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Have been playing Black Legion and am looking to mix up my list. Looking for feedback and ideas on how to optimize what I have.

Here's the list:

++ Black Legion Speartip ++

+ Core +

Black Legion Warband
·· Chaos Bikers: 2x Chaos Biker, Veterans of the Long War
···· Chaos Biker Champion: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon
·· Chaos Lord: Power Armour, Veterans of the Long War
·· Chaos Space Marines: 4x Chaos Marine with Boltgun, Chaos Rhino, Veterans of the Long War
·· Chaos Space Marines: 4x Chaos Marine with Boltgun, Chaos Rhino, Meltagun, Veterans of the Long War
·· Chaos Terminators: Veterans of the Long War
···· Chaos Terminator: Combi-melta, Power Axe
···· Chaos Terminator: Combi-melta, Power Axe
···· Terminator Champion: Combi-melta, Power Axe
·· Helbrute: Multi-melta, Power fist

+ Command +

Cyclopia Cabal
·· Sorcerer: 2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Power Armour, Veterans of the Long War
·· Sorcerer: 2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Power Armour, Veterans of the Long War
·· Sorcerer: 2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Power Armour, Veterans of the Long War

+ Auxiliary +

Raptor Talon
·· Chaos Lord: Jump Pack, Power Armour, Veterans of the Long War
·· Raptors: Meltagun, 4x Raptor, Veterans of the Long War
·· Raptors: Meltagun, 4x Raptor, Veterans of the Long War
·· Raptors: Meltagun, 4x Raptor, Veterans of the Long War


++ Death Guard CAD ++

+ HQ +

Sorcerer: 2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Mark of Nurgle, Power Armour, Veterans of the Long War

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines: 4x Chaos Marine with Boltgun, Mark of Nurgle, Meltagun, Veterans of the Long War
Chaos Space Marines: 4x Chaos Marine with Boltgun, Mark of Nurgle, Meltagun, Veterans of the Long War

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Bikers: 4x Chaos Biker, Mark of Nurgle, Meltagun, Veterans of the Long War

Points: 1842

Here's the logic behind it:

Turn one deepstrike has been letting me down. My main list is Terminator heavy and getting the right units to arrive at the right place at the right time makes it challenging.

What has been winning games for me is Endless Hatred and Crusader. The extra attack throughout combat and improved run has been making all the difference.

Looking to find some balance. There's still a Raptor Talon to maybe get in an early assault and a Termicide squad to kill something right away. But I am going MSU on smaller squads of foot troops with the logic they are going to pack more punch in cc than a slightly larger unit.

The idea behind the Death Guard CAD is that Black Legion squads are still squishy. I want some tough objective holders and bikers who can escort my sorcerers where they need to go. Originally had Spawn escorting the sorcerers but found myself wanting something harder to kill.

Thoughts?







Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should add: I don't usually play at less than 2,000 points, and I built this list at 1850 to keep from focusing on auto-takes. In all likelihood I would add my Fire Raptor to the Death Guard CAD if I keep it.

Could make the death guard an allied detachment and swap one of the squads for havocs? Relentless autocannons are nice for holding the backfield. (this is presuming relentless isn't a bonus from their vectorum formation, if so then sorry!)

 DoomMouse wrote:
Could make the death guard an allied detachment and swap one of the squads for havocs? Relentless autocannons are nice for holding the backfield. (this is presuming relentless isn't a bonus from their vectorum formation, if so then sorry!)

I think he gets relentless. But yea, I like this idea.

I'm not into sorcerers very much, but I hear they're really strong now. I was thinking you could make room for a DP with a black mace in the DG CAD. You have so many sorcerers who could buff him. As I said, I have no experience with sorcerers, but I imagine this would be a great strategy.

Thanks for the suggestions!

I like the idea of Death Guard Havocs but believe it would be a trade off between them and the raptor talon. Not sure if the autocannons would actually hit harder than 12 attacks on the charge except against vehicles. The Helbrute would have to be the one watching the backfield.

The reason for the sorcerers is yes - they are great! The Cabal gets a power called Shroud of Deceit, which allows me to use one of my opponent's units to shoot at his own troops. This works well against scatbikes especially, which are a big part of my local meta.

My goal with the Cabal is to roll for Endurance, Invisibility, and Hammer Hand and put them with the Nurgle bikers. This would allow them to hit with +2 strength, only be hit on a 6+, and give everyone 4+ FNP along with immunity from instant death. They become a mini death star that can soak up a lot of punishment while other troops grab objectives.

I would have a minimum of 13 psychic dice per turn to make this happen. Help me understand how a Daemon Prince performs compared with that?

This is my revised list. Play tested it against Space Wolves over the weekend in a long, drawn out battle that I won, barely.

The Raptors were mostly good, being able to charge once they arrived, but deep strike mishaps screwed up their placement and only two of them were able to engage. The MVPs were the Cyclopean Cabal, they had a squad of Long Fangs annihilate it's own Vindicator squad. The extra dice on manifesting the power made it a lot simpler to get off.

The naked Terminators and the Helbrute felt like a big tax. They did not really do anything in the game except soak up fire while bikes advanced. The other thing was the Chaos Lord, not being able to afford an artefact limited his usefulness.

Needs more killing power. The Death Guard CAD costs about 450 points.

Considering switching to Iron Warriors for the CAD and just going with Black Legion bikers with Mark of Nurgle. They won't be as survivable but it would offset the Black Legion Warband tax.

CSM Black Legion Speartip

+ Core +

Black Legion Warband
·· Chaos Bikers: 2x Chaos Biker, Veterans of the Long War
···· Chaos Biker Champion: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon
·· Chaos Lord: Bike, Power Armour, Sigil of corruption, Veterans of the Long War, Warlord
·· Chaos Space Marines: 4x Chaos Marine with Boltgun, Meltagun, 4x Take CCW, Veterans of the Long War
···· Aspiring Champion: Boltgun
·· Chaos Space Marines: 4x Chaos Marine with Boltgun, Meltagun, 4x Take CCW, Veterans of the Long War
···· Aspiring Champion: Boltgun
·· Chaos Terminators: Veterans of the Long War
···· Chaos Terminator: Combi-Bolter, Power Axe
···· Chaos Terminator: Combi-Bolter, Power Axe
···· Terminator Champion: Combi-melta, Power Axe
·· Helbrute: Multi-melta, Power fist

+ Command +

Cyclopia Cabal
·· Sorcerer: 2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Power Armour, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War
·· Sorcerer: 2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Power Armour, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War
·· Sorcerer: 2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Power Armour, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War

+ Auxiliary +

Raptor Talon
·· Chaos Lord: Jump Pack, Power Armour, Veterans of the Long War
·· Raptors: Meltagun, 4x Raptor, Veterans of the Long War
···· Raptor Champion: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Melta Bombs
·· Raptors: Meltagun, 4x Raptor, Veterans of the Long War
···· Raptor Champion: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Melta Bombs
·· Raptors: Meltagun, 4x Raptor, Veterans of the Long War
···· Raptor Champion: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Melta Bombs


Death Guard Combined Arms Detachment

+ HQ +

Sorcerer: Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Mark of Nurgle, Power Armour, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists: Cultist Champion, 9x Cultists, Mark of Nurgle

Chaos Cultists: Cultist Champion, 9x Cultists, Mark of Nurgle

+ Fast Attack +

Chaos Bikers: 5x Chaos Biker, Mark of Nurgle, Meltagun, Veterans of the Long War
·· Chaos Biker Champion: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon