with a small Hot-Shot LasSMG that provides them with a surprising amount of firepower but only at very short range.
Special Rule: Scion, Deep Strike, Move Through Cover, Stealth, Hit and Run
Unit Composition: 5 to 10 (Jet Pack Infantry)
Option:
A Aer Scion must be promoted to an Aer Tempestor for (4 pts)
The Aer Tempestor can exchange his Hot-Shot LasSMG for a Bolt Pistol for free or a pair of Plasma Pistol for (15 pts)
The Aer Tempestor can exchange his Close Combat Weapon for a Power Weapon for (10 pts), a Shock Sword for (5 pts) or a Powerfist for (15 pts)
The Aer Tempestor can take a Meltacharge for (5 pts)
Up to two Aer Scion can exchange their Hot-shot LasSMG for a pair of Plasma pistol for (15 pts)
I've done the first half It takes a lot longer than I though it would, and I doubt I've caught everything either
Few more points: Ignis Scions have retained the CCWs. Combined with their extra base attack and these guys are much better in melee.
Same thing for your sergeants, I think they should have the option of exchanging their rifle for a CCW rather than just getting it.
Also I don't think Ignis Scions should start with camo cloaks, perhaps it should be like Guard Veterans where they can choose from doctrines? Such as a steath or demolitions doctrine.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also further points, for the price of nothing but their lasgun Armis Scions gain a shock sword and shields.
Really, really bloody good shields at that (too good).
Also almost all of your units still retain stealth, even move through cover is question (you want an entire army of Scouts with all the benefits of a proper army)
A note on aer jump packs as well, you do know that jet packs are the ones that let you move 2D6 in the assault phase even when not moving correct? Jump packs allow you to move 12'' in the movement phase, which I feel would be more appropriate both for gameplay and fluff.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/06 14:10:12
Yes, Ignis Scions have indeed retained their close combat weapon which makes them pretty good in melee, if not exceptionnal. Despite this quality, they still aren't as good as the Armis Scions but offer the option to retain some close combat capacity should the player have chosen not to take Armis Scions. I could give them a "doctrinal" option between more explosives and a stealth doctrine that gives them the camocloak. It does sound like a good idea.
Yes, Aer Grav-Chute are upposed to be JET PACKS and not JUMP PACKS. I was aware the difference.
I play testing the Armis Scions, I do think they are a bit underpriced. I will raise their point cost.
PS: Thanks for your work of correction!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/06 14:53:56
epronovost wrote: Yes, Ignis Scions have indeed retained their close combat weapon which makes them pretty good in melee, if not exceptionnal. Despite this quality, they still aren't as good as the Armis Scions but offer the option to retain some close combat capacity should the player have chosen not to take Armis Scions. I could give them a "doctrinal" option between more explosives and a stealth doctrine that gives them the camocloak. It does sound like a good idea.
Yes, Aer Grav-Chute are upposed to be JET PACKS and not JUMP PACKS. I was aware the difference.
I play testing the Armis Scions, I do think they are a bit underpriced. I will raise their point cost.
PS: Thanks for your work of correction!
Maybe make the Ignis Scions being good at melee one of their doctrines?
Make them a specialist unit, rather than a master-of-everything
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, whats the logic behin djet packs?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/06 15:16:17
Maybe make the Ignis Scions being good at melee one of their doctrines?
Make them a specialist unit, rather than a master-of-everything
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, whats the logic behin djet packs?
The logic behind the jet Pack insteat of Jump pack is that the Aer Scions are using modified Grav-Chutes. They have only a very mild propulsion system to help move around and mostly rely on simply jumping in a low gravity bubble to move around like jet packs. That's why they have trouble with weigth restrictions, carry lighter weapons and are recruited from smaller and thinner Scions. They just make long jumps that they use to get in and out of firing range. Even if they were to use their Aer Grav-Chute charge into an enemy squad, they wouldn't smash them appart like units with Jump Pack who use them in assault (they gain Hammer of Wrath Special Rule). What do you think is the argument in favor of Jump packs over jet packs?
Maybe make the Ignis Scions being good at melee one of their doctrines?
Make them a specialist unit, rather than a master-of-everything
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, whats the logic behin djet packs?
