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Hi guys.
I'm playing a friendly match of 40k maelstrom 1850p with my orks against a friend of mine next week, he will be playing dark angels and I know he will be bringing an imperial knight as well.

Is there someone here willing to give me some advice on what to bring against him and some tactica on how to play him?
I'm especially worried about the imperial knight, have no clue how to handle that

I own about 70 boys 10 nobs, 12 lootas, 9 mega nobs, gretchens, 10 tankbusters, grazkhul, a morganaut, 3 trucks, a bw, 2 planes, and all hq's + 5 or so warbosses.

No bikes or choppers.

Help is appreciated

The only way for orks to deal with an IK is to shoot at it with lootas and tankbustas and assault with pks. But most of the times ignoring it and focussing on scoring points is the best tactic if you face an IK.

Well a warboss with a power klaw is hitting it on 3's and glancing on 3's. Upgrades like DLS and/or an attack squig give re-rolls to speed up the rate of hull point stripping.

Meganobz with klaws and killsaws will take it down

Herreford wrote:
Hi guys.
I'm playing a friendly match of 40k maelstrom 1850p with my orks against a friend of mine next week, he will be playing dark angels and I know he will be bringing an imperial knight as well.

Is there someone here willing to give me some advice on what to bring against him and some tactica on how to play him?
I'm especially worried about the imperial knight, have no clue how to handle that

I own about 70 boys 10 nobs, 12 lootas, 9 mega nobs, gretchens, 10 tankbusters, grazkhul, a morganaut, 3 trucks, a bw, 2 planes, and all hq's + 5 or so warbosses.

No bikes or choppers.

Help is appreciated

What kind of IK?

DA, probs with a bunch of plasma and bikers right?

Hmm.

Try this:

 slip wrote:

Herreford wrote:
Hi guys.
I'm playing a friendly match of 40k maelstrom 1850p with my orks against a friend of mine next week, he will be playing dark angels and I know he will be bringing an imperial knight as well.

Is there someone here willing to give me some advice on what to bring against him and some tactica on how to play him?
I'm especially worried about the imperial knight, have no clue how to handle that

I own about 70 boys 10 nobs, 12 lootas, 9 mega nobs, gretchens, 10 tankbusters, grazkhul, a morganaut, 3 trucks, a bw, 2 planes, and all hq's + 5 or so warbosses.

No bikes or choppers.

Help is appreciated

What kind of IK?

DA, probs with a bunch of plasma and bikers right?

Hmm.

Try this:

Spoiler:

Great Waaaghband!

Council of Waaagh!

Ghazghkull
225

2x Warboss - MA
100(200)

Mad Doc Grotsnick
185

Big Mek - MFF
110

3 Nobz - Waaagh! Banner, 3x BC
80

760

Waaaghband!

Warboss - MA, DLS
125

Mek
15

3x MANz - Battlewagon, RR, Rokkit
240

6x 10 Boyz - Nob, PK, BP
100(600)

10 Grots
35

1015

Auxiliary

2x 10 Grots
35(70)

1850

Create a MANztar using Ghaz, Mad Doc, 3x MAWB and the unit of MANz. Ghaz will be Warlord. This formation allows you to call a Waaagh! every turn after the first. Ghaz and any MA models in his unit may run during a Waaagh! Ghaz also recieves a 2++ on any turn he Waaaghs. So him and his MANz can spend turn one getting close, than Waaagh turns 2-6 for basically a permanent 2++, with a 5+ FNP. Him and DLS MAWB can tank massive damage here. He'll be safe in the wagon the one turn he's vulnerable.

For the rest, make a screen with the grots and then have the boyz move up behind them. Put the MFF here. Your opponent will not be happy wasting firepower on 3 pt gretchin with a 4++. You can just check moving your Big Mek backwards into another unit if you do end up sustaining heavy casualties.

I'm a trukk rush guy, but honestly... I don't think you have enough to be effective. You need like 8 at 1850, I usually have 3 get blown up per turn. It's better for your force to just move as one single wave, be it fast or slow, than going half and half. The wagon is fine because non of those MANz will take a wound, and after that turn they can run anyway!

