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Solar Shock wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?

In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.

Why doesn't that stratagem work with the FW stuff? They have the helbrute keyword and use the helbrute datasheet, the only variance is the additional weapon load out? Or am I missing something?

The distinction is that "Helbrute" isn't bolded in the Fire Frenzy stratagems' rules description (all keywords in any stratagem are), so it pertains to the Helbrute datasheet, NOT the Helbrute keyword. This means that ONLY a model that fully complies with the Helbrute datasheet can make use of it and FW dreads cannot (well, at least the Contemptor/ Deredeo/ Leviathan classes as they use their own datasheets, don't know how for example an Emperors' Children Sonic Dreadnought would be affected because that could maybe also be considered to be using the Helbrute datasheet with additional weapon options) despite having the Helbrute keyword. Unsure if this is intended but that's how it is currently.

I tried for the second time a zombie tide list, with typhus, footslogging PM and R&H detachment.
While the PB are better both on paper and on the table in comparison with poxwalkers, the combo with the stategems is really worthy the points: simply the tide of the poxwalkers swallow every enemy unit.
I played against a necron list and a crappy Dark Angels list with a super heavy, in both cases my opponents didn't realise that It's possible to create zombie IN FRONT of the unit, so I was able to quick close the gap against them.
When they tried to grab the objectives in the middle of the table they were quickly blocked by the expanding powwalkers blob.
Of course you have to spend two CP every turn for the Dead live again and to meke untargettable the unit but it create a perfect unkillable shield for the plaguecasters and the malefic lords that can quickly submerge with smite every opponent.
I suggest you to try this move, while you have to sink more or less 1000 points in the building of the Typhus + plaguecaster + poxwalkers + renegades + malefic lords, it works quite well

Solar Shock wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?

In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.

Why doesn't that stratagem work with the FW stuff? They have the helbrute keyword and use the helbrute datasheet, the only variance is the additional weapon load out? Or am I missing something?

The stratagem isn't linked to a keyword.

 luke1705 wrote:

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?

They’re both very good but the traitor version has a str 8 gun with 36” range and 10 shots, whereas the loyalist version has a str 7 gun with 24” range and 8 shots, plus the traitor version of the heavy flamer is 2 damage, compared to only 1 with the loyalists. They do get a 4++ all the time though, and we only get that in cc (5++ vs shooting)

In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.

I just checked and the Loyalist version is 24" S7 Ap-2 D2 with 10 shots and the Hellforged is 36" S8 Ap-1 D1 with 8 shots, so apart from the extra 12" range the Chaos Version is WAY worse. Soulburner is arguably worse than the melta lance. And Machina Malefica just does not counterbalance the 5++ invul save against shooting, especially if you want to go dual ranged options

So, I was looking through FW, and I was curious what people think about using the various dreadnoughts to patch our lack of particularly good anti geq. All three seem to have good options, the contemptor has duel assault cannons or heavy bolters, the deredeo can grab butcher cannon array, heavy bolter, and greater havoc launcher or hellfire veil, while the leviathan can take a mixture of butcher cannon arrays and/or grav flux bombards for anti everything, plus the hellflamers. The only serious competition these have on our list are bloat drones with flamers, and I think everything I mentioned outperforms them by a decent margin. Oh and mortarion but he's a bit of a limited resource.

The leviathan is probably the best point for point offensively, one butcher array and one grav flux bombard is a nice mixture of long and short range than can threaten just about everything, and the hellflamers are great as if you use it more aggressively. It does need to get close to use its guns fully, but that's why our legion tactic is so wonderful for them.

Also the deredeo ends up being what our haulers wanted to be, a walking gun platform that buffs everything around it. Toss some poxwalkers in range to screen him and walk up the field, a 5+ invulnerable does wonders for them and they aren't struggling to keep up like they would with a hauler. Sadly means we don't get the wonderful greater havoc launcher, but the butcher cannon and heavy bolter are still a formidable combo.

Contemptors are cheap, costing just barely more than a bloat drone, but dealing more damage and doing it from turn 1. A bit more fragile though, and more vulnerable to being tied up in melee. Still, we already have a fair number of durable models and could probably use a few that trade durability for firepower. This is a solid choice.

I think deredeo with veil and leviathan moving up with field with poxwalkers would be the best combo personally. First time I've ever wanted poxwalkers moving up the field, but the 5+ invulnerable save is just so good on them, brings them up to plaguebearer levels.

