Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am a dark angels player, I am going for a lions blade formation with a ravenwing support. I am stuck on my assault marines I'm not sure how to equip them. I was thinking of plas pistols and jet packs, i should have enough anti tank via las-devastators and a las razorback and melta spam ravenwing support squad, for tac squads plas guns and missle launchers for flexability two rhinos and one drop pod, and a chaplain with plas pistol and jet pack to run with the assault marines. Does that sound balanced enough or should i do something else with the assault marines.

Full disclosure: I play Ultramarines, so YMMV.

IMHO plasma pistols are overpriced for what you get. I like my assault marines with a pair of flamers. Generally a 5 man squad, in a pod or with jump packs. Sarge is normally a vet sarge with a power weapon/bolt pistol. Chaplain joins them as often as he can (bare bones, with only JP to keep up with the squad).

If I have a HQ to soak challenges, the sarge gets an axe. He can afford to strike last, as it will be hard to single him out, and the AP2 is nice. If running solo without HQ support, I go with either a sword or maul.

Fist in line for melta bombs if I have 5 points left over at the end of list building.

Can Dark Angels take eviscerators? If so, take two of them! They rock.

You have the right instinct to put a Chaplain with the assault Marines, and you should take a Veteran Sergeant, too, probably with either a power fist or power maul. A power spear is pretty good too, as you'll be charging more often than not.

Plasma pistols aren't very points efficient, but it's better to take a lot than to take just a few. Three or four plasma pistols in a squad can put a dent into scary things before you charge them, so I like them well enough. Not the first thing I would spend points on but if you like the idea of them then take 'em.

You can only put two plasma pistols in a single assault squad, and the cost is absolutely ludicrous for half-baked AP2 shooting that can roast your own guys. Flamers are a better choice, but will cost you some CC punch.

You can also put an eviscerator on Sarge for the same cost as a power fist, which saves you from having to buy him melta bombs. But it might be even better to stick with just a power axe and pistol, or even just go with no upgrades at all, since the meta balance has shifted to favor shooting much more than assault.

flamers and a free transport. Be it pod or rhino/razor.

Thank you for the replies. I like the idea of plas pistols because it's seems right for dark angels being plasma fanatics even though no special rule or cheaper cost. I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment but I'm pretty sure i can take eviserators. I hear a lot of people say take a 5 man with two flamers and a pod, but That seems boring and situational to me. Like wise a lot of people say plas pistols are a waste due to getting hot and limited range and no rapid fire. Them being on assault marines with jet packs shouldn't be too bad seeing as the model is just over the price of a regular space marine and still gets the extra cc for pistol with jet packs the range shouldn't be too much issue. when i equip the sergeant with one and the chaplain it gives me 4 in the squad of 11 which i believe is enough for a decent punch.

A minimum of 335 points is an awful lot to spend on 4 plasma shots, and you haven't even gotten to close-combat weapons for anyone except the chaplain yet.

What will this squad be going after on the table to justify their cost? It's probably overkill for bullying Orks or GEQ, and probably ineffective against most TEQ and MCs you'll run across. It might be good at blowing up things like tactical marine squads, but you'd have to wipe out almost five bare-bones squads of them to make your points back.

It certainly sounds fluffy for Dark Angels, but I'm worried that you'll plunk this thing down on the table and find few good targets for them.

If it is just bare bolt pistols it is still 275 points so it is a fairly large point expenditure regardless. the question is will those 4 shots a turn make up the points for there cost if i get two terminators they have made up that cost even 4 marines is pretty close. I'm going to see how much mileage i can get out of them (hopefully) this weekend. I beleive my best targets would be back line heavy weapons crews. A ful dev squad with missle launchers run 200 points without transport if i can get just one unit like that they should pay for themselves probably going to drop 10 points if i can find some for a couple melta bombs for chap and sarge.

The goal of assault marines is to get into assault. I'd spend those points on a power weapon or fist instead.

Plasma pistols are overpriced, but only by 5 points or so. That's 20 points 'wasted' on four of them. Maybe 40 points if you think they're 10 points overpriced. That's not exactly breaking the bank.

By taking plasma pistols you increase the power of the squad and up its ability to concentrate combat power on a narrow frontage. Now you can shoot well enough to put a few wounds on a tough target before killing it, making it that much easier to kill it quickly, thereby reducing the casualties you take and increasing the likelihood that you'll have enough turns left to hunt down and engage a new target.