As for the IK... I don't think you have the tools to kill it at range. You're gonna have to get close. Try tarpitting it with grots so you can like up a charge with boyz mobs and let the pk nobs do work. Maybe split the DLS MAWB off to join it, but I'd be hesitant to put the whole MANztar in there vs him in the off chance they just get removed from the board.

Anyway, the MANztar should tank enough damage to get the rest of your force down the board. Play the objectives and you should come out on top.

Are you sure ghaz gains the 2+ on the whaagh when it's not called by him, but the warboss of the core detachment ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seeing as the command detachment does the have the stampede rule, that only the core detachment, so the warboss in that has to be warlord, not ghaz

Sorry, I don't totally follow that, I may have missed something so bear with me here.

The Great Waaaghband functions as the primary detachment. The entry reads:

Da Great Waaagh! Band: If this Detachment contains your Warlord and he has the Waaagh! special rule, he can call a Waaagh! each and every turn, including the first turn.

Thus establishing whomever the warlord is, as long as he is in the Great Waaaghband detachment, he can Waaagh every turn. This does not regard the Stampede rule as far as I can tell.

Now the Great Waaaghband detachment is comprised of two formations, a Waaaghband, and the Waaagh Council.

What rule states you have to draw your warlord from the waaaghband formation as opposed to the waaagh council formation for your Great Waaaghband detachment? It's the Great Waaagh that is the primary detachment, the the regular waaaghband and waaagh council are formations within that primary detachment.

Forgive me, but it seems like you are mixing up the Great Waaagh Band detachment with the Great Waaagh Detachment, and the Warband formation with the Waaagh Band formation, which are four totally different things.

Regardless, my source for these rules are here: http://bloodofkittens.com/orks/ Maybe it can help shed light on the situation.

Herreford wrote:
Hi guys.
I'm playing a friendly match of 40k maelstrom 1850p with my orks against a friend of mine next week, he will be playing dark angels and I know he will be bringing an imperial knight as well.

Is there someone here willing to give me some advice on what to bring against him and some tactica on how to play him?
I'm especially worried about the imperial knight, have no clue how to handle that

I own about 70 boys 10 nobs, 12 lootas, 9 mega nobs, gretchens, 10 tankbusters, grazkhul, a morganaut, 3 trucks, a bw, 2 planes, and all hq's + 5 or so warbosses.

No bikes or choppers.

Help is appreciated

Your opponent is going to be running around the table with 3+ Jinking bikes and some rerollable jink cover saves. And of course the Knight. You completely lack Dakka and mobility.....

Without using formations and nonsense Lets see if this works for you.

HQ:

Warboss: DLS, PK, Eavy Armor.
Painboy:
Mekboy (NFOS)
Mekboy (NFOS)

ELITES:

Meganobz: 1 Meganob Boss and 2 Meganobz with Kill Saws. Trukk W/Ram
Meganobz: 1 Meganob Boss and 2 Meganobz with Kill Saws. Trukk W/Ram
Meganobz: 1 Meganob Boss and 2 Meganobz with Kill Saws. Trukk W/Ram

TROOPS:

Boyz: 25 Boyz and Nob/PK
Boyz: 25 Boyz and Nob/PK
Boyz: 18 Boyz and Nob/PK

FAST ATTACK:
Burna Bommer: 6x Skorcha Missiles
Burna Bommer: 6x Skorcha Missiles

HEAVY SUPPORT:
BattleWagon: Ram and 4 Big Shootas
Lootas: 8 Lootas

First, Warboss and Painboy and 1 of the Mekboyz attach to Small Boyz squad and get in the Battlewagon, this is your Anti-HQ unit. Drive this BW as fast as possible towards the enemies HQ, Get out, assault. Use the Mekboy to eat the challenge and then lay waste with a Warboss and Nob using PKs AND they are at WS6 and WS5 . Painboy is there to mitigate wounds and to ensure if the BW goes boom that you don't lose to many guys.