Also, and this isn't super relevant but I found it funny, you know the twin volcano cannon on the falchion? The thing that's absurd overkill on almost every non super heavy tank in the game? That can consistently kill a land raider every turn? Our plagueburst crawler survives being shot by it almost exactly half the time. Won't exactly be much use afterwards, but I found it funny just how tough that tank is.

brugner8 wrote:
I suggest you to try this move, while you have to sink more or less 1000 points in the building of the Typhus + plaguecaster + poxwalkers + renegades + malefic lords, it works quite well

Hmm, an interesting idea. I normally object to poxwalkers because I don't see the point but.... as a delivery system for malefic lords and to swamp the board in obj secured? Not a bad idea. I'm glad we are finding more uses for them, I've been very disappointed so far.

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
So Hellforged Leviathans can also take 2 ranged weapons? Thats very good although I still think the loyalist version is better than the Chaos one. What weapon loadouts would you guys run in a DG army?

They’re both very good but the traitor version has a str 8 gun with 36” range and 10 shots, whereas the loyalist version has a str 7 gun with 24” range and 8 shots, plus the traitor version of the heavy flamer is 2 damage, compared to only 1 with the loyalists. They do get a 4++ all the time though, and we only get that in cc (5++ vs shooting)

In general, I’d still say the traitor version is a bit better overall. And now with DG negating the moving penalty, they can advance up and make much better use of their flamers. That’s actually a really big deal. If that stratagem ever gets FAQ’d to work on all HELLBRUTEs, I think one is an auto include. Even now, I’m a big fan.

I just checked and the Loyalist version is 24" S7 Ap-2 D2 with 10 shots and the Hellforged is 36" S8 Ap-1 D1 with 8 shots, so apart from the extra 12" range the Chaos Version is WAY worse. Soulburner is arguably worse than the melta lance. And Machina Malefica just does not counterbalance the 5++ invul save against shooting, especially if you want to go dual ranged options

Aren't the Butcher Cannons 2 damage instead of 1?

They are. Also might wanna look at how they are priced.

Whoops made a typo there. Both are indeed 2 Damage. I also favor a Grav-Flux Butcher Cannon Loadout, but knowing the Loyalist Version of the BCA and not getting a 4++ leaves such a bad taste. A shame that we don't get the Cyclonic Melta Lance I think it would be awesome for anti tank roles which DG in general lack

So I'm really not sold on the crawlers, despite looking awesome. That 4+ to hit really sucks. But it's cheaper than a Predator Annihilator by a good 50 points and looks way better IMHO.

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
Whoops made a typo there. Both are indeed 2 Damage. I also favor a Grav-Flux Butcher Cannon Loadout, but knowing the Loyalist Version of the BCA and not getting a 4++ leaves such a bad taste. A shame that we don't get the Cyclonic Melta Lance I think it would be awesome for anti tank roles which DG in general lack

Anti tank we have in bulk, from blight lords with over charged plasma, lascannons on predators or helbrutes, the crawlers which are great against toughness 7 or less, and the hauler which is a bit more questionable efficiency wise but does exist. Anti tank we have oodles of, in curious what your issue is with the various options.

Wayniac wrote:
So I'm really not sold on the crawlers, despite looking awesome. That 4+ to hit really sucks. But it's cheaper than a Predator Annihilator by a good 50 points and looks way better IMHO.

We've also done the math, it's better value against toughness 7 vehicles for its cost and only a bit worse versus toughness 8. Yes the BS skill makes it look worse, but it's also rocking 1-2 extra shots compared to a las predator on average and has the point decrease. Not to mention how much tougher it is, the point of toughness, extra wound, DR, and the 5+ invulnerable.

I'll be honest, if you aren't finding the blightcrawler impressive I would probably move back to normal a CSM. It's one of the only good things we get that normal CSM doesn't. That and blight lord terminators being absurdly tough.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
Whoops made a typo there. Both are indeed 2 Damage. I also favor a Grav-Flux Butcher Cannon Loadout, but knowing the Loyalist Version of the BCA and not getting a 4++ leaves such a bad taste. A shame that we don't get the Cyclonic Melta Lance I think it would be awesome for anti tank roles which DG in general lack

Anti tank we have in bulk, from blight lords with over charged plasma, lascannons on predators or helbrutes, the crawlers which are great against toughness 7 or less, and the hauler which is a bit more questionable efficiency wise but does exist. Anti tank we have oodles of, in curious what your issue is with the various options.

