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Among my local group we've just agreed on an Apoc game between two Guard Players (Infantry Heavy) and a Tyranid player (Monstrous Creature Heavy) at 4500pts a side. We've already agreed on board layout and special rules. Victory is tabling only.
More detailed summary of lists:
Spoiler:
IG: ~200 Guardsmen w/ varying equipment, Creed, 2 SPG's (Deathstrike, Colossus), Battery of 3 Thudd Guns, Fortress of Redemption, 3 Salamanders (the tanks), 3 Sentry Guns and some Rough Riders.
Total Heavy/Specials: 30 Snipers, 9 Plasmas, 4 Grenades, 2 Flamers, 3 Autocannons, 3 Lascannons, 3 Missile Launchers, 3 Mortars, 3 HB's.
Our lists are pretty much set in stone because it's all of what we have.
Tyranid: Not sure exactly but the player has - Genestealer Cult (models from Overkill), 6 Stonecrusher Carnifexes, normal Carnifexes, 2 Trygons, Swarmlord, Hive Tyrant, Toxicrene, Tyrannocyte, Tyrannofex, Exocrine, Tervigon, Endless Swarm, ~90 Termagaunts, ~90 Hormagaunts, ~12 Warriors, Biovores, Venomthropes, Deathleaper). He generally buys regeneration for his Monstrous Creatures.
He could pretty much bring anything (model-wise), he'd buy stuff for this game etc.
Speaking as one of the Guard Players, we've been planning this out and believe we lack the capability to effectively eliminate or resist his Monstrous Creature tide, especially if he concentrates and focuses a flank.
Our current plan of action is to focus everything on eliminating synapse creatures (believing him to be rather light for the points level) in the hope that the big Monsters lose control and eat each other but we're new to fighting Nids so we're not sure if that's going to work.
-------------------------------------------
Any IG players with experience against Nids and more specifically Nidzilla - what worked for you?
Any Nid Players with experience running these lists against Guard - what worked against you?
Any other suggestions or ideas?
Thanks
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/02/27 22:52:23
The premise is heavily skewed in favour of the Tyranids. Apocalypse has victory conditions just like normal 40k. Insist on them and not tabling. You will never finish the game. With the Cult they will assault your lines turn one. Use speedbump units of guardsmen. Synapse doesn't work like that. At best a unit gets Pinned and most of his MCs will keep on coming towards you. The Salamanders come with Autocanon\H.Bolter? There are not enough flamers! Also who has 30 snipers? How are they organised? I suggest 10 man units of Ratlings so you can force wounds on MCs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/27 23:22:31
You shouldn't be worried about the one bullet with your name on it, Boldric. You should be worried about the ones labelled "to whom it may concern"-from Blackadder goes Forth!
Yeah, we realized pretty much after agreeing to the game that this would be an uphill battle, if winnable at all.
We'll have to look at the Apoc Victory Conditions and then talk with the Nid Player to see if he agrees. We're planning to do this at a 24 hour event so hopefully we'll have enough time xD.
I'm not familiar with the cult but I've heard they have pretty nasty rules. Any counters apart from bubble-wrapping and flamers (which we don't have enough of xD)?
Hmmm I was hoping Synapse would be more of an issue for a Nid army but I suppose it was too much to wish for an Achilles heel.
Yes the Salamanders have AC/HB. We plan to outflank them and hit valuable units at the rear of his army, perhaps venomthropes etc.
Yes. Not enough Flamers but that's our armies lol. Fluff-wise, we're just ill-equipped for the engagement ahead.
30 Ratlings (3 Squads of 10). We plan for them to be on the Fortress Battlements for 3+ cover saves and Void Shields (to buy them as much time as we can).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/28 00:03:53
Whether synapse is an issue depends on what units are being taken. Different units have different types of instinctive behaviour, so will roll on various charts when they fail a test.
Gaunts of any flavour will suffer heavily if they're out of it. Removing synapse will effectively take them out of the game.
