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Fairly certain anything that's important is owned and produced by the Imperium. All wargear is made by the AdMech as well. I can imagine corporations being powerful on some planets and being allowed to do as they please as long as they meet Imperial quotas etc., but I can't imagine them having much to do with the galaxy on a wider scale. These organisations would also likely predate the great crusade and have to had willingly complied to be allowed to exist by Big E. most people in the Imperium work for the government forever, until they die of old age, get massacred by anything that comes along, get drafted, or are somehow executed for heresy.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
Everyone knows that adeptus mechanicus has a monopoly on technology and stands for an overwhelming majority of the Imperiums production. Hence technology is not really viable for corporates to prosecute.

But the AdMech is still only so large, and there is always need for more guns, tanks, ammo and other "simple" stuff. It does make sense to produce such things locally, even in an insane grimdark setting. Many non-AdMech worlds, especially Hive Worlds often produce such things in incredible amounts for themself and export.

There's room for corporations there - just as Warp drives are sometimes leased there's nothing saying you couldn't license the right to manufacture something useful. Or provide the facilities and labor to assemble the final product from parts provided by the AdMech. Items are produced to outfit PDF and IG tithes, the governor is pleased to make his quota, the corporation makes some profit selling extra production off-world and the AdMech can use (most of) their own guys for some more important project like a Titan or warship.

But why would a corporation export those things if there is no profit to be made? The Imperium has no money, making it pretty damn hard for a corporation to return a profit on their investment by doing business off-world. Besides, an Imperial governor is practically all-powerful on his planet. Why would he be paying others to make his stuff if he can get a license and make it himself? There is no need for a middle man there.

I've never read about any corporation in the 40k fluff. It just does not fit the structure and feel of the 40k universe. All commerce I've read about is in the form of barter, which fits the backwards feudal tone of the Imperium of Man.

Vaguely. In some places. Mostly it's noble merchant houses like in renaissance Europe.


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 Iron_Captain wrote:
But why would a corporation export those things if there is no profit to be made? The Imperium has no money

Yes it does. It varies a bit due to size and culture, but the most common currency used is Throne Gelt, and most other currencies can be converted in to and out of Throne Gelt.

While the Imperium itself has no national currency as we define it, it does have Tithe Credits which it will use to purchase stuff from local populations if it needs to. That is for all practical purposes a form of currency.

Local sectors also have their own local currency or currencies. Precious metals are also used as mediums of exchange. Moneyis definitely a thing in 40k.

Money is in-fact a necessary thing for any advanced society to function. Like it or not, the Imperium qualifies as an advanced society and economy. The RPG and various novels make it quite clear that it exists.

The overall economy is much more like the world economy was during the age of Mercantilism and age of exploration. Not as much business was done with currency across borders, but within borders you did business with that currency. Ships would travel from Europe to China, bringing goods which would be sold in China for Chinese money, then that money would be used to buy Chinese goods, which would then be brought back to Europe to be sold for European money. But within each distinct economic area, you would use the local currency.

A ship owned by a enterprising merchant captain makes its living by traveling between the Gothic and Orar sectors. The captain's family have operated this ship for 7 generations. He generally makes his fortune by purchasing food stuffs at 3 agriworlds in the Orar sector. Then crossing into the Gothic sector stopping at a hive and forge world to sell those food products. With the Gothic currency he is paid for these products, he purchases farming equipment as well as surplus weapons totake back to the Orar sector.

In the Orar sector, he sells the weapons to the feuding warlords on several feudal world's in exchange for raw materials and slaves. These are then taken to the agriworlds where the slaves and previously purchased farming equipment is sold to the agriworld's various farming corporations. More foodstuffs are bought, and the circle is now completed as the ship heads back to the Gothic sector to continue.

Grey Templar has the right of it in my view. The noble merchant houses, some of which are only big enough to support a single ship, tend to do trade like he described. Merchant Fleets are a thing that have been mentioned time and again in the background of 40k, they just don't get much focus because of the war focus of most 40k lore.

Here's an example merchant ship:


The Vagabond-Class Merchant Trader, described as "small multipurpose vessels able to transport a wide variety of cargo and even passengers." They are equivalent to Imperial Navy frigates, carrying small weapons batteries to fend off lesser pirates, and are used in fleets by the merchant houses, or singly by poorer Chartist Captains.


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Hell, just to tell you how important the Chartist Captains and the merchant houses are?

They get an occasional voting seat on the council of the High Lords of Terra. The Speaker for the Chartist Captains actually commands more ships and potentially more power than the Lord High Admiral of the Imperial Navy depending on the state of the Imperium.

I don't think the concept of corporations even exist in the 40k universe since anything that even has a remote inter-star relationship is either owned by the Ecclesiarchy, Ad Mech, or the Administratum. Rogue Traders and Merchant Ships, even if they have a guild-pact of sorts, still act like lone treasure hunters more than an organized business.

However it sounds like corporations might exist on a planet-by-planet basis.

They act like businesses in the same way the merchant houses of the renaissance period did.

Seriously am I the only one that noticed the parallels, is this part of history THAT neglected by our colleges today?

Dismissing the idea of corporations in 40k as there isn't a unifying galactic currency, is like dismissing corporations in the real world; we don't have a unifying global currency.

Traders gonna trade.

 Melissia wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
But why would a corporation export those things if there is no profit to be made? The Imperium has no money

Yes it does. It varies a bit due to size and culture, but the most common currency used is Throne Gelt, and most other currencies can be converted in to and out of Throne Gelt.