The logic behind the jet Pack insteat of Jump pack is that the Aer Scions are using modified Grav-Chutes. They have only a very mild propulsion system to help move around and mostly rely on simply jumping in a low gravity bubble to move around like jet packs. That's why they have trouble with weigth restrictions, carry lighter weapons and are recruited from smaller and thinner Scions. They just make long jumps that they use to get in and out of firing range. Even if they were to use their Aer Grav-Chute charge into an enemy squad, they wouldn't smash them appart like units with Jump Pack who use them in assault (they gain Hammer of Wrath Special Rule). What do you think is the argument in favor of Jump packs over jet packs?
That was going to be exactly my argument from a fluff point of view xD They're JUMP packs, jet packs are described as holding the model mid-air.
Plus they're assault units, and every assault unit ever is on jump packs rather the jet packs.
I can't see the rules for the regimental standard anywhere.
Also demolitions doesn't sound like a setting up minefields sort of thing, it sounds more like it is in the guard codex where everyone gets melta bombs.
You also haven't explained how minefields work, I suggest using the Space Marine 'Snare Mines' rule. Where you designate a piece of terrain to have been snare mined, first enemy unit wandering into the terrain suffers I think it was 3d6 S4 AP- hits, on the rear armour if a vehicle.
I think you're underestimating HS-multi lasers, S2 AP2 3 shots is insanely good, and will chew through anything short of TH/SS like they're not even there.
Especially something like a Victory Prime, with 5 of the things! 5!
Flyers in general tend to skimp a little on the firepower to make up for their increased durability.
Also why give it preferred enemy flyers? That rule is reserved for things like Yarrick who has spent his entire life fighting Orks, and has even sacrificed a good part of his own body to help fight them. Intended targets don't get this sort of thing. Hydra flak batteries don't get preferred enemy flyers, Leman Russ vanquishers don't get preferred enemy tanks.
Plus the rule is largely insignificant since most weapons are twin-linked.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just realised HS-multilasers have Lance. Why? Lance is like xenotech dark lance technology, not a fancy laser. Lascannons don't get lance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/07 06:57:30
Rules for Mine Field can be found in the Main Rule Book and/or in the City Fight expansion. It's basicaly like snare mines but 2d6 hits instead of 3d6. I added an entry for Mine Field in the Special Equipment section. Regimental Standards are the same thing rule wise than Platoon Standards. They are oth uner the same section. It gives a bonus of 1 in Ld to all units within 6' and a bonus of 1 in attack to the bearer unit.
I don't think I underestimate that much the Hot-Shot Multilaser. It's about as efficient as a Starcanon (one more shot, but less range) and about as dangerous as a plasma canon (more precise, but potentialy less damage).
Preferred enemy is a rule that betrays great experience, particular hatred or speciliasation in a certain field. Both Dakka Jets and Crimson Hunters have a special rule to allow them to attack other flyers more efficently since its their job. For Dakka Jet, its a boost to their BS and for the Crimson Hunter its the rule Preferred Enemy (flier) and Skyhunter. Imperial Guard units rarely have special rules of that sort because guards are supposed to be mediocre in terms of training. I did increased the price for the upgrade on the Vicotry Prime and reduced its armor a little bit. For its current price tag its a very good flier, but not all that dominating (after some price adjustment of course!).
The lance thing is a mistake, I thought about giving lance to the heavy rifle, but removed it after giving it some thought. I copy pasted the old entry of the heavy rifle for the Hot-Shot Multilaser and forgot to remove the lance rule. It's gone now. thanks for noticing it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/07 16:27:57
Why does the Victory Prime get 1 random hellstrike missile?
Also the Victory Prime seems most analogous to the Vulture, and as such shouldn't get the door mounts (which themselves are insanely good)
You say your HS-multilasers are similar to starcannons, aren't those the things known for being crazy OP and aren't even AP 2? I wouldn't call 30'' short ranged either. Especially on a fast vehicle or flyer.
Just did the math and a Victory prime with the door mounted HS multilasers will kill 6.67 T4 or worse models with a 5+ cover or invuln save per shooting attack.
If those were Tactical marines hiding in some woods you've just destroyed 93pts worth in a single shooting attack. Imagine if they were Terminators...
And for only 5pts more than a heavy bolter? They make an already bad weapon look like a bad joke.
Take that same Victory Prime as part of the Aerial Supremacy Squadron for Strafing Run and you kill 11.45 models! That's an entire squad of Marines or Terminators just... gone.