Wayniac wrote:
So I'm really not sold on the crawlers, despite looking awesome. That 4+ to hit really sucks. But it's cheaper than a Predator Annihilator by a good 50 points and looks way better IMHO.

We've also done the math, it's better value against toughness 7 vehicles for its cost and only a bit worse versus toughness 8. Yes the BS skill makes it look worse, but it's also rocking 1-2 extra shots compared to a las predator on average and has the point decrease. Not to mention how much tougher it is, the point of toughness, extra wound, DR, and the 5+ invulnerable.

I'll be honest, if you aren't finding the blightcrawler impressive I would probably move back to normal a CSM. It's one of the only good things we get that normal CSM doesn't. That and blight lord terminators being absurdly tough.

I'm really debating, I was going to get two crawlers, both on looks and on what they bring to the table (also I'm running deathshroud AND Blightlords in the same list). I mean, they look great. If the math shows they are good (I suck at math so I don't try to Mathhammer) then that sells them on me getting the two. It's better than showing up with a Leviathan Dread from FW and risk alienating people.

However I am not planning on taking a Chaos Lord for re-rolls, so not sure how that affects the choice of crawler.

SilverAlien wrote:

Well the loadout options aren't really very competitive. The entropy cannons and heavy slugger are basically always the correct choice. You really don't want to move the BS 4+ unit, so the 36+ range on every weapon is needed, and you need to get as many shots as possible to compensate for the 4+ anyways.

The BS is an issue on both the mortar and the cannons, but this really is a cheap unit for the number of shots it tosses out, 5-6 on average. You need to take a few to make it reliable, but you can grab three for around 450 points, which isn't bad at all. It only really struggles against toughness 8 compared to a lascannon predator, and is so much more durable.

Personally I prefer the heavy slugger over the havoc launcher, so I'm not overly bothered.

True about the BS being an issue for both but since it comes packaged in with the tank its an easier pill to swallow. Your analysis of the entropy cannons make sense to me and I've already been running 2 Crawlers with the heavy sluggers. I'll probably magnetize the guns and main the entropy cannons so I can sleep easier at night.

SilverAlien wrote:

I'll be honest, if you aren't finding the blightcrawler impressive I would probably move back to normal a CSM. It's one of the only good things we get that normal CSM doesn't. That and blight lord terminators being absurdly tough.

Going to have to disagree with you here. I think they did well enough with the codex that it feels unique from the CSM we are used to and it also brings more strong units to the table then just blightlords and Crawlers. There are plenty of tweaks I would like to see to make it better and the CSM book is definately in a good place but the CT, daemon engines, and elites make it feel distinct. I think until we get some much needed tweaks a detachment of each is the way to go.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:
Whoops made a typo there. Both are indeed 2 Damage. I also favor a Grav-Flux Butcher Cannon Loadout, but knowing the Loyalist Version of the BCA and not getting a 4++ leaves such a bad taste. A shame that we don't get the Cyclonic Melta Lance I think it would be awesome for anti tank roles which DG in general lack

Anti tank we have in bulk, from blight lords with over charged plasma, lascannons on predators or helbrutes, the crawlers which are great against toughness 7 or less, and the hauler which is a bit more questionable efficiency wise but does exist. Anti tank we have oodles of, in curious what your issue is with the various options.

Wayniac wrote:
So I'm really not sold on the crawlers, despite looking awesome. That 4+ to hit really sucks. But it's cheaper than a Predator Annihilator by a good 50 points and looks way better IMHO.

We've also done the math, it's better value against toughness 7 vehicles for its cost and only a bit worse versus toughness 8. Yes the BS skill makes it look worse, but it's also rocking 1-2 extra shots compared to a las predator on average and has the point decrease. Not to mention how much tougher it is, the point of toughness, extra wound, DR, and the 5+ invulnerable.

I'll be honest, if you aren't finding the blightcrawler impressive I would probably move back to normal a CSM. It's one of the only good things we get that normal CSM doesn't. That and blight lord terminators being absurdly tough.