I've never heard of Throne Gelt outside of the Calixis Sector, and Throne Gelt isn't even a single currency. It is the name that the Imperium uses for any kind of local, monetary currency (basically it was just set up as an abstract concept in Dark Heresy to save GMs from the trouble of calculating exchange rates and determining the relative worth of goods and services. Notably, it was scrapped in the 2nd edition in favour of influence) Most worlds in the Imperium don't have a local currency, let alone a unifying exchange rate.

nareik wrote:
Dismissing the idea of corporations in 40k as there isn't a unifying galactic currency, is like dismissing corporations in the real world; we don't have a unifying global currency.

Traders gonna trade.

The big difference is that even if we do not have a unifying currency, we still all use money and have established a set exchange rate for all of our currencies. This is necessary for trade. The Imperium however doesn't use money at all, its economy is based on exchange of goods and services rather than exchange of wealth. This makes setting up a successful corporation (which is based around making profit and distributing that to its shareholders) pretty damn difficult.

As has been clearly demonstrated by the entire period of history known as the Age of Exploration, you do not need any form of stable exchange rates between currency for corporations or large scale trade.

Both can exist with currencies never ever directly interacting.


Its quite simply how it works. The following example.

You have acquired funding to found a small intergalactic trading business of your own, you've secured enough investors to acquire a small warp capable merchant ship and lease the warp drive from the Mechanicus. With the small amount of capital leftover, you have just enough money to fill the hold with grain from a nearby agri-world, purchased at a very cheap price of 100,000,000 of your local Sector's currency, called Eagles or Aquilas. You have heard that a Hive world in the neighboring sector is experiencing a massive food shortage, and they're only 6 months warp travel away.

You perform the warp jump and arrive 6 months later. You find a world in desperate need of food just as you were told. but this sector doesn't use Eagles as currency. They use a currency you are unfamiliar with called Terrans. You, and nobody you talk to, has any idea what a Terran is worth compared to an Eagle. However, you don't need to know the rate at all. You can see what other goods are available in the area and see what the price for those is, and thinking of what you could sell them for back in your home sector. You see that this world has a lot of major industrial products, including Chimeras. You know Chimeras are selling for 100,000 Eagles each back home and you can fit 2000 Chimeras in your hold, and you see that this current planet is selling Chimeras for 1,000,000 Terrans each. So as you have your poor customers over a barrel as it were, being one of only a few grain transports which has yet responded to the distress calls, you sell your grain for 2 billion Terrans. Enough to purchase the 2000 Chimeras you can fit in your hold.

You then head for home. Another 6 months go by. You arrive back home and offload 2000 Chimeras for 100,000 Eagles each. You just turned a 100 million Eagle profit on your grain. And you still have no idea how many Terrans equals 1 Eagle. You can't actually do a straight conversion of what the Chimeras were worth in the two places either, because Chimeras will be worth less where they are made then where they are not made.

You can do business without knowing exchange rates. You just have to use intermediary goods instead of trying to directly convert currency between each other.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
But why would a corporation export those things if there is no profit to be made? The Imperium has no money

Yes it does. It varies a bit due to size and culture, but the most common currency used is Throne Gelt, and most other currencies can be converted in to and out of Throne Gelt.

I've never heard of Throne Gelt outside of the Calixis Sector, and Throne Gelt isn't even a single currency. It is the name that the Imperium uses for any kind of local, monetary currency (basically it was just set up as an abstract concept in Dark Heresy to save GMs from the trouble of calculating exchange rates and determining the relative worth of goods and services. Notably, it was scrapped in the 2nd edition in favour of influence) Most worlds in the Imperium don't have a local currency, let alone a unifying exchange rate.

nareik wrote:
Dismissing the idea of corporations in 40k as there isn't a unifying galactic currency, is like dismissing corporations in the real world; we don't have a unifying global currency.

Traders gonna trade.

The big difference is that even if we do not have a unifying currency, we still all use money and have established a set exchange rate for all of our currencies. This is necessary for trade. The Imperium however doesn't use money at all, its economy is based on exchange of goods and services rather than exchange of wealth. This makes setting up a successful corporation (which is based around making profit and distributing that to its shareholders) pretty damn difficult.

Do our currencies have an established, set exchange rate? From what I can tell the values of currencies are constantly in flux depending on how traders perceive them to be worth.

Besides, surely all that is necessary for trade is one person has (or will have) a resource (goods, services, whatever) that another person wants, and this second person has (or will have) something the first party would want in exchange? Currency just facilitates this by acting as a tradable IoU system. Dividends could be paid in slaves, off world goods, contracts, etc.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I've never heard of Throne Gelt outside of the Calixis Sector

It's also mentioned in the Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts series (in both series you had soldiers gambling using Thrones as currency).

You're correct that "Throne Gelt" isn't currency proper, but it IS a standardized unit of wealth based off of planetary tithes. All planetary currencies are derived from the value of planetary tithes and have an exchange rate that has the Throne Gelt used as a basis for comparison-- just like the value of US Dollars are derived from the taxation done by the US government, and modern international finance uses the US Dollar as the basis for comparison in its exchange rates.

Funny how important taxation is to a capitalist system

Grey Templar wrote:As has been clearly demonstrated by the entire period of history known as the Age of Exploration, you do not need any form of stable exchange rates between currency for corporations or large scale trade.

Both can exist with currencies never ever directly interacting.


Its quite simply how it works. The following example.

You have acquired funding to found a small intergalactic trading business of your own, you've secured enough investors to acquire a small warp capable merchant ship and lease the warp drive from the Mechanicus. With the small amount of capital leftover, you have just enough money to fill the hold with grain from a nearby agri-world, purchased at a very cheap price of 100,000,000 of your local Sector's currency, called Eagles or Aquilas. You have heard that a Hive world in the neighboring sector is experiencing a massive food shortage, and they're only 6 months warp travel away.

