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Does the warhost of Ynnead rule, for having 7 units in your detachment let you choose "ANY" target for the secondary targeting of soulburst?

The rule as written "If this detachment includes 7 or more units, you can select one additional unit to make a soulburst action each time a unit is destroyed."

I don't think so.
The soulburst rule states that you need to select one eligible unit when the conditions are met. The detachment bonus just modifies that from one eligible unit to two eligible units. It doesn't state that terms and conditions do not apply to the additional unit.

No but it literally tells you to select a unit to make a soulburst action. where as its the strength from death rule that says if you are within 7" of a unit that dies you may take a soulburst action. Im totally with you, and agree thats probably what they were going for, but as written?

That's why soul burst and sfd are different rules I believe - otherwise that and the revenant power that triggers a soul burst action couldn't work.

chadbrochill17 wrote:
No but it literally tells you to select a unit to make a soulburst action. where as its the strength from death rule that says if you are within 7" of a unit that dies you may take a soulburst action. Im totally with you, and agree thats probably what they were going for, but as written?

Ok, let's look at the RAW.

Forces of the Ynnari Strength from Death
Whenever
- a unit is completely destroyed
-- within 7" of one or more
-- non-vehicle units
-- that consist only of models with this special rule
pick one of those units to make a soulburst action.
...(restrictions)
...(how to execute soulburst action)

Reborn Warhost Detachment Warhost of Ynnead
If this detachment includes 7 or more units, you can select one additional unit to make a Soulburst action each time a unit is destroyed.

Emphasis mine.

The way I read this, this neatly ups the pick one unit to pick two units. Now assuming I'm wrong. How would you resolve this without the SfD rule? The Soulburst action is part of the SfD rule.
The restrictions are in range, non-vehicle, must have only models with SfD. Ignoring in range for a moment, would you claim that you can pick a vehicle or a unit without SfD?

Note that the Revenant power Word of the Phoenix does provide it's own restrictions: friendly, must have SfD, within 24" of caster.

Unit does not make soulburst action, you pick 2 units instead of 1 when soulburst action happens. And you pick from those in 7" as soulburst says.

Soulburst makes no distance stipulation. Once you've proc'd soulburst you do what it states - make an action

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Soulburst makes no distance stipulation. Once you've proc'd soulburst you do what it states - make an action

The Strength from Death rule specifies 7" distance as one of the requirements for the soulburst action it permits.
SfD = Conditions for Soulburst + Soulburst action. You can only get the action in a package with the restrictions.

Another important thing to note is the "Soulburst" is NOT a rule. It is part of the Strength from Death rule

This is why any reference to making a Soulburst action does not need to specify conditions, because in order to make a Soulburst action, you need to refer to the SfD rule in the first place, which contains all the conditions required.

The Warhost bonus is clearly an addition to the existing rule of picking 1 unit.

I think the word "additional" in this rule makes all the difference.

It implies that the first unit you chose was a legal target, meaning that it already has the SfD special rule, was within 7" of a dead unit and has not already made a Soulburst action this turn. I take the word "additional" to mean another unit that also satisfies the above criteria, but is not the first unit.

 Stephanius wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Soulburst makes no distance stipulation. Once you've proc'd soulburst you do what it states - make an action

The Strength from Death rule specifies 7" distance as one of the requirements for the soulburst action it permits.
SfD = Conditions for Soulburst + Soulburst action. You can only get the action in a package with the restrictions.

Not so .
If you are told that x allows B, and something else allows B, there is no requirement to review x. B just happens. Again, the psychic power begs differently to your opinion.

You are told to take the action. Why are you reviewing the conditions under which you can normally make the Action?

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Stephanius wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Soulburst makes no distance stipulation. Once you've proc'd soulburst you do what it states - make an action

The Strength from Death rule specifies 7" distance as one of the requirements for the soulburst action it permits.
SfD = Conditions for Soulburst + Soulburst action. You can only get the action in a package with the restrictions.

Not so .
If you are told that x allows B, and something else allows B, there is no requirement to review x. B just happens. Again, the psychic power begs differently to your opinion.

You are told to take the action. Why are you reviewing the conditions under which you can normally make the Action?