I know that probably doesn't look so bad in the face of a Grav Centurion unit, but you shouldn't be trying to make a top-cheese army. The people that use they kinds of fandexes aren't going to be using them in tournaments and you really don't want to give your opponent an excuse to cry foul.
and with 15 strength 6 shots they're not exactly bad against vehicles, especially flyers.
Also I feel like Venators should have camo netting as an upgrade.
Oh and I'm not sure if it's just me, but the heirlooms section is either blank or not working.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/07 16:30:11
kirotheavenger wrote: Why does the Victory Prime get 1 random hellstrike missile?
Also the Victory Prime seems most analogous to the Vulture, and as such shouldn't get the door mounts (which themselves are insanely good)
You say your HS-multilasers are similar to starcannons, aren't those the things known for being crazy OP and aren't even AP 2? I wouldn't call 30'' short ranged either. Especially on a fast vehicle or flyer.
Just did the math and a Victory prime with the door mounted HS multilasers will kill 6.67 T4 or worse models with a 5+ cover or invuln save per shooting attack.
If those were Tactical marines hiding in some woods you've just destroyed 93pts worth in a single shooting attack. Imagine if they were Terminators...
And for only 5pts more than a heavy bolter? They make an already bad weapon look like a bad joke.
Take that same Victory Prime as part of the Aerial Supremacy Squadron for Strafing Run and you kill 11.45 models! That's an entire squad of Marines or Terminators just... gone.
I know that probably doesn't look so bad in the face of a Grav Centurion unit, but you shouldn't be trying to make a top-cheese army. The people that use they kinds of fandexes aren't going to be using them in tournaments and you really don't want to give your opponent an excuse to cry foul.
and with 15 strength 6 shots they're not exactly bad against vehicles, especially flyers.
Starcanon are range: 36, S: 6, AP: 2, Heavy 2. Crimson hunter can mount 2 of them and an additionnal Pulse Laser whose range: 48, S: 8, AP: 2, Heavy 2. On a fast platform with a Skyhunter, Precision Shot and Vector dancer for 140 pts. It's not as tough though than the Victory Prime. Considering the Price of the Crimson Hunter, the Vendetta and the Valkyrie, I think that stock at 160 pts they are rather reasonnably priced. I will raise a bit the point cost for the upgrades though. A unit costing 200 pts, that can do the sort of damage you calculated, but can be shot down rather easily doesn't feel so OP. You were right though that they were underpriced before. I already used them twice in play testing match with their previous price and were shot down rather fast. This might have led me to underestimate the damage they could do. I also just noticed I copy pasted the price of the Valkyrie in the Vendetta entry, I fixed it to its normal price.
Also I feel like Venators should have camo netting as an upgrade.
Oh and I'm not sure if it's just me, but the heirlooms section is either blank or not working.
I removed it, but kept the price the same.
I don't know whats's not working with the heirloom here is a copy of what's in the file.
Tempestus Scions Heirloom
The Blade of Terra: These Two-Handed power swords were once carried by the highest ranking officers of the Solar Auxilia. These relics were tranfered to the Ordo Tempestus after the Reign of Blood and are carried by a few privileged Commissar Lords and Tempestor Prime. Range: -, S: +2, AP: 2, Require Two-Hands, Mastercrafted. (20 pts)
The Gauntlet of Avitius: These gauntlets were hand crafted by a genius Techpriest for the Tempestor Prime Avitius who saved his life. These gauntlets were designed to be the perfect firing aids thanks to recoil compensators, auto-sense and a sophisticated machine spirit that link itself to the tactical helmet of the bearer. It allows the bearer to increase the range of all his weapon by 6' and allows him to fire overwatch at full Ballistic Skill. (25 pts)
The Armor of the Dragon: An ancient suit of blessed Carapace Armor with a integrated power field, legend says it was crafted by Vulkan himself for a Solar Auxilia commander he would have loved. Studies on the armor seems to indicate its of too recent design for it to be true, but the legend remains very popular. The quality of the armor would make Vulkan himself proud though. It's a suit of Carapace Armor that grants an armor save of 3+ and an invulnerable save of 4+ to the bearer. (30 pts)
The Star of Terra: The highest decoration a man or woman can possibly receive. The berarer of the Star of Terra are all mighty hero and there is an incredible prestige associated with it. The bearer of this decoration has a bonus of +1 to his Leadership and the Adamantium Will Special Rule. In addition, as long as he lives, all units within 6' gain a bonus of +1 in Attack and score an extra point when it comes to combat resolution. This bonus stacks with that of a Platoon Standard. (45 pts)
The Heart of the Sun: A sophisticated plasma pistol carried by a famous Commissar Lord. This powerful weapon was used in many glorious engagements and was most famously known for scarring a monstruous and unstoppable Carnifex. Range: 12, S: 8, AP 2, Pistol, fire wtice a round, Get's Hot (20 pts)
The Messenger of Heaven Vox System: An old Vox System found in a lost colony. It can carries instruction at a greater range than any other of its kind. The few officers who have been blessed with such a device, can issue orders at incredible range without fear of having their message lost or intercepted. This Vox System allows all units within 24' to receive orders from the bearer of this Vox System and use his Leadership for their moral tests. (25 pts)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/03/07 18:05:42
Heart of the Sun heirloom.