You perform the warp jump and arrive 6 months later. You find a world in desperate need of food just as you were told. but this sector doesn't use Eagles as currency. They use a currency you are unfamiliar with called Terrans. You, and nobody you talk to, has any idea what a Terran is worth compared to an Eagle. However, you don't need to know the rate at all. You can see what other goods are available in the area and see what the price for those is, and thinking of what you could sell them for back in your home sector. You see that this world has a lot of major industrial products, including Chimeras. You know Chimeras are selling for 100,000 Eagles each back home and you can fit 2000 Chimeras in your hold, and you see that this current planet is selling Chimeras for 1,000,000 Terrans each. So as you have your poor customers over a barrel as it were, being one of only a few grain transports which has yet responded to the distress calls, you sell your grain for 2 billion Terrans. Enough to purchase the 2000 Chimeras you can fit in your hold.

You then head for home. Another 6 months go by. You arrive back home and offload 2000 Chimeras for 100,000 Eagles each. You just turned a 100 million Eagle profit on your grain. And you still have no idea how many Terrans equals 1 Eagle. You can't actually do a straight conversion of what the Chimeras were worth in the two places either, because Chimeras will be worth less where they are made then where they are not made.

You can do business without knowing exchange rates. You just have to use intermediary goods instead of trying to directly convert currency between each other.

This is exactly how medieval trade worked, usually through a guild (such as the Hanze) or a state-run merchant company (such as the East India Company) It is not how corporations work. At least not corporations in any sense approaching our modern usage of the term. Trading guilds are pretty common in 40k though, and Rogue Traders are pretty much the East India Company in space.

nareik wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
But why would a corporation export those things if there is no profit to be made? The Imperium has no money

Yes it does. It varies a bit due to size and culture, but the most common currency used is Throne Gelt, and most other currencies can be converted in to and out of Throne Gelt.

I've never heard of Throne Gelt outside of the Calixis Sector, and Throne Gelt isn't even a single currency. It is the name that the Imperium uses for any kind of local, monetary currency (basically it was just set up as an abstract concept in Dark Heresy to save GMs from the trouble of calculating exchange rates and determining the relative worth of goods and services. Notably, it was scrapped in the 2nd edition in favour of influence) Most worlds in the Imperium don't have a local currency, let alone a unifying exchange rate.

nareik wrote:
Dismissing the idea of corporations in 40k as there isn't a unifying galactic currency, is like dismissing corporations in the real world; we don't have a unifying global currency.

Traders gonna trade.

The big difference is that even if we do not have a unifying currency, we still all use money and have established a set exchange rate for all of our currencies. This is necessary for trade. The Imperium however doesn't use money at all, its economy is based on exchange of goods and services rather than exchange of wealth. This makes setting up a successful corporation (which is based around making profit and distributing that to its shareholders) pretty damn difficult.

Do our currencies have an established, set exchange rate? From what I can tell the values of currencies are constantly in flux depending on how traders perceive them to be worth.

Besides, surely all that is necessary for trade is one person has (or will have) a resource (goods, services, whatever) that another person wants, and this second person has (or will have) something the first party would want in exchange? Currency just facilitates this by acting as a tradable IoU system. Dividends could be paid in slaves, off world goods, contracts, etc.

Yes, we have. Just because the set exchange rate changes a lot doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
And yeah, trade is very well possible without currency. Originally, all trade was without currency (usually in the form of a gift economy). Money was only created as a means to make trading easier. What is not possible without currency however is a corporation. For a corporation you need a stock market. For a stock market you need money. The difference between a corporation and other sorts of companies is that a corporation is a legal person that can sell shares on a stock market to generate wealth to invest in the generation of more wealth (and thus generate more shares which can be sold for more wealth ad inf.). For this kind of accumulation of wealth, you also need money (because if you were to accumulate goods, their value would go down because of their decreased rarity). It is basic economics, not that hard to understand.
So while technically a corporation could exist at a local level (if a planet were to have a currency and a stock market), it would not be able to expand beyond that unless there was a set exchange rate for different currencies (and all the laws and agreements such a thing entails). But even then, a corporation, being a decidedly modern thing would not fit in the general feel and atmosphere of the 40k universe. This is the only real reason why corporations in 40k do not exist. It is like democracy and the internet. Technically those things could exist in 40k, but it would completely ruin the backwards, feudal grimdark feel of the setting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I've never heard of Throne Gelt outside of the Calixis Sector

It's also mentioned in the Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts series (in both series you had soldiers gambling using Thrones as currency).

You're correct that "Throne Gelt" isn't currency proper, but it IS a standardized unit of wealth based off of planetary tithes. All planetary currencies are derived from the value of planetary tithes and have an exchange rate that has the Throne Gelt used as a basis for comparison-- just like the value of US Dollars are derived from the taxation done by the US government, and modern international finance uses the US Dollar as the basis for comparison in its exchange rates.

Funny how important taxation is to a capitalist system

Thrones could be something entirely different from Throne Gelt. In fact, there could be hundreds of different local currencies all called 'Thrones' in the Imperium. There is no evidence for the use of Throne Gelt outside of the Calixis Sector. Quite the contrary in fact, because it is absent from the Askellon Sector or any other sector described in detail in any source other than 1st edition Dark Heresy.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Thrones could be something entirely different from Throne Gelt. In fact, there could be hundreds of different local currencies all called 'Thrones' in the Imperium. There is no evidence for the use of Throne Gelt outside of the Calixis Sector. Quite the contrary in fact, because it is absent from the Askellon Sector or any other sector described in detail in any source other than 1st edition Dark Heresy.

