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Hi All-
A group of guys at my local store are all starting 30k armies and I've decided to join them. I've painted enough marines, so I decided to play Mechanicum and started reading the taghmata army book. Since I've never really played a tank focused army, and because I have a 6 riptide/crisis suit tau list, I've decided to build a tank focused Ordo Reductor list and not really focus on automata.

I've come across a few major questions - I'll put them to you and then share some illustrative lists. I really appreciate all of your thoughts and commentary, as I have no idea what 30k is like (other than lots of marines!).

-Heroes: I like the idea of an Archimandrite Archmagos giving all my tanks IWND, however since I still have to bring a Magos Reductor, that takes points from more tanks.

-Artillery Tanks: It strikes me Medusa's are the most efficient and flexible artillery tanks as they bring AP2. Should I focus on them, or bring some Mars Colossus Bombards/Minotaurs. On that note, the Minotaur just seems like a better Bombard (they are both 7" ap3), but is the extra strength and HP worth the 50 points?

-If I don't focus so heavily on tanks, I'd like to bring some myrmidons with either phased plasma fusils, graviton imploders, or irad engines. Pop them in a kriaros and jump them out to roast priority targets. Thoughts

-If I don't just maximize artillery tanks, then I'd like to bring a knight. Which one? A Porphyion doubles down on the gunline nature of the list, and brings some AA it's otherwise lacking. I like the look of the Atrapos in a mechanicum list, and it's undeniably powerful. A castigator would give me the counter-assault the list is otherwise lacking.

-Are there super-heavy tanks I ought to consider? It seems to say the mechanicum can bring super-heavy tanks available to other imperial armies, although its not clear in the little red book.

Anyway, all of my list brainstorming has revolved around these questions. Looking forward to your thoughts and ideas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here are three 2000 point lists that illustrate the issues.

Hero heavy with mixed artillery:

HQ
Magos Prime
Archmagos
Archimandrite
Djinn Skein
4x Cyber Occulari
Cyber Familiar
Machinator Array
Abeyant


Magos Reductor
Cyber Familiar
Machinator Array


Elites
Techpriest Auxillia
Additional Adept
4x Additional Servo-automata
Upgrade to Magos Auxillia


Troops
Thallax Cohort
Phased Plasma Fusil
Melta Bombs
Empyrite


Thallax Cohort
Phased Plasma Fusil
Melta Bombs
Empyrite


Adsecularis Covenant
10 Additional thralls
Induction Chargers
Carapace Armour


Heavy Support
OR Artillery Tank Battery
Artillery Tank
Medusa Cannon
Siege Plating
Artillery Tank
Medusa Cannon
Siege Plating
Machine Spirit
Artillery Tank
Medusa Cannon
Siege Plating
Machine Spirit


OR Minotaur Battery
Pintel Mounted Phased Plasma Fusil


Krios Tank Squadron
Krios Venator Tank

Krios Tank Squadron
Krios Venator Tank

Six Medusas

HQ
Magos Reductor
Archmagos
Archimandrite
Djinn Skein
4x Cyber Occulari
Cyber Familiar
Machinator Array
Abeyant



Elites
Techpriest Auxillia
Additional Adept
4x Additional Servo-automata
Upgrade to Magos Auxillia


Troops
Thallax Cohort
Phased Plasma Fusil
Melta Bombs
Empyrite


Thallax Cohort
Phased Plasma Fusil
Melta Bombs
Empyrite


Adsecularis Covenant
10 Additional thralls
Induction Chargers
Carapace Armour


Heavy Support
OR Artillery Tank Battery
Artillery Tank
Medusa Cannon
Siege Plating
Artillery Tank
Medusa Cannon
Siege Plating
Machine Spirit
Artillery Tank
Medusa Cannon
Siege Plating
Machine Spirit


OR Artillery Tank Battery
Artillery Tank
Medusa Cannon
Siege Plating
Artillery Tank
Medusa Cannon
Siege Plating
Machine Spirit
Artillery Tank
Medusa Cannon
Siege Plating
Machine Spirit

With a knight:

HQ
Magos Prime
Archmagos
Archimandrite
Djinn Skein
4x Cyber Occulari
Cyber Familiar
Machinator Array
Abeyant


Magos Reductor
Cyber Familiar
Machinator Array


Elites
Techpriest Auxillia
Additional Adept
4x Additional Servo-automata
Upgrade to Magos Auxillia