Next, your 3 units of Meganobz are to be used as Manz Missiles. shoot them up the field towards that enemy Knight and or any other large scary vehicles, or if necessary use them to feth up some enemy elite infantry/bikes. Just make sure you use these to kill that knight! With 2 KillSaws you have 10 S10 AP2 armorbane attacks. Yeah the knight will get to swing first but he is still only WS4 with 3 attacks, so unless he gets some seriously lucky rolls hes only going to kill 1 or 2 out of 6-9 (Depending how many units you attack him with)

To deal with those Pesky bikers who are going to be shooting up the field with their stupid 3+ Jink saves and their rerollable BS you have brought 2 Burna Bommers, which are literally the only Ignores cover ranged weapons we have access to :( Bring these on the field as soon as you can and either drop the bombs on the bikes or fire off those Missiles. The Vehicle rules state you can fire 4 weapons at FULL BS and then have to snapshot everything else. So fire 4 Missiles on turn 1 and then snap shot your TL Supa Shoota and TL Big Shoota. Yeah you won't get to ignore the Marines 3+ armor but he won't get rerollable jink saves nor benefit from the 2+ Jink save shenanigans, this will really annoy him , And one of the biggest failings for most DA lists is they don't take any anti-air so boom those planes might actually make their points back for a change.

Finally you have 2 big units of Boyz and a unit of Lootas. The Boyz are just chaff and objective holders. Theres nothing special about them, but they are big enough to deal with the DA's nonsense if they choose to be stupid and attempt to assault you. The Lootas are best used camping a backfield objective (preferably in cover) and lighting up whatever you feel needs a good Dakking.



NOTE: A lot of people feel they need AP 1-3 to deal with those SM bikes to force them to jink, to quote admiral Ackbar "its a trap" they don't care to much because at most they are packing some Plasma or maybe a grav gun or two, the real problem is they don't die and are super fast. Try to get into assaults with them, but failing that just shoot the piss out of them with those Burna Bommers and don't sweat it. The trick here is to not get dragged into HIS game. He is faster and has more Dakka, you are Stronger and like to hit things with sharpened metal.

 slip wrote:
Sorry, I don't totally follow that, I may have missed something so bear with me here.

The Great Waaaghband functions as the primary detachment. The entry reads:

Da Great Waaagh! Band: If this Detachment contains your Warlord and he has the Waaagh! special rule, he can call a Waaagh! each and every turn, including the first turn.

Thus establishing whomever the warlord is, as long as he is in the Great Waaaghband detachment, he can Waaagh every turn. This does not regard the Stampede rule as far as I can tell.

Now the Great Waaaghband detachment is comprised of two formations, a Waaaghband, and the Waaagh Council.

What rule states you have to draw your warlord from the waaaghband formation as opposed to the waaagh council formation for your Great Waaaghband detachment? It's the Great Waaagh that is the primary detachment, the the regular waaaghband and waaagh council are formations within that primary detachment.

Forgive me, but it seems like you are mixing up the Great Waaagh Band detachment with the Great Waaagh Detachment, and the Warband formation with the Waaagh Band formation, which are four totally different things.

Regardless, my source for these rules are here: http://bloodofkittens.com/orks/ Maybe it can help shed light on the situation.

what i mean is, in a Ork great whaaagh band, you need 1 core choice and 1 command choice in order to include ghaz.

the rule stampede, is a rule attatched to the Core formation reads: if the formations warboss is your warlord, he can use the whaag each and every turn after the first.

meaning that the warboss of the Core formation, have to be the warlord in order for this to work.
lets say i do this. great i can call a whaag every turn after the first.

however, the rule for ghaz reads; if ghaz is your warlord (witch he isnt if i want to whaag every turn) he gains 2+ invul save on any turn HE calls a whaag.

meaning that i cannot give ghaz a +2 invuln save every turn after the first.

It doesn't have anything to do with stampede. You are using the special rule "Da Great Waaagh! Band" to Waaagh on every turn, not Stampede.