Well if you really desperately desire to believe in your own personal headcanon that the Imperium's administratum has no standardized measure for wealth that it uses to calculate taxes, then you can do that, but you're really straying away from the lore in believing such. Whether it's called Tithe Grade, Grand Harvesting, Terra's Due, Throne Gelt, or some other name, it exists, regardless of whether or not you want it to. And because it exists, trade within the Imperium can also exist.

The fact that the Imperium's merchant fleets are ten times the size of its military fleet also says the Imperium has trade

You're defining "corporation" in a very weird way, that doesn't match the actual definition used by modern governments. A "Corporation" is a company or group of people legally authorized to act as a single legal entity. And in that regard, they definitely do exist in the Imperium and in fact are vital to its existence.

Does it really matter what Imperial currency is called when it's all Chuck E. Cheese tokens anyway?

 Melissia wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Thrones could be something entirely different from Throne Gelt. In fact, there could be hundreds of different local currencies all called 'Thrones' in the Imperium. There is no evidence for the use of Throne Gelt outside of the Calixis Sector. Quite the contrary in fact, because it is absent from the Askellon Sector or any other sector described in detail in any source other than 1st edition Dark Heresy.

Well if you really desperately desire to believe in your own personal headcanon that the Imperium's administratum has no standardized measure for wealth that it uses to calculate taxes, then you can do that, but you're really straying away from the lore in believing such. Whether it's called Tithe Grade, Grand Harvesting, Terra's Due, Throne Gelt, or some other name, it exists, regardless of whether or not you want it to. And because it exists, trade within the Imperium can also exist.

The fact that the Imperium's merchant fleets are ten times the size of its military fleet also says the Imperium has trade

You're defining "corporation" in a very weird way, that doesn't match the actual definition used by modern governments. A "Corporation" is a company or group of people legally authorized to act as a single legal entity. And in that regard, they definitely do exist in the Imperium and in fact are vital to its existence.

No. The Imperium has no standard measure of wealth it uses to calculate tithes. The Imperium does not have taxes or other such modern concepts, the Imperium has a tithe. A tithe is 10% of total production ('tithe' literally means a tenth). That means that the Imperium has no need of a standard measure of wealth to set tithes, a tithe is already set by itself. There is no mention whatsoever in 40k lore that there is a standard measurement of wealth that is used to set tithes, so you are the one here who is making things up. Next time you accuse anyone of straying from the lore, look in the mirror first.


And yes, there can be trade within the Imperium. No one is disputing that. But most trade within the Imperium will be on a local scale or in the form of barter. And trade is not the same thing as corporations, which is what this thread is about.

And while legally "corporation" can refer to any corporate entity (that is a group of people allowed to operate as a single legal person), in normal usage corporation usually refers to a large company that issues stock. Also, it depends on the legal area in which you are. Not all countries have the concept of a non-stock-issuing corporation. And if you think you can find an example of a corporation in 40k, please let me know.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:As has been clearly demonstrated by the entire period of history known as the Age of Exploration, you do not need any form of stable exchange rates between currency for corporations or large scale trade.

Both can exist with currencies never ever directly interacting.


Its quite simply how it works. The following example.

You have acquired funding to found a small intergalactic trading business of your own, you've secured enough investors to acquire a small warp capable merchant ship and lease the warp drive from the Mechanicus. With the small amount of capital leftover, you have just enough money to fill the hold with grain from a nearby agri-world, purchased at a very cheap price of 100,000,000 of your local Sector's currency, called Eagles or Aquilas. You have heard that a Hive world in the neighboring sector is experiencing a massive food shortage, and they're only 6 months warp travel away.

You perform the warp jump and arrive 6 months later. You find a world in desperate need of food just as you were told. but this sector doesn't use Eagles as currency. They use a currency you are unfamiliar with called Terrans. You, and nobody you talk to, has any idea what a Terran is worth compared to an Eagle. However, you don't need to know the rate at all. You can see what other goods are available in the area and see what the price for those is, and thinking of what you could sell them for back in your home sector. You see that this world has a lot of major industrial products, including Chimeras. You know Chimeras are selling for 100,000 Eagles each back home and you can fit 2000 Chimeras in your hold, and you see that this current planet is selling Chimeras for 1,000,000 Terrans each. So as you have your poor customers over a barrel as it were, being one of only a few grain transports which has yet responded to the distress calls, you sell your grain for 2 billion Terrans. Enough to purchase the 2000 Chimeras you can fit in your hold.

You then head for home. Another 6 months go by. You arrive back home and offload 2000 Chimeras for 100,000 Eagles each. You just turned a 100 million Eagle profit on your grain. And you still have no idea how many Terrans equals 1 Eagle. You can't actually do a straight conversion of what the Chimeras were worth in the two places either, because Chimeras will be worth less where they are made then where they are not made.

You can do business without knowing exchange rates. You just have to use intermediary goods instead of trying to directly convert currency between each other.

This is exactly how medieval trade worked, usually through a guild (such as the Hanze) or a state-run merchant company (such as the East India Company) It is not how corporations work. At least not corporations in any sense approaching our modern usage of the term. Trading guilds are pretty common in 40k though, and Rogue Traders are pretty much the East India Company in space.

I'm not entirely sure why you seem utterly convinced that a Corporation can't do business in the same manner as historical trading guilds did. Nothing about Corporations by definition requires anything that's allegedly missing from 40k.

Besides, an Imperial governor is practically all-powerful on his planet. Why would he be paying others to make his stuff if he can get a license and make it himself? There is no need for a middle man there.

Because he's not completely all powerful. There are plenty of in-universe examples of lord governors having to deal with city governors, guilds, and noble families who are too influential to cow.