Troops
Thallax Cohort
Phased Plasma Fusil
Empyrite


Thallax Cohort
Phased Plasma Fusil
Empyrite


Heavy Support
OR Artillery Tank Battery
Artillery Tank
Medusa Cannon
Siege Plating
Artillery Tank
Medusa Cannon
Siege Plating


Krios Tank Squadron
Krios Venator Tank


OR Artillery Tank Battery
Artillery Tank
Mars Colossus Bombard
Siege Plating



Lord of War
Knight Porphyrion

Ive played alot of 30k admech and I can tell you while the arty is decent, the side Armour is really rough and they will evaporate to enemy fire or assault/drop/deepstrike/outflank

First of all do not pay for Empyrite unless you are playing zone mortalis, they can already deep strike, I am a big fan of Photon Thrusters due to the range. Think of them as snipers and use the assault move to go behind tanks for cover.
You should run at least two units of 1x Vultarax, this covers your anti-air and flare shielded AR14. No real need for cortex just be careful where you move them, they cant assault while in their fly mode so keep them in it.
I dont recommend Techpriest Auxillia unless you are running sentry guns for animus override.
You want more Adsecularis Covenant units, they suck but they do win you games. Take carapace and pure thought only.
Don't take 2 expensive HQ models in 2k IWND is not worth it vehicles will mostly be focused down one at a time. If you do take a second a cheap Ordnator with a jump pack cyber familiar and a MC photon thruster + power fist is good due to all his attacks gaining armourbane. Bombardment Also the Magos Reductor needs a good ranged weapon.

The Minotaurs live alot longer than the other arty but you need one in each corner and they have a big dead zone with their gun, however it is brutal and consistent when units are in its range to fire. Just make sure you can pop the transports with other units.
Don't over do it with tank you do need bodies to bubble wrap them.

A Knight is recommended but its hard to take advantage of 2 per slot at 2k. Ive only run a Knight Porphyrion once, it almost died to a drop podding dread with a chainfist, then proceed to kill 600 points of terminators in one round. Be aware it can be shut down by a Sicaran Venator.
It plays similar to a warhound.

Honestly I recommend steering clear of Reductor, this coming from a guy with 12 medusa's, 3 bombard's and 2 Minotaur's
With the kriaros being solid tanks and knights bringing the high ap blasts.
Stormlord + myrmidons had my attention tho I never tried it out.
Also look into Macrocarid Explorator with irradiation engines

A quick note on the vultarax - unless you're playing legio cybernetica with a huuuuuuge cortex controller bubble they will not fire at the thing you want them to.
without the benefit of long range cortex control they will preferentially fire at something in 12" and that typically will not be the AV14 flare sheild vehicle, it's usually a troop unit nearby, a dedicated bubble-wrap unit or an accompanying rhino. YMMV of course but thats how mine played.
If your solution to that is to load a macrocarid explorator up with toys and a magos w/cortex-controller then consider that Calleb Decima can take a macrocarid as a DT and also gets his 'curse of the omnissiah' attack (2d6 haywire shots).


Photon thrusters really should be left to the myrmidon destructors for best effect.


The destructor augment is your optimum augment for thallax - empyrite isn't worth taking because 'void-hardened' only has a use against blast/template weapons which are AP5 or worseand reduces your charge distance by 1". its really good in zone mortalis where every thallax can have a go at getting into combat and templtes get shred (flamers in a corridor anyone?) but doesn't do much for you in a normal game.


The fluff of the Ordo Reductor hints that the types of artillery available in the ORAT unit entry are comandeered assets; and that the Ordo Reductor is regarded with mistrust and suspicion by loyalist forces for their willingness to chuck 'lesser' artillery peices (like the basilisk) into a meatgrinder scenario because they actually care about the more complicated and venerated artillery systems like the minotaur.
Don't think about trying to make your ORAT units survive - roll them into the enemy DZ as quickly as possible, to hell with some getting killed! If the Omnissiah requires that you die, you die where he told you to...


An error in your six medusa-list? Ordo Reductor HQ choices don't have the 'orders of high techno arcana' rule and can't choose to be an archimandrite.


Also - WOT? no Triaroii?!?

He's a madman.... A MAAADMAN!!!

Thanks guys, this is a lot to think about. I'm glad I sat to theory some of this out before placing an order. I wanted to run a gun line and figured I'd pop the HQ(s) in with the techpeiests to run around fixing stuff. I was thinking of heroes as buff characters but it sounds like you are thinking of using them more aggressively. I like the Macrocarid as a Myrmidon delivery vehicle, but didn't want to lose the heavy support slot, guess Decima deserves a look. Would you take onslaught for an extra Heavy slot? I thought you needed empyrite to give thallax deep strike. I want to stay away from automata and having to worry about cortex controllers. The Stormlord is an interesting idea, can all Mechanicum factions bring Super heavy tanks or only redeuctor?

