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Ok,
here is my finely tuned pure Angel's blade list. I had a sanguinary priest on a bike there, but upgrading excisting units felt better eventually. Also had hard time between meltacide vs. bike squad. Anyway list should be quite self explanatory regarding battlefield roles and reserves, so what do you guys think?


Angel's blade strike force
Command benefits: re-roll WT, +1 initiative on the charge, zealot when atleast half dead from a unit.

The Golden Host (570p) Command 0-5
T2+ automatic reserve arrival, disordered charge on the turn the units arrive from DS.

Commander Dante
5man sanguinary guard + 2x inferno pistol

5man sanguinary guard

Battle demi-company (1224p) Core 1+

Captain + artificer armour + jump pack + storm shield + Valour's edge (ap2 power sword)
Command squad + jump packs + 3x melta gun + 3x storm shield

Dreadnought + extra armour + heavy flamer + multi-melta >> drop pod + locator beacon

5man tactical squad + heavy flamer >> rhino

5man tactical squad + heavy flamer + 2x hand flamer >> drop pod

5man tactical squad + melta gun + 2x inferno pistol >> drop pod + locator beacon

5man devastator squad + 2x grav cannon >> rhino

4man bike squad + 2x grav gun + combi-grav

Rapid assault force (55p) Auxiliary 1+

Attack bike + multi-melta

Okay;

As a non-blood angels marine player, my advice will be limited; but guess it might be worth something?

First of all; I've gotta ask how much you paid for double pistol gunslinger-sgts? cool idea, but surely that cant be effective? maybe it is? just seems.... unorthodox. I thought about doing a similar thing with grav pistols on my vanilla marines.

Don't know if its a typo; but that jump command squad currently has an unshielded, non melta jump marine? ablative wound? or did you forget the Apothecary?

Devastators with Grav cannons in a rhino? firing from the top hatch? seems legit. might as well protect that 70point investment with the cost of a 3rd gun?

attack bike w multi-melta looks good. been trolled by these lone attack bikes more times than I'd care to admit.
Not sure I like the heavy flamers of 5 man units? that said; I may just be jealous?

Hope this helps?
GamerGuy

It's a way to squeeze in more melta. I don't use them much myself, but it's a thing with BA players.

 GamerGuy wrote:
Okay;

As a non-blood angels marine player, my advice will be limited; but guess it might be worth something?

First of all; I've gotta ask how much you paid for double pistol gunslinger-sgts? cool idea, but surely that cant be effective? maybe it is? just seems.... unorthodox. I thought about doing a similar thing with grav pistols on my vanilla marines.

Don't know if its a typo; but that jump command squad currently has an unshielded, non melta jump marine? ablative wound? or did you forget the Apothecary?

Devastators with Grav cannons in a rhino? firing from the top hatch? seems legit. might as well protect that 70point investment with the cost of a 3rd gun?

attack bike w multi-melta looks good. been trolled by these lone attack bikes more times than I'd care to admit.
Not sure I like the heavy flamers of 5 man units? that said; I may just be jealous?

Hope this helps?
GamerGuy

The hand flamers are only 10 points and all template weapons are measured before firing so they all get max hits. Blood Angel command squads come with an apothecary base for no additional points. A unit that shoots a rhino is a unit that would have shot the devs if they weren't inside.

Yeah I got the rhino thing; wasn't a criticism so much as checking we were on the same wavelength, because lets face it a rhino pushing forward aggressively is a squad that's gonna die fast.

-Didn't know the Apothecary was base, we vanilla marines upgrade one; thanks for the heads up!

Those handflamers sound like a bargain! if Only my salamanders could get pistol flamer/meltas!
GamerGuy

 GamerGuy wrote:
Yeah I got the rhino thing; wasn't a criticism so much as checking we were on the same wavelength, because lets face it a rhino pushing forward aggressively is a squad that's gonna die fast.

-Didn't know the Apothecary was base, we vanilla marines upgrade one; thanks for the heads up!