I hope this doesnt get too long... Let's start with the leviathan body: The Hellforged one loses it's 4+ Invul save against shooting for the Machina Malefica Rule. 2 Problems: 1. If you want to go dual ranged options you will probably never restore even a single wound since MM only heals for Models slain in the fighting phase. With dual ranged option you won't engage in melee and your opponent will only engage your Leviathan with units he knows will destroy the dread. 2. Even if you go with a melee weapon, MM heals based on the amount of models slain, meaning you have to engage infantry to get the most out of your heal. But why would you waste your 4 S16 Ap-4 D4 attacks on infantry and not on tanks? The tank is only 1 model tho and will only heal one wound with a 1/3 chance. In either case, definitly not worth the lesser Invul save.
On the Weapons: 1. Additional Damage on the Hellflamer is appreciated, but i doubt it makes that much of a difference since your primary Flamer targets will be Infantry anyway, most of which got only 1 wound. Terminators would be the only niche I could think of.
2. Traitor Butcher Cannon Array vs. Loyalist BCA; Mathematically the loyalist one does more damage against pretty much everything but the traitor one has 12 " more range and the morale effect, I don't think much of the morale effect and the additional range becomes even more meaningless with our Legion Trait since you can just move up without consequences. 3. Soulburner Ribaudkin vs. Cyclonic Melta Lance; The Soulburner just feels way too niche. The only case I think it would be usefull is against characters with very high invul saves. The Melta Lance on the other hand has a clear defined and usefull role: A very strong multi-shot Melta againt high armor targets.
Dont get me wrong I love Leviathans and I don't think the Hellforged Variant is bad by any means. I just feel like the Loyalist one has a lot of little things it does better than the chaos one which add up and they kinda bug me.

Edit: Not getting a 4++ against shooting REALLY bugs me tho. Cant deny that

Wayniac wrote:
So I'm really not sold on the crawlers, despite looking awesome. That 4+ to hit really sucks. But it's cheaper than a Predator Annihilator by a good 50 points and looks way better IMHO.

Don't forget the Crawler is about twice as tough as the Predator, especially against melta and missile launchers (both S8). It's also a bit better against lascannons with a 5+ invul and DG.

Anyway, I think the way to go with these things is to field them in small groups (3 fills the requirement of a Spearhead detachment and is just 468 points). This way you'll have redundancy to make up for the 4+ BS. A group also makes it worthwhile to put a Chaos Lord next to them for those reroll 1s. Give him Arch-Contaminator and you also get reroll all wounds for the mortars. An enormous force multiplier for just 74 points.

I was brainstorming with the help of Battlecribe and I came up with this as a possible list to build towards:
Detachment 1: Battalion Detachment
HQ:
Daemon Prince with Wings: Hellforged Sword, The Suppurating Plate
Malignant Plaguecaster
Troops:
5 Plague Marines: 3x Plasmagun
5 Plague Marines: 2x Blight Launcher, Plasmagun on Champ
6 Plague Marines: 2x Flail of Corruption, 1x Mace of Contagion/Bubotic Axe, Power Fist on Champ
Fast Attack:
Foetid Bloat-drone: 2x Plaguespitter
Dedicated Transport:
Chaos Rhino
Detachment 2: Spearhead Detachment
HQ:
Chaos Lord: Power Sword, Combi-bolter
Heavy Support:
Chaos Predator: Twin Lascannon, 2x Lascannon
Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy Cannon, Heavy Slugger
Plagueburst Crawler: 2x Entropy Cannon, Heavy Slugger
Detachment 3: Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment
Mortarion
My feeling is that this list has decent threat saturation. Morty is the most obvious target, but I can probably threaten stuff reasonably well with the tanks, as the Chaos Lord will mitigate the penalty for moving, and once they are in a good spot they can sit still and bring the rain. He makes a decent charge deterrent as well. With a winged Prince and a Bloat drone flying around and a Rhino full of melee-equipped Plague Marines, I've got some fast moving threats besides Mortarion. The shooty Plague Marines will take advantage of the DG legion trait and advance up the board on the first turn, then start bringing the pain. With the bigger threats on the table, they might be ignored at least at first and can hold objectives. One thing I've considered is running the Chaos Lord naked and taking another good melee weapon on the melee Plague Marines instead. Would that be a good idea?

Hi guys! Here's a 2k list I've played a few games with and I've been really happy with it. Went with 3 PBC and an arch contaminator lord to babysit them. So far it's been working well for me. I'm really liking the PBC with all the rerolls.