So, if you would indulge me, I would be interested in how you might build a 2000 point list with the limitation that I don't want cortex controlled automata, and that I tend toward shooty lists.

Best,
Christian


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lastly, do we have any access to interceptor I missed?

The wording on Reductor / Mechanicum bringing other Imperial tanks is rather fuzzy. I haven't tried it locally, though probably people would be okay with it.

As for an extra Heavy slot, don't forget the Matrix of Ruin grants you one for playing Ordo Reductor without any drawbacks really.

Lists are illegal I think, the Prime has to be warlord and thus can't be Archimandrite as the list must be lorded over by Archmagos Reductor or Magos Reductor.

HandofMars wrote:
Lists are illegal I think, the Prime has to be warlord and thus can't be Archimandrite as the list must be lorded over by Archmagos Reductor or Magos Reductor.

I don't think so, Master of the Covenant states the compulsory HQ choice must be Magos/Archmagos Reductor, or Caleb Decima. I don't see anywhere it says he has to be warlord.

Lastly, do we have any access to interceptor I missed?

Cyber Ocularii and augury scanner. Lots of them. That is what I do.

And normally I start with the compulsory stuff and than go on with the rest.
1 HQ, 2+ Standard, 2+ Support. Now with less Adsecularii and more Peltasts.
I also tend to use allmost never automata, because Ordo Reductor.
But 4+ tanks. Bombard are quite scary. Basilisk is....well....Basilisk.
AA is usually either a Whirwind or some Tarantulas.
An Archmagos Reductor in a Techpriest-bodyguard.
Macrocarid Explorator. Triaros.
Not very often a Stormsword.

chmcclellan wrote:

HandofMars wrote:
Lists are illegal I think, the Prime has to be warlord and thus can't be Archimandrite as the list must be lorded over by Archmagos Reductor or Magos Reductor.

I don't think so, Master of the Covenant states the compulsory HQ choice must be Magos/Archmagos Reductor, or Caleb Decima. I don't see anywhere it says he has to be warlord.

This is correct. The HQ 'tax' of Reductor is the Magus Reductor, there is no obligation for this unit to be the Warlord.

 Ankhalagon wrote:

Lastly, do we have any access to interceptor I missed?

Cyber Ocularii and augury scanner. Lots of them. That is what I do.

And normally I start with the compulsory stuff and than go on with the rest.
1 HQ, 2+ Standard, 2+ Support. Now with less Adsecularii and more Peltasts.
I also tend to use allmost never automata, because Ordo Reductor.
But 4+ tanks. Bombard are quite scary. Basilisk is....well....Basilisk.
AA is usually either a Whirwind or some Tarantulas.
An Archmagos Reductor in a Techpriest-bodyguard.
Macrocarid Explorator. Triaros.
Not very often a Stormsword.

Thanks for your thoughts . Based on the earlier advice, I'm working on a less artillery focused version. None the less, a party of me thinks cracking their transports with Venators and smothering them in phosphex still seems like a pretty good strategy.

How do you run your macrocarid? Irad engines and a grav implode seems likely to ruin a unit. Ceramite and maybe the backup drive to make sure it gets there. Scout would be great, but 50 points for the Augury Web seems pretty steep. By the time in done it's super expensive.

Also, how many flyers do you see? None of our AA options seem particularly good. In 40k I just rely on rolling a few 6s,but flyers are pretty uncommon in my area.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, does it matter which Medusa (solar auxiliary, legion or Armageddon) I use?

Vultarax are a FMC and have a 3 shot haywire weapon, its one of the best AA options. The runner up is strangely the Ordnatus-Ulator.
In terms of flyers in armies, its usually 1 or 2 but it depends on points value and what people in ur gaming area have, Fire Raptors, storm eagles, Dreadclaws, and Primaris lightning being the most common ive seen.

How do people prefer to equip their Vultrax?

I don't give my Vultarax anything. They come with enough to do their job so well for 175.

I use 3 in my cybernetica army.

Ya stock, usually 2 to 3 squads 1 model per squad. Only take 2 in a squad if its an allied detachment.