I'm all for points efficiency, but unless your plan is to spam disposable units and win on Maelstrom points (which, to be fair, is one of the few ways for Space Marines to compete against the strongest type of cheese armies) you will have to spend points on units to make sure they're capable of doing their jobs. I like to keep most of my units lean so I have the points to put into the squads that need gear to get the most out of them. 5 dudes in a drop pod is good for getting in the way, while 10 dudes with jump packs, a Chaplain, and outfitted with the right weapons can deliver the coup de grace to an Imperial Knight or smash a tough target off an objective.

An army needs small, flexible units to get in the way, but also needs units that can actually fight and do damage on their own.

Is there any way we can talk you out of using assault marines? I'm a BA player, and I don't really use them anymore. They're just bad. They're even bad with FNP and WS 5 and meltaguns and furious charge and init 5. I can't imagine they're good for DA.

As a Blood Angel player I really liked when they were troops and had good weapon options. Now that they are fast attack I can't justify putting them in a list and that is with the better options BA have for them. Bikes are just better in every way and that saddens me.

On topic, in a Dark Angels list I find assault marines to be really lack luster. Your army specializes in bikes and to not use them seems counter intuitive. If you are dead set on using them I would run them with 2 flamers and melta bombs on the SGT. I feel the points spent on melee weapon upgrades is better spent elsewhere.

My experience, both in casual games and in grand tournaments, is that my opponents are consistently surprised by how well my Assault Marines with eviscerators and a chaplain perform. If you set them up on a flank where there's some cover and then roll up the end of the enemy line you can get good results. They're not a super unit but they can succeed against a variety of opponents and bully stuff around in the right circumstance.

 Saber wrote:
My experience, both in casual games and in grand tournaments, is that my opponents are consistently surprised by how well my Assault Marines with eviscerators and a chaplain perform. If you set them up on a flank where there's some cover and then roll up the end of the enemy line you can get good results. They're not a super unit but they can succeed against a variety of opponents and bully stuff around in the right circumstance.

Why not field something that isn't so conditionally good?

Assault marines suck.

If you do have to run them, drop pod and double flamer.

Or skyhammer.

This list is not for tournaments just for casual games. As for are they necessary, they are for the formation i would like to run if i wanted to spam bikers i could very well do so with black knights. The formation calls for 3 tactical squads, 1 devastator squad, 1 assault squad, and a regular chaplain or captain, plus one auxiliary which is my ravenwing attack squad. I hear all the time assault marines suck and just make them a throw away unit with flamers and a pod. I can live with 20 points overpriced for my squad to hopefully be an ace in the hole that catches my friends off guard. So my options are anti-tank with powerfists and eviserators, bare bones to save points and take on non heavy infantry or melee oriented units, or plasma pistols to hit a little harder in the shooting phase and still be able to assault.

Enigmatic viper wrote:
This list is not for tournaments just for casual games. As for are they necessary, they are for the formation i would like to run if i wanted to spam bikers i could very well do so with black knights. The formation calls for 3 tactical squads, 1 devastator squad, 1 assault squad, and a regular chaplain or captain, plus one auxiliary which is my ravenwing attack squad. I hear all the time assault marines suck and just make them a throw away unit with flamers and a pod. I can live with 20 points overpriced for my squad to hopefully be an ace in the hole that catches my friends off guard. So my options are anti-tank with powerfists and eviscerators, bare bones to save points and take on non heavy infantry or melee oriented units, or plasma pistols to hit a little harder in the shooting phase and still be able to assault.

I'd definitely recommend having a full unit rather than a minimum unit.
It both allows them to live longer than a 5 man unit (Contrary to what the internet says I've never seen two 5 man units survive as long as a single 10 man squad) and have enough punch to take stuff down. (That they're considered garbage works in their favour because they're likely to only be targeted as an afterthought if there's no "better" target)

For Dark Angels I'd recommend keeping them back and either counter-charging or pre-emptively charging anything that goes for your shooty units.

As for upgrades a Vetan sergeant is (IMO) a must, probably with a power weapon of the type that's most effective for you (In my case it's a Maul). Otherwise Jump packs are really the only thing I'd give them

There is no reason to ever run full ASM squads. I even avoid this practice with BA, and I can buff the whole squad with a priest. Still not worth it.

I geuss this is the beauty of warhammer 40k so many options but it also makes it so hard to decide.

I don't know if it's available for loyalists, but CSM can take two meltas in a squad of 5 raptors (jetpack assault marines). This makes them AMAZING for popping rhinos or heavy infantry, though a bit expensive, I run 2 meltas, 2 bolt pistols with chainswords, and a champion with dual lightning claws. They're amazing at popping open rhinos and chewing up the contents. You have to use them with a lot of coordination and forward thinking, though, as they WILL get chewed up by massed small arms fire otherwise. It helps that we can take several options to increase their durability, as well.

Only BA can do that. And even then, it's not that good.