Hell, look at our worlds history: even the most influential monarchs tended to have to pay for guilds to do work for them.

And the admech probably like it that way. A guild or noble house whose livelihood depends on their license to produce something the world needs is a ready-made independent political faction that's inherently allied to them.

Okay......what in your mind is the key characteristics that modern corporations have that something like the east india company, or the big multi-family venetian trading houses lack?

 Iron_Captain wrote:

The big difference is that even if we do not have a unifying currency, we still all use money and have established a set exchange rate for all of our currencies. This is necessary for trade. The Imperium however doesn't use money at all, its economy is based on exchange of goods and services rather than exchange of wealth. This makes setting up a successful corporation (which is based around making profit and distributing that to its shareholders) pretty damn difficult.

I have never heard of the effect abolishing of currency - any source? It sound very dubious - currency is required for any sort of modern society (post Stone Age) to work. I mean, Orks use teef for a reason.

And the raison d'être of the corporation is based on limiting investment risks for investors. It's to prevent creditors going after the debtors in the case of a default.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:As has been clearly demonstrated by the entire period of history known as the Age of Exploration, you do not need any form of stable exchange rates between currency for corporations or large scale trade.

Both can exist with currencies never ever directly interacting.


Its quite simply how it works. The following example.

You have acquired funding to found a small intergalactic trading business of your own, you've secured enough investors to acquire a small warp capable merchant ship and lease the warp drive from the Mechanicus. With the small amount of capital leftover, you have just enough money to fill the hold with grain from a nearby agri-world, purchased at a very cheap price of 100,000,000 of your local Sector's currency, called Eagles or Aquilas. You have heard that a Hive world in the neighboring sector is experiencing a massive food shortage, and they're only 6 months warp travel away.

You perform the warp jump and arrive 6 months later. You find a world in desperate need of food just as you were told. but this sector doesn't use Eagles as currency. They use a currency you are unfamiliar with called Terrans. You, and nobody you talk to, has any idea what a Terran is worth compared to an Eagle. However, you don't need to know the rate at all. You can see what other goods are available in the area and see what the price for those is, and thinking of what you could sell them for back in your home sector. You see that this world has a lot of major industrial products, including Chimeras. You know Chimeras are selling for 100,000 Eagles each back home and you can fit 2000 Chimeras in your hold, and you see that this current planet is selling Chimeras for 1,000,000 Terrans each. So as you have your poor customers over a barrel as it were, being one of only a few grain transports which has yet responded to the distress calls, you sell your grain for 2 billion Terrans. Enough to purchase the 2000 Chimeras you can fit in your hold.

You then head for home. Another 6 months go by. You arrive back home and offload 2000 Chimeras for 100,000 Eagles each. You just turned a 100 million Eagle profit on your grain. And you still have no idea how many Terrans equals 1 Eagle. You can't actually do a straight conversion of what the Chimeras were worth in the two places either, because Chimeras will be worth less where they are made then where they are not made.

You can do business without knowing exchange rates. You just have to use intermediary goods instead of trying to directly convert currency between each other.

This is exactly how medieval trade worked, usually through a guild (such as the Hanze) or a state-run merchant company (such as the East India Company) It is not how corporations work. At least not corporations in any sense approaching our modern usage of the term. Trading guilds are pretty common in 40k though, and Rogue Traders are pretty much the East India Company in space.

I'm not entirely sure why you seem utterly convinced that a Corporation can't do business in the same manner as historical trading guilds did. Nothing about Corporations by definition requires anything that's allegedly missing from 40k.

Because a corporation that works like a historical trading guild is a trading guild, not a corporation. There are plenty of similarities (both allow others to help fund a business venture and then share in the profit) but the way the organisations are structured is completely different. Unlike guilds, major corporations have elaborate, hierarchical organisations, vast amounts of personnel and dedicated supporting legal structures. There is no need for all that with the simple trading transactions you are describing.

Ultimately, 40k is so huge it is highly likely you could make up some circumstances that would allow a large corporation to exist. You could do that for pretty much everything you want to have in 40k. But again, it simply would not fit in with the atmosphere of the universe. That alone should be enough argument as to why there are no corporations in 40k.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

The big difference is that even if we do not have a unifying currency, we still all use money and have established a set exchange rate for all of our currencies. This is necessary for trade. The Imperium however doesn't use money at all, its economy is based on exchange of goods and services rather than exchange of wealth. This makes setting up a successful corporation (which is based around making profit and distributing that to its shareholders) pretty damn difficult.

I have never heard of the effect abolishing of currency - any source? It sound very dubious - currency is required for any sort of modern society (post Stone Age) to work. I mean, Orks use teef for a reason.

And the raison d'être of the corporation is based on limiting investment risks for investors. It's to prevent creditors going after the debtors in the case of a default.

As a student of archaeology, I can tell you that is nonsense. The vast majority of post stone age civilisations never had any sort of currency, let alone money. Historically, most economies were gift and barter economies. (gifting was usual when dealing with people within your community, bartering was common when dealing with strangers).
The Imperium works along feudal lines. All of its member worlds provide a tenth of their produce and manpower to the Imperium, and in return for that the Imperium provides safety. This is an exchange of goods for services i.e. barter. Currency is not needed here.
It is important to remember that the Imperium is not a modern society. Originally, 40k started out as being Warhammer Fantasy, but in space. This means that the Imperium was written as if it were a medieval state. And so it has always remained. This is a big part of why the Imperium seems so 'backwards' to us.

Also, as to a source saying that the Imperium has no currency, here is Dark Heresy 2nd Edition:

There is no standard currency across the Imperium, and
even in established sectors, few respect the coinage of
some far-distant world. For most, this is no matter. Very
few individuals travel between worlds in the 41st Millennium;
the majority of humans spend their entire existence within a
few kilometres of their birthplace, as they toil and sweat for the
Imperium in the countless billions. Acolytes might gain hoards of
precious coins on one world, only to find them worthless on the
next. They must rely instead on other means to purchase goods,
request aid, and offer material assistance.

Pretty clear, isn't it? If this does not sound like a feudal system to you, then you should open a history book.

To further illustrate the point:

Noble families thus
conduct warfare with each other to garner and defend power, in
battles often masked with subtlety, disguise, and innuendo, but
no less deadly than open combat. At such levels, mere currency
is worthless, and power is traded in favours and debts

Here it describes how the nobility has no need for currency.

The dominant unit of currency in the 41st Millennium is
Mankind itself, for it is upon the labour and spilled blood
of the teeming ranks of Humanity that the Imperium was
founded and is maintained. When exchanges of resources
and assets are inevitably required, these are often bartered,
and invariably on a staggering scale. An agri-world might
supply an entire season’s agricultural output to a nearby
forge world in exchange for the ongoing maintenance of
its mega-harvesters, for example, and without it, that forge
world would starve. While many worlds offer material goods
as part of their Imperial tithe, almost all must also provide
manpower levies to the Imperial Guard, and all worlds are
required to deliver any captured psykers to the Black Ships.
Local currencies are used on the planetary level. The
Blessed Remuneration of Service, or “gelt” as it is commonly
called, is the dominant coin on Juno, but despite that world’s
status as the capital of the Askellon Sector, the currency
has little value elsewhere. On Desoleum, Guild Scrip (or
simply “scrip”) is the standard currency when oath-cog
adjustments are insufficient or impractical, or when dealing
with offworlders without oath-bindings. Those on Thaur
trade with bone chips believed to be the work of venerable
carving-masters. These and other local currencies dominate
within a home planet, but it is barter and favours, debts and
obligations, that drive goods and services between the stars.
Those that serve an Inquisitor must be aware of such
issues. So long as they serve their master well, though, they
should have little need to trouble themselves with such petty
concerns as personal wealth, when they might die any day.
Few are paid for their services in currency, knowing that duty
is its own reward and that Emperor provides.

This is pretty much the exact argument I am making. While local currency exists on some worlds, it doesn't play a role in the economy of the Imperium on any scale beyond the planetary level.
I hope that settles the issue.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
No. The Imperium has no standard measure of wealth it uses to calculate tithes.

Might as well say "the Imperium has no Space Marines" if you're gonna go that far with your headcanon.

Except the quotes provided earlier show it is not merely headcanon. I have appended the relevant source and page number.

There is no standard currency across the Imperium, and
even in established sectors, few respect the coinage of
some far-distant world. For most, this is no matter. Very
few individuals travel between worlds in the 41st Millennium;
the majority of humans spend their entire existence within a
few kilometres of their birthplace, as they toil and sweat for the
Imperium in the countless billions. Acolytes might gain hoards of
precious coins on one world, only to find them worthless on the
next. They must rely instead on other means to purchase goods,
request aid, and offer material assistance.

-Dark Heresy 2nd edition, p. 140

The dominant unit of currency in the 41st Millennium is
Mankind itself, for it is upon the labour and spilled blood
of the teeming ranks of Humanity that the Imperium was
founded and is maintained. When exchanges of resources
and assets are inevitably required, these are often bartered,
and invariably on a staggering scale. An agri-world might
supply an entire season’s agricultural output to a nearby
forge world in exchange for the ongoing maintenance of
its mega-harvesters, for example, and without it, that forge
world would starve. While many worlds offer material goods
as part of their Imperial tithe, almost all must also provide
manpower levies to the Imperial Guard, and all worlds are
required to deliver any captured psykers to the Black Ships.
Local currencies are used on the planetary level. The
Blessed Remuneration of Service, or “gelt” as it is commonly
called, is the dominant coin on Juno, but despite that world’s
status as the capital of the Askellon Sector, the currency
has little value elsewhere. On Desoleum, Guild Scrip (or
simply “scrip”) is the standard currency when oath-cog
adjustments are insufficient or impractical, or when dealing
with offworlders without oath-bindings. Those on Thaur
trade with bone chips believed to be the work of venerable
carving-masters. These and other local currencies dominate
within a home planet, but it is barter and favours, debts and
obligations, that drive goods and services between the stars.
Those that serve an Inquisitor must be aware of such
issues. So long as they serve their master well, though, they
should have little need to trouble themselves with such petty
concerns as personal wealth, when they might die any day.
Few are paid for their services in currency, knowing that duty
is its own reward and that Emperor provides.

-Dark Heresy 2nd edition, p. 142

The Imperium may assess the productivity of a world, but it takes its dues in forms other than currency. It takes it in the form of raw resources, finished goods, services, manpower, or a combination thereof. Dark Heresy 1st edition's Calixis Sector seemed to have been able to impose general acceptability of its Throne Gelt currency across the sector (with some individual worlds still not accepting it), but there was no indication it was accepted anywhere beyond the sector. Dark Heresy 2nd edition's setting is a sector with less ability to impose such standards at the sector level and doesn't even try to do currency accounting in its game mechanics, reducing acquiring things down to a roll representing pulling strings and influence as much as actual hard currency.

To some extent assessing its taxation in actual goods might make sense for the Imperium. A ton of wheat from a given world will feed the same number of average humans for the same amount of time, year after year due to biology remaining the same whereas currencies can fluctuate. Likewise the generally static nature of technology in the Imperium means industrial needs can be predicted for as there are no groundbreaking innovations in process or efficiency. The Administratum cares about meeting the needs of worlds and armies in order to keep them going. Dealing in commodities might be a more stable form of accounting for them than fluctuating currencies.