Another question: how do multiple detachments work in 30k? It's clear some detachments allow allies and others don't, but could one bring two of the standard Battles in the Age of Ruin Force Orgs, of two Matrices of Ruin?

My local group is now talking about starting at 2500 points and working up to 4000, but as I write lists I find myself running out of force org slots long before then. I do tend toward MSU, so if not, I guess I just need bigger units...

chmcclellan wrote:
Another question: how do multiple detachments work in 30k? It's clear some detachments allow allies and others don't, but could one bring two of the standard Battles in the Age of Ruin Force Orgs, of two Matrices of Ruin?

My local group is now talking about starting at 2500 points and working up to 4000, but as I write lists I find myself running out of force org slots long before then. I do tend toward MSU, so if not, I guess I just need bigger units...

You get whats on the chart, you can not take additional detachments like in 40k.

chmcclellan wrote:
Another question: how do multiple detachments work in 30k? It's clear some detachments allow allies and others don't, but could one bring two of the standard Battles in the Age of Ruin Force Orgs, of two Matrices of Ruin?

My local group is now talking about starting at 2500 points and working up to 4000, but as I write lists I find myself running out of force org slots long before then. I do tend toward MSU, so if not, I guess I just need bigger units...

the point of a lot of 30k is to try and stop the MSU spam of 40k, most unit have an initial unit tax making adding more models cheaper and a lot of upgrades are per unit not per model so also work out cheaper that way

Yeah, MSU-spam doesn´t work that well in 30k.

Who said anything about spam? I'm sensing some hostility here.

30k players make a big deal about liking larger point games, but it seems like the only way to do that is to max out unit sizes or spend a bunch on Lords of War. I'm not sure why the idea that a larger force would bring more units, as opposed to bigger units, is so crazy.

chmcclellan wrote:
Who said anything about spam? I'm sensing some hostility here.

30k players make a big deal about liking larger point games, but it seems like the only way to do that is to max out unit sizes or spend a bunch on Lords of War. I'm not sure why the idea that a larger force would bring more units, as opposed to bigger units, is so crazy.

Yeah 30k scales up real bad. Works fine for say 3k game but it has hard cap on size of game you can play without house ruling.

One of the more annoying things. I hate game system that tells you "you cannot play bigger than this officially".

Well we figured it should work by having another detachment just like first one. No big deal since we aren't going to be exploiting it. But really so weird idea that in 10k game I just MIGHT want to use 2 heavy support squads, HS bike squad and 2 vindicators? How is that so broken that it's bad in 10k list?

And frankly how having primarch AND super heavy in 10k is so bad compared to one or the other in 2k I don't get. % of those in army actually decreases.

Luckily house rule(you CAN take multiple detachments) sorts it out but would be nice if game would scale up on it's own.

Sidenote, don't see Right of Pure Thought on your thralls? I personally think it's an autoinclude.

If you want to play at 10k just use the rules for apocalypse.

"dusts off the titan shelf"

Also you can take a Primarch AND super heavy there is a rite of war that makes the a Primarch a HQ choice and its a generic one, leaving the LOW slot open.
You can take the Onslaught FOC which give 2 LOW slots.
In addition you can usually take an allied detachment of Questoris Knights, people often forget they use normal slots and thus can be an allied detachment.

Azeroth133 wrote:
If you want to play at 10k just use the rules for apocalypse.

"dusts off the titan shelf"

Also you can take a Primarch AND super heavy there is a rite of war that makes the a Primarch a HQ choice and its a generic one, leaving the LOW slot open.
You can take the Onslaught FOC which give 2 LOW slots.
In addition you can usually take an allied detachment of Questoris Knights, people often forget they use normal slots and thus can be an allied detachment.

The Primarch's Chosen ROW removes the Lord of War slot.

The Leviathan FOC also allows you to take 3 Lord of War, up to 5.

Azeroth133 wrote:
Also you can take a Primarch AND super heavy there is a rite of war that makes the a Primarch a HQ choice and its a generic one, leaving the LOW slot open.
You can take the Onslaught FOC which give 2 LOW slots.
In addition you can usually take an allied detachment of Questoris Knights, people often forget they use normal slots and thus can be an allied detachment.

What ROW gives you access to HQ primarch AND LOW slot? The one in red book #1 removes LOW choise.
Onslaught then removes other slots thus still hard capping your army to maximum size. Also optional so again not valid straight out of the box.
Questoris knight gives you just knight LOW's. Not say fellblade/glaive.

And all of those still leaves you with game that has hard cap on size of game you can play without house ruling.