Let's look at that logically.
Regular SfD Soulburst hast 3 conditions.
Psychic Power Soulburst has 3 conditions.
Detachment command bonus states "one additional" unit may be selected, when a unit is destroyed, clearly referencing the SfD trigger.

By your logic, I could make the additional soulburst action with an allied Imperial Knight 48" inches away, since I need not care for the restrictions that SfD works under.

That Imperial Knight lacks the Ynnari Faction, and is not part of the Ynnari Warhost.

Let's try it another way:

If this Detachment includes 7 or more units, you can select one additional unit to make a Soulburst action each time a unit is destroyed.

Followed by:

A unit making a Soulburst action can do one of the following, even if it has already done so in this turn:

Now, Strength from Death, and 2 of it's restrictions is not referenced in this chain.
Not 7", not non-vehicle. Because they are in the sentence:

Whenever a unit is completely destroyed within 7" of one or more non-vehicle units that consist only of models with this special rule

No, we are not picking the additional unit, because it was 7" from the destruction.
We are picking a unit because Warhost of the Ynnari rule allows us to select one additional.

I'm completely with the "you need the first within 7" and all restrictions apply".

But the additional one, I think, can be:
- Any of the units in the same detachment.
- Even vehicles (because they too have the Strength from Death rule)
- Anywhere on the battlefield.

A much as i want my fireprisms to shoot twice per turn, i think you pick "one additional" unit from "those", and "those" are said to be "within 7" of one or more non-vehicle units that consist only of models with this special rule". You dont just select one unit on the battlefield, you select one additional unit from those that had been affected by strength from death proc.

That's the main question.

Because the Warhost of Ynnead doesn't mention Strength from Death.
It says Soulburst Action.
And even vehicles have that part.

It's a mess because the book keeps on citing Soulburst action, which is not a defined rule, instead of Strength from Death:

can make a Soulburst action when they are within 14" of a unit that is destroyed, rather than 7".

Which looks like they intended Soulburst action as the name of the rule. But it is not.


Because they have one clear piece of rule too:

Word of the Phoenix is a psychic power that targets a friendly unit with the Strength from Death special rule within 24". That unit can immediately make a Soulburst action

It's not a blessing (the others have that word in bold), so this one can affect a vehicle, because those have the Strength from Death special rule.


They should have worded all the others like this, but chose the ambiguous Soulburst action.


I have played a tournament, with my home brewed FAQ for the TO, but we still had one hickup, where we had to turn the BRB back and forth, for around 10 minutes...

Word of Phoenix i agree, nothing says non-vehicle in the power itself.
Too bad Runeweaver host is not available formation for the Reborn.

Tyrpak wrote:
That Imperial Knight lacks the Ynnari Faction, and is not part of the Ynnari Warhost..
...

Which doesn't matter. Assume a Reborn Warhost Detachment with 7 units and an allied Oathbound detachment with an Imperial Knight. A unit dies within 7" of a Ynnari unit, this triggers SfD and permits a soulburst action.

Reborn Warhost Detachment - Command Benefits - Warhost of Ynnead:
If this Detachment includes 7 or more units, you can select one additional unit to make a Soulburst action each time a unit is destroyed.

Note that it doesn't require that the unit needs to be part of the warhost. So I see nothing preventing me to soulburst an allied Imperial Knight. If you choose to start reading the SfD Rule only after the conditions are explained as suggested in this thread, you can just pick an additional unit. Any unit. No range, no unit type, no faction, no detachment or other requirement. Yes, that is silly, but ignoring one requirement or all requirements of the soulburst action is equally unsound.

Obviously the RAI is that the Command Benefit modifies the SfD rule from being able to pick one eligible unit to being able to pick two eligible units for a Soulburst action.

There is no separate rule or power description for a soulburst action. The closest you can get to that would be to cover half of the first paragraph in the SfD rule with your thumb while reading the rule.

Via Fracture of Biel-tan FAQ:
Q: Does the additional unit chosen from the Warhost of Ynnead rule also need to be within 7" of the destroyed unit?
A: Yes.

 Galef wrote:
Via Fracture of Biel-tan FAQ:
Q: Does the additional unit chosen from the Warhost of Ynnead rule also need to be within 7" of the destroyed unit?
A: Yes.

Awesome, great to get an official answer! =]
Thank you.