Wayniac wrote:
I'm really debating, I was going to get two crawlers, both on looks and on what they bring to the table (also I'm running deathshroud AND Blightlords in the same list). I mean, they look great. If the math shows they are good (I suck at math so I don't try to Mathhammer) then that sells them on me getting the two. It's better than showing up with a Leviathan Dread from FW and risk alienating people.

However I am not planning on taking a Chaos Lord for re-rolls, so not sure how that affects the choice of crawler.

Rerolling ones doesn't boost the crawler that much, what it really likes is the arch contaminator WT to reroll all failed wounds, which helps it quite a bit against toughness 8. However, it isn't required by any stretch, but if your meta has a lot of toughness 8 vehicles it might be something to think about.

 Raphael the Raven wrote:
Going to have to disagree with you here. I think they did well enough with the codex that it feels unique from the CSM we are used to and it also brings more strong units to the table then just blightlords and Crawlers. There are plenty of tweaks I would like to see to make it better and the CSM book is definately in a good place but the CT, daemon engines, and elites make it feel distinct. I think until we get some much needed tweaks a detachment of each is the way to go.

I'm just talking from a point efficiency stand point, most of our unique models aren't very good. A number also have trap options, features which seem useful but, if utilized, often make the unit weaker overall, due to the way it must be used. Poxwalkers+typhus, the hauler escorting slow infantry or being taken in sets of three, plague marines being deceptively fragile, the crawler being placed without LoS, deathshroud teleporting in, the list goes on but so many things in our army just don't seem to be functioning correctly, or outright were designed to not function correctly.

I'm sure it'll be fixed eventually, but at the moment most of our army doesn't function very cohesively. Which is a shame because it does have potential, a lot of the new units just need either rule or point alterations pretty badly.

brugner8 wrote:
I tried for the second time a zombie tide list, with typhus, footslogging PM and R&H detachment.
While the PB are better both on paper and on the table in comparison with poxwalkers, the combo with the stategems is really worthy the points: simply the tide of the poxwalkers swallow every enemy unit.
I played against a necron list and a crappy Dark Angels list with a super heavy, in both cases my opponents didn't realise that It's possible to create zombie IN FRONT of the unit, so I was able to quick close the gap against them.
When they tried to grab the objectives in the middle of the table they were quickly blocked by the expanding powwalkers blob.
Of course you have to spend two CP every turn for the Dead live again and to meke untargettable the unit but it create a perfect unkillable shield for the plaguecasters and the malefic lords that can quickly submerge with smite every opponent.
I suggest you to try this move, while you have to sink more or less 1000 points in the building of the Typhus + plaguecaster + poxwalkers + renegades + malefic lords, it works quite well

This. I was about to post pretty much the same tactic. People are sleeping on the poxwalkers and the dead walk again strategem. You could put units of plague marines and cultist around your blob of poxwalkers too, and run that stragem every turn for 1cp. Every thing they kill from your other units will be more poxwalkers. Embed psykers inside the blob to spam smite and buff when needed.

Also I don't think people are utilizing the fact you can spread the models 2inches from each other, and get crazy board control and spread more of nurgles gift.

I have a question about the poxwalker strategem and getting huge squads. Cause unless I'm reading the FAQ wrong it says you can go over you "starting squad size." It however does not say they go over "maximum squad size." So correct me if I'm wrong but you still can't get over 20 walkers in one squad?

Ecdain wrote:
I have a question about the poxwalker strategem and getting huge squads. Cause unless I'm reading the FAQ wrong it says you can go over you "starting squad size." It however does not say they go over "maximum squad size." So correct me if I'm wrong but you still can't get over 20 walkers in one squad?

That's the bit I'm still not super clear on.

Always start at 20 so there's no problem

Seriously tho, don't split hairs. The rule tells you to add a poxwalker, no limits are imposed. Max size is only relevant during list building

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Always start at 20 so there's no problem

Seriously tho, don't split hairs. The rule tells you to add a poxwalker, no limits are imposed. Max size is only relevant during list building

Nono this is not splitting hairs, this is a legitimate question as there is literally nothing else in the game that lets you go over maximum squad size(even horrors only replace themselves for the same number, but they have to pay for it). I actually want this to work but that is a pretty big question that needs to be clarified. Starting size and max size are very different phrases.

