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Hello,

I have a question: which terminator armour give the Slow and Purposeful rule? Cataphractii? tartaros?

We have an argument with some player of my group today and as they tried to convince me, no terminator armour have this rule anymore. is this true?

They are right: No 30k Terminator Armour has Slow and Purposeful.

Cataphractii Armour has all the effects of Slow and Purposeful, but does not actually have the rule itself.

OK thanks!

So for the Space Wolfs second ROW: the no slow and purposeful unit have no interest in the current version of the game?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
They are right: No 30k Terminator Armour has Slow and Purposeful.

Cataphractii Armour has all the effects of Slow and Purposeful, but does not actually have the rule itself.

Is there any unit that has the rule? I'm trying to come up with unit that Sons of Horus would have that has it. Their long march ROW has limitation that says those needs to be on transport but can't figure what unit would have it. Original thought was precisely terminators but since they have just effects but not rule guess that's not it at least RAW.

tneva82 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
They are right: No 30k Terminator Armour has Slow and Purposeful.

Cataphractii Armour has all the effects of Slow and Purposeful, but does not actually have the rule itself.

Is there any unit that has the rule? I'm trying to come up with unit that Sons of Horus would have that has it. Their long march ROW has limitation that says those needs to be on transport but can't figure what unit would have it. Original thought was precisely terminators but since they have just effects but not rule guess that's not it at least RAW.

Originaly Cataphractii terminators had SnP, but as soon as Forgeworld discovered that players used to take Cataphractii Hqs to give SnP to units likу Heave support squads they changed the Cata rules so that they give the models the same rules, but do not confirm them to the unit. So Usterians and Red Butches have all the same rules as SnP, but they do only affect the models that are wearing Cata armour ( no Snp HQs in a heavy weapon squad like with orks in 40k).

I am still conflicted using Cataphractii units in Rites that don't allow Slow&Purposeful.

HandofMars wrote:
I am still conflicted using Cataphractii units in Rites that don't allow Slow&Purposeful.

And there is literally no reason for that conflict, Cataphractii is no longer Slow and Purposeful, so the RoW don't affect it.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

HandofMars wrote:
I am still conflicted using Cataphractii units in Rites that don't allow Slow&Purposeful.

And there is literally no reason for that conflict, Cataphractii is no longer Slow and Purposeful, so the RoW don't affect it.

That's the RAW but conflict comes from RAI. When something has effects of S&P but not the name one starts to feel if the ROW suddenly being OK for them was unintended consequence.

I think it was an intended consequence

tneva82 wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

HandofMars wrote:
I am still conflicted using Cataphractii units in Rites that don't allow Slow&Purposeful.

And there is literally no reason for that conflict, Cataphractii is no longer Slow and Purposeful, so the RoW don't affect it.

That's the RAW but conflict comes from RAI. When something has effects of S&P but not the name one starts to feel if the ROW suddenly being OK for them was unintended consequence.

Considering it was changed so that it allows Legions with Cataphractii Special Units, to use their special units in their RoW, I think the RAW is the RAI in this case. Otherwise they would have left the armor as Slow and Purposeful.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

HandofMars wrote:
I am still conflicted using Cataphractii units in Rites that don't allow Slow&Purposeful.

And there is literally no reason for that conflict, Cataphractii is no longer Slow and Purposeful, so the RoW don't affect it.

That's the RAW but conflict comes from RAI. When something has effects of S&P but not the name one starts to feel if the ROW suddenly being OK for them was unintended consequence.

Considering it was changed so that it allows Legions with Cataphractii Special Units, to use their special units in their RoW, I think the RAW is the RAI in this case. Otherwise they would have left the armor as Slow and Purposeful.

Except s&p transfers to unit which is silly. You see that on 40k with their mobile grav cannon devastators.

tneva82 wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

HandofMars wrote:
I am still conflicted using Cataphractii units in Rites that don't allow Slow&Purposeful.

And there is literally no reason for that conflict, Cataphractii is no longer Slow and Purposeful, so the RoW don't affect it.

That's the RAW but conflict comes from RAI. When something has effects of S&P but not the name one starts to feel if the ROW suddenly being OK for them was unintended consequence.

Considering it was changed so that it allows Legions with Cataphractii Special Units, to use their special units in their RoW, I think the RAW is the RAI in this case. Otherwise they would have left the armor as Slow and Purposeful.

Except s&p transfers to unit which is silly. You see that on 40k with their mobile grav cannon devastators.

Ok so they made it so HQs cant make Heavy Weapons Squads able to move and shoot as well. It still doesnt change that they changed the rules of the armor when they knew what their rules for RoW are.

There is no conflict, play Cats in those RoW.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Ok so they made it so HQs cant make Heavy Weapons Squads able to move and shoot as well. It still doesnt change that they changed the rules of the armor when they knew what their rules for RoW are.

There is no conflict, play Cats in those RoW.

You assume they are perfect who never make mistakes. This sort of stuff is precisely the kind that is easy to forget and ergo unintended change.

I've got zero conflict about using cataphratii with the bloodied claws row, if they didn't want you using terminators there are clearer ways to say it.

It's not unnintended consequence. FW went out of their way to make it so.

Earth127 wrote:
It's not unnintended consequence. FW went out of their way to make it so.

And this has been stated by them?

At the moment i dont believeanything in 30k has SNP. I however do not believe it was intended to allow cataphractii into non snp ROW, i was unsure for a while but the inclusion of it in book 7 for the wolves leads me to intuit that this was an oversite. However RAW its now fine.

Earth127 wrote:
It's not unnintended consequence. FW went out of their way to make it so.

They really didn't, and continue to make Rites that prevent such units that don't actually exist. Different people write different chunks of rules, resulting in a lot of contradictory or variant wording for stuff. I am convinced half the team doesn't know the 7th edition rules at all.

I am not arguing the new RAW, it just still feels wrong given the Rites that restrict these models tend to be themed after fast-moving forces who can't afford to drag around lumbering terminators.