With the bigger bugs it depends. Some can get by without it, and some kinda need it. Take carnifexes for example. If multiple carnifexes are in a unit that fails IB, then they have a 50% chance of doing nothing for the turn and attacking each other (1 automatic hit per model). The other 50% of the time they lose the ability to shoot, and have to try and charge the nearest enemy unit.
If the carnifexes are in units of 1 model, they are less affected by failing a test. Only the second result can occur. This is still pretty bad for them if they're loaded out with guns. But melee carnifexes won't care much.
If he is taking regeneration on all his MCs, then you should thank him. That's 30 points per model, which stacks up very fast, and all you need to do is focus fire on one model at a time instead of spreading your fire across the army. Unless you give him a bunch of partially damaged models each turn, regen is wasted points.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/02/28 07:52:12
With that many bugs and GSC be prepared for psychic shanagins. GSC can summon more units every turn and Nidz have some great attack psychic powers. Your best bet is have some dice of your own to deny with. Does he have multiple Flying Hive Tyrants? or just one? if so he may be light on flyers so It might be an idea to get some and punish him for it but if he has 3 or more he will likely win the air flyrants are brutal.
I'm not familiar with the cult but I've heard they have pretty nasty rules. Any counters apart from bubble-wrapping and flamers (which we don't have enough of xD)?
That's pretty much it apart from transports - but transports can also be death traps. GSC have cheap models with a hellton of rending attacks that can bring down anything and can attack at any part of the board. You got to focus down their characters. It won't be easy cause they get auto-look outs even in challenges. So, the best way would be to cogno-line a couple conscript squads around your guard dudes and hope that he won't shoot down too many of them before charging in.
Luckilly, most of his mc aren't too fast and you'll have a couple turns before tarpitting them. It's way easier to deal with all those fexes than with choppy and quick gsc.
Timeshadow wrote: With that many bugs and GSC be prepared for psychic shanagins. GSC can summon more units every turn and Nidz have some great attack psychic powers. Your best bet is have some dice of your own to deny with. Does he have multiple Flying Hive Tyrants? or just one? if so he may be light on flyers so It might be an idea to get some and punish him for it but if he has 3 or more he will likely win the air flyrants are brutal.
That's a good point. We don't have a single psyker on the Imperial side so we can barely resist any powers at all.
He doesn't have a single flyrant; his Hive Tyrant is a walker with a heavy venom cannon BUT he could potentially buy/build one or more before the game.
Unfortunately we can't capitalise even if he does have an aerial weakness - we lack flyers too xD
Timeshadow wrote: With that many bugs and GSC be prepared for psychic shanagins. GSC can summon more units every turn and Nidz have some great attack psychic powers. Your best bet is have some dice of your own to deny with. Does he have multiple Flying Hive Tyrants? or just one? if so he may be light on flyers so It might be an idea to get some and punish him for it but if he has 3 or more he will likely win the air flyrants are brutal.
That's a good point. We don't have a single psyker on the Imperial side so we can barely resist any powers at all.
He doesn't have a single flyrant; his Hive Tyrant is a walker with a heavy venom cannon BUT he could potentially buy/build one or more before the game.
Unfortunately we can't capitalise even if he does have an aerial weakness - we lack flyers too xD
I would suggest adding some imperial psychics to the mix, there are several formations and all you need to do is repaint some pistol guardsmen and model a few staves to make wyrdvane psykers and have a few impressive looking ones for imperial psykers but don't sink too much into it just so you can get 4-5 extra dice to deny with. Precience (which is a primis) is great for shootie units like guard. A good suggestion is to add a small inquisition detachment with Coteaz. Not only is he a psyker but his "I knew you were coming" power lets the unit he is in shoot at any unit that comes from reserves within 12" of him this deals with some of the nasty GSC tricks. He can have Acolyte squads with as few as 2 and a psyker for more added cheap warp charge as well. for as little as 160 pts you can get coteaz and 3 min acolyte/psyker squads giving 5 total WC.