 Melissia wrote:

Might as well say "the Imperium has no Space Marines" if you're gonna go that far with your headcanon.

Sure, that is a legitimate stance for those that try to claim there is no such thing as canon. If there is agreement that Space Marines exist in the 40K universe, then there is already a canon.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Because a corporation that works like a historical trading guild is a trading guild, not a corporation. There are plenty of similarities (both allow others to help fund a business venture and then share in the profit) but the way the organisations are structured is completely different. Unlike guilds, major corporations have elaborate, hierarchical organisations, vast amounts of personnel and dedicated supporting legal structures. There is no need for all that with the simple trading transactions you are describing.

Ultimately, 40k is so huge it is highly likely you could make up some circumstances that would allow a large corporation to exist. You could do that for pretty much everything you want to have in 40k. But again, it simply would not fit in with the atmosphere of the universe. That alone should be enough argument as to why there are no corporations in 40k.

Actually there is a reference to a financial market in one of the hives of the Calixis Sector. However this capitalism seems to function at the level of noble house and cartels rather than individuals. Corporations might exist but there are barriers (such as high price or various etiquette or customary/sumptuary laws) to anyone except the nobles or other institutions buying shares. They may be "corporations" in name but not in the sense that 21st century people use the term.

Trading guilds and the like may not be modern limited-liability corporations, but since that's only one modern meaning of the word, this thread is bogging down in semantics.

No-one's discussed the use of the term as describing the governing body of a city or municipal area, after all.

There are large organisations with huge numbers of members/employees and significant wealth conducting trade through the warp and between planetary systems. whether they're called Guilds, Rogue Trader Houses, Noble Families or Corporations is all just window dressing.

*sigh*

Okay, I guess it's time to educate people on basic economic facts taht apparently their education system has completely missed.

But first, because I am feeling incredibly petty and exhausted, I feel the need to point out that the quoted text here:

Iracundus wrote:
Except the quotes provided earlier show

...provides absolutely nothing that contradicts my argument, congratulations you fail at reading comprehension go straight to jail you may not pass go you may not collect 200 Throne Gelt.

I quote myself:

 Melissia wrote:
Vaguely. In some places. Mostly it's noble merchant houses like in renaissance Europe.

 Melissia wrote:
Grey Templar has the right of it in my view. The noble merchant houses, some of which are only big enough to support a single ship, tend to do trade like he described. Merchant Fleets are a thing that have been mentioned time and again in the background of 40k, they just don't get much focus because of the war focus of most 40k lore.

 Melissia wrote:
Hell, just to tell you how important the Chartist Captains and the merchant houses are?

They get an occasional voting seat on the council of the High Lords of Terra. The Speaker for the Chartist Captains actually commands more ships and potentially more power than the Lord High Admiral of the Imperial Navy depending on the state of the Imperium.

 Melissia wrote:
They act like businesses in the same way the merchant houses of the renaissance period did.

Seriously am I the only one that noticed the parallels, is this part of history THAT neglected by our colleges today?

 Melissia wrote:
You're defining "corporation" in a very weird way, that doesn't match the actual definition used by modern governments. A "Corporation" is a company or group of people legally authorized to act as a single legal entity. And in that regard, they definitely do exist in the Imperium and in fact are vital to its existence.

The strawman that's been continually posted here is an amusing diversion, but only shows the weakness of the common argument against the idea of "corporations" existing in the Imperium. Like the US Government, the Imperium has a standard unit of measure for wealth.

And that measure is taxation.

Absent other values (such as the dangerously unstable and uncontrollable "gold standard" concept pushed by some conspiracy theorists out there), a monetary unit's ability to pay government-mandated taxation establishes its value within any given trade system. This is seen on the US Dollar: "This note is legal tender for all debts public and private." The US Dollar, I should remind you, has no inherent value, it cannot be utilized as anything other htan potentially really bad quality toilet paper, or maybe insulation, and cannot be exchanged for any guaranteed goods and services... save for that it can be used to pay taxes owed to the US Government. And yet it is, at the moment, the single most stable and desired currency in the world. And it is this way BECAUSE it is acceptable as payment for taxation.

The Imperium demands exacting tithes from planets, and keeps very close eye on whether or not those tithes are payed.
Those tithes are just another way of saying "taxes". And like in real life, in 40k, only two things are inevitable-- death and taxes.
Everything else is up for grabs.

The Administratum determines a planet owes X amount of goods and services as a "tithe", AKA a tax. The planet or system or subsector passes this tax on to its citizens in whatever way it most desires. If the governor doesn't manage to extract this tax from his or her planet, he is executed, which provides a pretty strong incentive (much like the "you can go to jail" incentive in modern countries) to pay the tax. In the process, the planet usually produces some extra over the tax. It sells these to traders who visit the planet, either in exchange for the currency or in exchange for the goods the traders have-- it doesn't really matter, because due to the taxation administered, a monetary value can be established fairly easily for the exchange even if no actual money changes hands (this happens all the time in modern capitalism, and is recorded by modern accountants with absolutely no problems whatsoever). And the traders go on to exchange these exports somewhere else, increasing their personal wealth through profitable trading between planets.

These traders, trading families, merchant houses, and noble houses are legally authorized by the Imperium to trade as separate entities between the various planets, and they do so to varying degrees of success as the corporations that they undeniably are with their legally binding corporate charters granted to them by the Imperium. This is not really anything different than anything we already see here from the age of mercantilism to the modern day. The East India Trading Company is a great example of how this kind of corporation works-- hell, just like some trading groups in the Imperium, the EITC even took over countries and had them run under its thumb and guidance, and had its own armed forces! The only difference is that instead of the US Dollar or the value of gold or cloves determining the standard value for exchange, the Administratum's Tithe Grade determines the standard value. And the Imperial economy continues to chug along.