Ecdain wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Always start at 20 so there's no problem

Seriously tho, don't split hairs. The rule tells you to add a poxwalker, no limits are imposed. Max size is only relevant during list building

Nono this is not splitting hairs, this is a legitimate question as there is literally nothing else in the game that lets you go over maximum squad size(even horrors only replace themselves for the same number, but they have to pay for it). I actually want this to work but that is a pretty big question that needs to be clarified. Starting size and max size are very different phrases.

Just follow the RAW and you will be fine. You are trying to add rules that don’t exist on the data sheet. You have no limits to how high your pox walker squads can go. If you can get them in combat.

brugner8 wrote:
I tried for the second time a zombie tide list, with typhus, footslogging PM and R&H detachment.
While the PB are better both on paper and on the table in comparison with poxwalkers, the combo with the stategems is really worthy the points: simply the tide of the poxwalkers swallow every enemy unit.
I played against a necron list and a crappy Dark Angels list with a super heavy, in both cases my opponents didn't realise that It's possible to create zombie IN FRONT of the unit, so I was able to quick close the gap against them.
When they tried to grab the objectives in the middle of the table they were quickly blocked by the expanding powwalkers blob.
Of course you have to spend two CP every turn for the Dead live again and to meke untargettable the unit but it create a perfect unkillable shield for the plaguecasters and the malefic lords that can quickly submerge with smite every opponent.
I suggest you to try this move, while you have to sink more or less 1000 points in the building of the Typhus + plaguecaster + poxwalkers + renegades + malefic lords, it works quite well

Well to be honest I still think poxwalkers might be better aswell. Sure like you said the PB look better on paper but in reality I think its the versatility the poxwalkers bring that makes a difference.
The PlagueBearers are tougher and yes they are at -1 to hit from the start. But thats if they are with 20+ models. After that they lose alot of survivability.
On poxwalkers U can Always cast Miasma of pestilence. You can buff them to STR5 and T5 so bolters will kill wound them on 5+! PS: I Always bring Typhus with them. They only thing poxwalkers lack is an invul save. Poxwalkers are fearless, PB might get their numbers back when U roll a 1 on a morale test.
I still have a hard time in deciding what to bring.
On Thursday ill have a shot with 30 plaguebeares and a Malificent Plaguecaster instead of my 28 Poxwalkers and Typhus. Lets see how it goes.

broxus wrote:

Ecdain wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Always start at 20 so there's no problem

Seriously tho, don't split hairs. The rule tells you to add a poxwalker, no limits are imposed. Max size is only relevant during list building

Nono this is not splitting hairs, this is a legitimate question as there is literally nothing else in the game that lets you go over maximum squad size(even horrors only replace themselves for the same number, but they have to pay for it). I actually want this to work but that is a pretty big question that needs to be clarified. Starting size and max size are very different phrases.

Just follow the RAW and you will be fine. You are trying to add rules that don’t exist on the data sheet. You have no limits to how high your pox walker squads can go. If you can get them in combat.

I agree. FAQ states can go above squad starting size. You can start the squad at Max unit size, thus; by being able to go over starting size and starting size can equal max size, you can go over max size. Im pretty sure that is the exact rule GW were trying to imply. Even if they did a classic GW goffy FAQ clarity

So take it as RAW and add as many poxwalkers as possible. If pox spam becomes too prevalent, then maybe they will FAQ it the other way, but until then lets not hamper ourselves!

Missing out on the melta lance for the hellforged leviathan is definitely a feels bad moment.

Really quick question. What is the point of taking a plague marine with 2 plague knives? I see you can replace your bolter with another knife, but the knife doesn't give additional attacks like a chainsword, so why take 2?

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Really quick question. What is the point of taking a plague marine with 2 plague knives? I see you can replace your bolter with another knife, but the knife doesn't give additional attacks like a chainsword, so why take 2?

2 knives give 2 attacks. The 2 attacks combinations are Axe + Knife, Axe + Mace and 2 Knives.

Why we cannot have Mace + knife and spare points is beyond me but hey.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Really quick question. What is the point of taking a plague marine with 2 plague knives? I see you can replace your bolter with another knife, but the knife doesn't give additional attacks like a chainsword, so why take 2?

2 knives give 2 attacks. The 2 attacks combinations are Axe + Knife, Axe + Mace and 2 Knives.

Why we cannot have Mace + knife and spare points is beyond me but hey.

Is that a BRB rule I don't know about. I thought that the weapon needed a special rule, like pair of lightning claws, to give a second attack.

Ahhh
There's a special rule on the datasheet