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 Deadshot wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Why? I do believe Ghaz has grown a fair bit since Armageddon. Plus he's favored by Gork (or was it Mork). Angron appears and its just as likely the Foot Of Mork steps on him.

Such a thing wouldn't happen, a chance to fight the greatest* champion of the God of War is like winning the lottery for an Ork they won't waste it by trampling him. But Daemon Angron, as Ghaz would be fighting, took on a whole company of Grey Knight Terminators and almost won. Angron was on another level to everyone during the heresy and his abilities have only increased exponentially over the last 10K years. He's the size of a small titan, faster and brutal, and loves nothing more than killing. Ghaz is big but he's a Dreadnought taking on a Warhound, its not even a contest.


*Other constestants for the title include Doombreed, Ka'Bandha and An'ggrath the Unbound.

I hear you. Two things:
1. Angron sounds like too much. I'll cede on that.
2. Sizewise I would argue he's substantially larger now. That was his size during the Armageddon campaign. Its been a long time since with victories under his belt. Edit: ninja'ed!

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Yeah, given that the title of Mag Uruk Thraka is an honorific, I think it's just coincidence, or history repeating.

Ghazghskull is not the Beast that threatened the Imperium in M32, by my eyes.

I'm with you, not the same guy - but I totally buy the theory of him being a modern successor. We haven't seen any more Gargant-sized warbosses since Ullanor, because there hasn't been any opportunity for one to get that big since! Orks just keep getting bigger if they survive and keep fighting, so Ghaz is well on his way to reaching that lofty goal. It jives with the whole End Times theme of 40k too, of course an Ork warlord the likes of which hadn't been seen in 10 thousand years is just now getting serious.

I also really like to hear that Ghaz's honorific came from the beast, it makes sense considering how many things the Beast established are now simply a part of galactic Ork kultur (like the clans and such).

Well Orks produce via spores..
In which Gorkamorka was also stating that they pass on Genetic memories... Old mate Ghaz could just well be a direct descendant of the beast

GodDamUser wrote:
Well Orks produce via spores..
In which Gorkamorka was also stating that they pass on Genetic memories... Old mate Ghaz could just well be a direct descendant of the beast

Interesting thought there.

So in summary we now have 5 theories for why the Beast and Ghaz share the same name;

1. Ghaz time travels back in time at some point in the future of the 40k timeline. He and 'The Beast' are therefore the same Ork.
2. The Beast's soul has been reincarnated inside Ghaz, his head injury and subsequent surgery allows him to access some of his old memories.
3. The Beast's personality was imprinted on the collective Ork psyche due to the unusual manner of his death. This created a new Oddboy type of which Ghaz is the first example.
4. Mag Uruk Thraka is an honorific claimed by the ruler of Ullanor, 'The Beast' held this title and Ghazgull claimed it when he invaded Armageddon (which is really Ullanor relocated by the AdMech).
5. Ghaz is a genetic descendant of The Beast, Orks can access memories through their genetics and thus Ghaz can access some of the Beast's memories.

That is a decent range of options covering social, scientific and mystical possibilities.

Any other options?

This would be super disappointing. Not even taking into account the fact that Ghaz time-travelling around as all six Beasts wouldn't really make sense as if one died they all would unless you killed them exactly in the right order, which is super unlikely, it would make Ghaz an infinitely worse character.

At the moment, Ghaz is a terrifying creature with the potential to topple the Imperium. If you were to make him the Beast(s), he'd lose all that potential and instantly become a failure. All of a sudden, the best of the best of Orks in 40k is revealed to already have failed thousands of years before we even heard of him. Sure, the Beast did some impressive gak, but really, he had no serious effect on anything. Sure, you can point out the effects the Beast caused, but really what would change about the current setting if the Beast series was retconned as having never happened?

No, to have Ghaz turned out to have lost millennia ago would be a massive disservice to the character. I much prefer him as the spiritual successor, a new beast who could topple the Imperium all by himself.

Well if he were the genetic or psychic son of the Beast that would be a different story no?

Think of the mek warlord The Emperor and Horus fought before the big anti ork campaign.

The Emperor performed a special soul-destroying attack on this ork, in an attempt to ensure the ork would 1) die and 2) never have the chance to live again.

This says to me The Emperor believes after a creature's body has perished there are ways for that creatures spirit to return to the materium. Whether this is an ability specific to orks, or a wider ability is unclear.

What is clear, is the possibility of the beast's spirit has some how performed this feat, and now is a part of Ghazkul. Ol' Ghazza neva was da same afta takin a bolta to da brain!

nareik wrote:
Think of the mek warlord The Emperor and Horus fought before the big anti ork campaign.

The Emperor performed a special soul-destroying attack on this ork, in an attempt to ensure the ork would 1) die and 2) never have the chance to live again.

This says to me The Emperor believes after a creature's body has perished there are ways for that creatures spirit to return to the materium. Whether this is an ability specific to orks, or a wider ability is unclear.

What is clear, is the possibility of the beast's spirit has some how performed this feat, and now is a part of Ghazkul. Ol' Ghazza neva was da same afta takin a bolta to da brain!

That changes things, though it may be that Big E's unique perspective on reincarnation is heavily influenced and twisted by his own origins. Was it paranoia, or did he know something no one else does? We'll never know, but it is a very interesting point to bring up.

 Deadshot wrote:
So, you've probably heard this many times, and you've probably already guessed it, but I'm wondering how plausible it would be for Ghazkull to be the Beast? From what I know, Ghaz is currently time-jumping around the place after getting bored on Armageddon.

This is a reference to the side bar piece in Rise of the Primarch? I read it as the Imperium making the same mistake as they did with the original Beast. Ghaz may be the first and most well known, but there are other super Ork warlords out there as well.
Just as the Imperium and Chaos have there Primarchs and Saints/Demons and Eldar have the Avatars of there gods(would not be surprised to see more in the future), Orks will get there Beasts.