Those handflamers sound like a bargain! if Only my salamanders could get pistol flamer/meltas!
GamerGuy

The fact that a 10 man tac squad can have 4 template weapons is kind of crazy but the hand flamers are only STR 3. For whatever reason BA get heavy flamers as an option for our tacs, hand flamers and inferno pistols, even though there's a chapter deticated for fire and melta.

It's the only assault weapon that tacs can conceivably have. I'm sure that's why.

Well BA battle demi-company is very restrictive on what you must bring. Gunglingers are expensive yes, but for example the double inferno pistol has worked with me doing the single job done when arriving from a drop pod, although this has always been with assault squad and two inferno and two melta guns. I took the biker route so that's a substitute unit for that job. I've never fielded in a competitive environment the double hand flamers, but model looks cool and three templates against 6+ armour save unit can be worthwhile (cultists, boys etc.)

In my last game last weekend my Baal predator was popped with a single melta shot via drop pod. I want to believe that with less than 10" scatter I can manage to get three melta shots at a target.

Dropping hand flamers or swapping the inferno's to basic combi-melta I could squeeze in a veritas vitae for the captain for two WT's, but this game isn't all about power gaming. Friends I play with don't have the top tiers either. Still I always like to have a list that I could field in a local tournament and not get totally ass-whooped. Yes I lack anti-air, but all corners is very hard to do with BA.

Grav and BA isn't fluffy, but I want to think that in my list it's a hint of competitiveness that GW has forced me to take.

I think so far fragioso's and the grav bikers have been my MvP's all around, in every game. Angel's blade helps me to force myself try something different.

For the GamerGuy, BA rhino's are 10p costier than SM counter parts, but we are fast. Rushing a rhino into a midfield objective and staying stationary has proven my grav cannon's many times effective, even with only two cannons.

I played Angels Blade to great success with a very solid win record against Iron hands and imperial guard.

I can tell you right now that battle demi-company is a terrible option. You are getting little to no benefit. You want the archangels core ALWAYS period. At least you get to benefit from the detachment bonuses as well as the formation bonuses. Put the furiosos in drop pods with frag cannons, you can use min sized squads of vanguard vets if you need the points or field more terminators.

With dante as warlord models with jump packs will greatly benefit arriving with no scatter letting you place your flamers or meltas with dead on accuracy on vanguard vets.

Seriously though the detachment bonus is the same as the formation bonus when using the battle demi company so unlike every other marine army you are getting 0 benefit from using your special detachment. Which in turn makes your choices weaker by comparison

"I can tell you right now that battle demi-company is a terrible option."

I actually disagree with this. I don't like the archangels core at all, actually. I'm more interested in cost effective units and tacking on some to the angel's blade subformations.

Blood Angels demi-company gains you no real benefit you may as well be playing CAD or something else. Don't bother with angel's blade if you dont make use of the archangels core formation.

 Akaiyou wrote:
Blood Angels demi-company gains you no real benefit you may as well be playing CAD or something else. Don't bother with angel's blade if you dont make use of the archangels core formation.

I disagree. There are lists I can make with an Angel's Blade that I can't with a CAD. Plus all the sub formations within angel's blade get all the rules. For example. with angel's blade, I can have a golden host with Dante, but still have Dante give his warlord trait to the entire list.

As I said, I don't like the archangels core formation.

I disagree with your statement CAD isn't the only other option, you can do a Baal Strike Force and get the same benefits as the demi-company without all the taxes included, and you can add formations from angel's blade.

Again the demi-company is a waste of time. But sure feel free to use it if it floats your boat. I have like an 85% win rate with the archangels core formation and it ensures that a maximize the benefits to my entire army.

YMMV

I don't like the body count on an archangels core formation. BA vanguards aren't good, and neither are terminators.

Vanguard and Terminators aren't the cheesiest units I agree. But vanguard aren't terrible when you play them to their strengths.

They are good at assaulting multiple units while keeping their assault bonuses. I try to use them to lock things in combat until the real heavy hitters show up.

If you use 5 units of vanguard and use them properly you'd still have enough points to invest in some real powaa. Including Orbital Strike Force where the terminators def aren't bad at all when they deep strike and assault.

The conversation hasn't really been about the lists competitiveness, more about Angel's blade all together.

I haven't seen many lists involving Karlaen that I might even field, too expensive way too fast. But here is a go from Akaiyou's pov on the formation + CAD, which of the two lists would you rather field? The pure AB or the Karlaen and OIF:

Combined Arms Detachment (ob. sec.) OR Baal Strike Force (red thirst)
I'm leaning towards CAD, because not many of the units really benefit from the red thirst. My biggest concern is the lack of jump infantry, which grant better mobility. Feedback and improvement suggestions are most welcome (I own only 5 pairs of TH&SS hands, all in the list already). Extra armour on the fragiosos are more of an dunno what to do with the last 30 points.. Also there's no long range dakka, but I want to think that mobility of the bikes and precision deep striking units will try to counter that issue.

1849 points of Blood Angels

HQ
Captain Karlaen

TROOP
5man scout squad + 5x sniper + camo cloaks
5man scout squad + combat blades + power sword + veteran sergeant + teleport homer

ELITE
Furioso dreadnought + frag cannon + extra armour >> drop pod
Furioso dreadnought + frag cannon + extra armour >> drop pod + locator beacon

FAST
5man assault squad + 2x melta gun + 2x inferno pistol >> drop pod + locator beacon
4man bike squad + 2x grav gun + combi-grav
Attack bike + multi-melta

HEAVY
5man devastator squad + 2x grav cannon + armorium cherub >> rhino

The Orbital Intervention Force

5man assault squad + 3x thunder hammer & storm shield

5man assault squad + 2x thunder hammer & storm shield

5man terminator squad + assault cannon + chain fist

This looks good however I strongly recommend you set it up as a Baal Strike Force as I suggested in an earlier post. Currently you only have 2 units benefiting from objective secured and they are only 2 scout units that can easily be removed from said objectives. At least with the benefits from Baal detachment any unit declaring a charge will have a bigger impact. More units would benefit from red thrist than from objective secured.

Xirax wrote:
The conversation hasn't really been about the lists competitiveness, more about Angel's blade all together.

I haven't seen many lists involving Karlaen that I might even field, too expensive way too fast. But here is a go from Akaiyou's pov on the formation + CAD, which of the two lists would you rather field? The pure AB or the Karlaen and OIF:

Combined Arms Detachment (ob. sec.) OR Baal Strike Force (red thirst)
I'm leaning towards CAD, because not many of the units really benefit from the red thirst. My biggest concern is the lack of jump infantry, which grant better mobility. Feedback and improvement suggestions are most welcome (I own only 5 pairs of TH&SS hands, all in the list already). Extra armour on the fragiosos are more of an dunno what to do with the last 30 points.. Also there's no long range dakka, but I want to think that mobility of the bikes and precision deep striking units will try to counter that issue.

1849 points of Blood Angels

HQ
Captain Karlaen

TROOP
5man scout squad + 5x sniper + camo cloaks
5man scout squad + combat blades + power sword + veteran sergeant + teleport homer

ELITE
Furioso dreadnought + frag cannon + extra armour >> drop pod
Furioso dreadnought + frag cannon + extra armour >> drop pod + locator beacon

FAST
5man assault squad + 2x melta gun + 2x inferno pistol >> drop pod + locator beacon
4man bike squad + 2x grav gun + combi-grav
Attack bike + multi-melta

HEAVY
5man devastator squad + 2x grav cannon + armorium cherub >> rhino

The Orbital Intervention Force

5man assault squad + 3x thunder hammer & storm shield

5man assault squad + 2x thunder hammer & storm shield

5man terminator squad + assault cannon + chain fist

That's probably true.