There's a part there that says:

Da Great Waaagh! Band: If this Detachment contains your Warlord and he has the Waaagh! special rule, he can call a Waaagh! each and every turn, including the first turn.

You get "Da Great Waaagh! Band" special rule from the decurion style detachment which grants it's rules to all the formations underneath it, thus granting Da Great Waaagh! Band rule to the council of waaagh. It overrides stampede.

Do you see the difference between "Stampede" and "Da Great Waaagh Band"? They are two different special rules. You cannot Waaagh on the first turn with stampede, but you can with "Da Great Waaagh Band". One grants stampede to it's formation, the other grants Da Great Waaagh Band to it's entire detachment, including the two formations that form it.

Here's an article by the guys who run ITC using this exact same detachment to get a full game 2++ on ghazghkull.

It is a legal list. But I'm getting cranky so I will drop it. Good luck with your game man, all the best.

 slip wrote:
I have no idea where you are getting stampede from, neither of those formations include that as a special rule.



Here's an article by the guys who run ITC using this exact same detachment to get a 2++ on ghazghkull.

The solution to this presented itself in the Great WAAGH!-Band with the possibility of getting Ghaz in there and making him the Warlord which grants the army Fearless when he calls his WAAGH! Amazing, right?! You bet…but there’s a catch. To get Ghaz, you have to the the Council of WAAGH! formation (unless I have missed a way to get him, otherwise which if so, please correct my mistake in the comments section!) as a command section, which is a REALLY expensive formation. 600pts with no upgrades at all, and it dictates how you play Ghaz as he must be in that unit and cannot leave. So, you’re stuck with a psuedo Deathstar, even if you don’t like playing that way, and an expensive one, too. With just some basic upgrades and a mandatory transport vehicle, you’re looking at an 800pt investment. Ouch. Luckily though, you can take a Battlewagon as the mandatory Auxiliary section to complete the detachment, which helps a bit.

It literally can not be more clear. If you don't want to use it that's fine but I'm not going to run around in this circle with you. It is a legal list.

i am appreciating your help, and its most likely me mixing things up. i got my information from searching dakka threads and random articles so my information might be outdated AF.

just looked it up in the supplement and as you say, i cannot see why it shoulndt be possible.
thanks for setting me straight

Ah crap, I was hoping to get that edit in. Sorry I'm cranky, first thing in the morning here lol. Seriously though, just run whatever list you like and let us know how it goes.

Well, a result on my game was that i was utterly destroyed, after 3 rounds i had 10 boys and grotsnik left.

His ability to owerwatch with his bs ment that those 10man ork boy groups Were more or less dead, og they even made The charge after loosing 2/3rds of The squad. The rest died to The higher I of The marines.

My meganobs did fairly good but was killed by the knight, and my command formation was killed in turn 2 when i charged a group of 5 marines with their overwatch+4 landspeeders that apparently also could shoot when i charged The marines.

Think ill not play against DA again lol

DA can be tough but eldar, tau, regular marines are way more effective. Even necrons, space wolves and daemons che be tougher than DA for orks. You just need more practise, orks are not an easy army to play, in order to learn how to make your army efficient you have to play a lot of games. Which also means a lot of (bad) losses, that's inevitable.

I dont mind loosing, i feel like i learned something.

I just felt like everything my army was good at, Got nulified by his overwatch.. i feel like i Would have done better with a gazilion looters and just dakka dakka everything.

So it was a bit disapointing that my close quarters army Got destroyed by trying to charge.

Against strong overwatch an invaluable unit is a single deffkopta, charge with it and that 30 points model will eat the overwatch, letting your boyz/meganobz/bikes charge without casualties. You can even use some crippled boyz squad that has its trukk wrecked in the prevoius turns and already suffered some casualties.

DA have nasty cover saves so you should focus on assaulting them. Go with a more MSU approach rather than relying on more shooty units, which are also useful. But you won't kill many DA bikes with lootas or rokkits, they would jink everything.