For 5pts more than a plasma pistol it doubles the firerate and adds one strength?
I would advice against comparing anything to Eldar. The codex known for being almost universally above the power curve.
Also I'm not sure if I've addressed this before, but most of your army still has stealth
Your Insidias Scions even have Shrouded. I know you want to represent the stealthy aspect the Scions can take on occasionally, but that isn't how other units work it. Space Marine scouts don't get stealth, they get infiltrate. And stacking stealth and a camocloak onto a model to get shrouded is just insane, that's like Tau's apparently-invisible stealth suits levels of hiding.
kirotheavenger wrote: Heart of the Sun heirloom.
For 5pts more than a plasma pistol it doubles the firerate and adds one strength?
I would advice against comparing anything to Eldar. The codex known for being almost universally above the power curve.
Also I'm not sure if I've addressed this before, but most of your army still has stealth
Your Insidias Scions even have Shrouded. I know you want to represent the stealthy aspect the Scions can take on occasionally, but that isn't how other units work it. Space Marine scouts don't get stealth, they get infiltrate. And stacking stealth and a camocloak onto a model to get shrouded is just insane, that's like Tau's apparently-invisible stealth suits levels of hiding.
Stealth suits have both Shrouded and Stealth for a basic 4+ cover save. That's almost invisible. Shrouded is very, very stealthy.
Space Marines Scouts don't have stealth because they are rookies and, as rule, the Adeptus Astartes doesn't consider reconnaissance and stealth as important. That's why this duty, which is given to specialists and veterans in all other armies in the 40K universe and in our own universe because its so god damn important, is given to the worst Space Marine imaginable. Only Space Wolves and the Raven Guard and their descendants seems to view stealth and scouting as important and, in the case of the Raven Guard, their scout do have stealth (and so do their Space Marines). It's the same thing for the Night Lords who also have stealth.
Ork Kommandos all have the Stealth rule in addition to Infiltrate and Move Through Cover including their Nob. They don't have anything close like a Camocloak. If orks can be this stealthy, why not humans who trained extansively in covert operation like ork kommando do?
Comparing regular Scout Space Marines to Scions would like comparing them to Imperial Guardsmen. Both are not as heavily trained as a full feldge Scion since one is still in training (perhapse not even adults in some country, much larger, heavier and smellier which makes them a lot less discrete) and the other is just a regular G.I Joe. Scions are not ment to be "occasionnaly stealthy" its the other way around. They are "occasionnaly" brazen. Thus, for all these reasons, the Stealth Rule will remain.
BTW: the update for a plasma pistol is 10 pts. thus it's double the price for about double the damage and more risk of Get's Hot. I think 20 pts is fair price for such a weapon. 25 seems a bit much in my opinion, but still acceptable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/07 18:49:42
Plasma pistols are 15pts for astartes, they maybe be 10pts for guard but guard are only BS3.
It's also a bit more than double damage, instant deathing marines can be pretty significant.
The blood angels have a 25pt relic plasma pistol and it all it does is remove gets hot.
I still really don't think you should be having army-wide scout, you're storm troopers not stealth troopers. And I especially disagree with stacking it.
You do realize the average Space Marine Scout is going to be older than the average Scion, and they've spent at least as much time, if not more, in training, right?
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