And if you got here without skipping over the explanation above, congratulations! You're now more educated about capitalism than you were before you read my post, and you now already know more about capitalism than most people do.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

As a student of archaeology, I can tell you that is nonsense. The vast majority of post stone age civilisations never had any sort of currency, let alone money. Historically, most economies were gift and barter economies. (gifting was usual when dealing with people within your community, bartering was common when dealing with strangers).

I don't think you know what currency means, then. Currency can be anything from seashells, feathers, fiat currency, fur, tea, blockchain. Currency, broadly speaking, just needs to be divisible, fungible, portable, and widely accepted in a given populace (Money is different in that in also retains inherent value over time).

 Iron_Captain wrote:

The Imperium works along feudal lines. All of its member worlds provide a tenth of their produce and manpower to the Imperium, and in return for that the Imperium provides safety. This is an exchange of goods for services i.e. barter. Currency is not needed here.
It is important to remember that the Imperium is not a modern society. Originally, 40k started out as being Warhammer Fantasy, but in space. This means that the Imperium was written as if it were a medieval state. And so it has always remained. This is a big part of why the Imperium seems so 'backwards' to us.

Right, money, in the form of gold and silver coins (with others denominations) was widely used in medieval times - it was celebrating (roughly) its 1500th birthday since its birth in Lydia. Yes, barter was a big part of the economy, but coinage was also widely used (and accepted).

While there's no single accepted currency within the Imperium, that's not what I'm arguing. I'm stating individual systems and planets use separate forms of currency, and I'd never heard of the IoM enacting (and enforcing) a ban on currency, which your sources do not state. They state there's no single accepted currency, which doesn't meant the same thing as there are no currencies. Furthermore, Necromunda guilders use credits as currency, so there you go. At least one form of currency is known to exist.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Also, as to a source saying that the Imperium has no currency, here is Dark Heresy 2nd Edition:

There is no standard currency across the Imperium, and
even in established sectors, few respect the coinage of
some far-distant world. For most, this is no matter. Very
few individuals travel between worlds in the 41st Millennium;
the majority of humans spend their entire existence within a
few kilometres of their birthplace, as they toil and sweat for the
Imperium in the countless billions. Acolytes might gain hoards of
precious coins on one world, only to find them worthless on the
next. They must rely instead on other means to purchase goods,
request aid, and offer material assistance.

Pretty clear, isn't it? If this does not sound like a feudal system to you, then you should open a history book.

To further illustrate the point:

Noble families thus
conduct warfare with each other to garner and defend power, in
battles often masked with subtlety, disguise, and innuendo, but
no less deadly than open combat. At such levels, mere currency
is worthless, and power is traded in favours and debts

Here it describes how the nobility has no need for currency.

The dominant unit of currency in the 41st Millennium is
Mankind itself, for it is upon the labour and spilled blood
of the teeming ranks of Humanity that the Imperium was
founded and is maintained. When exchanges of resources
and assets are inevitably required, these are often bartered,
and invariably on a staggering scale. An agri-world might
supply an entire season’s agricultural output to a nearby
forge world in exchange for the ongoing maintenance of
its mega-harvesters, for example, and without it, that forge
world would starve. While many worlds offer material goods
as part of their Imperial tithe, almost all must also provide
manpower levies to the Imperial Guard, and all worlds are
required to deliver any captured psykers to the Black Ships.
Local currencies are used on the planetary level. The
Blessed Remuneration of Service, or “gelt” as it is commonly
called, is the dominant coin on Juno, but despite that world’s
status as the capital of the Askellon Sector, the currency
has little value elsewhere. On Desoleum, Guild Scrip (or
simply “scrip”) is the standard currency when oath-cog
adjustments are insufficient or impractical, or when dealing
with offworlders without oath-bindings. Those on Thaur
trade with bone chips believed to be the work of venerable
carving-masters. These and other local currencies dominate
within a home planet, but it is barter and favours, debts and
obligations, that drive goods and services between the stars.
Those that serve an Inquisitor must be aware of such
issues. So long as they serve their master well, though, they
should have little need to trouble themselves with such petty
concerns as personal wealth, when they might die any day.
Few are paid for their services in currency, knowing that duty
is its own reward and that Emperor provides.

This is pretty much the exact argument I am making. While local currency exists on some worlds, it doesn't play a role in the economy of the Imperium on any scale beyond the planetary level.
I hope that settles the issue.

I asked you to state where it says currency no longer exists in the 40k universe. You did the opposite. I hope that settles the issue

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

As a student of archaeology, I can tell you that is nonsense. The vast majority of post stone age civilisations never had any sort of currency, let alone money. Historically, most economies were gift and barter economies. (gifting was usual when dealing with people within your community, bartering was common when dealing with strangers).

I don't think you know what currency means, then. Currency can be anything from seashells, feathers, fiat currency, fur, tea, blockchain. Currency, broadly speaking, just needs to be divisible, fungible, portable, and widely accepted in a given populace (Money is different in that in also retains inherent value over time).

 Iron_Captain wrote:

The Imperium works along feudal lines. All of its member worlds provide a tenth of their produce and manpower to the Imperium, and in return for that the Imperium provides safety. This is an exchange of goods for services i.e. barter. Currency is not needed here.
It is important to remember that the Imperium is not a modern society. Originally, 40k started out as being Warhammer Fantasy, but in space. This means that the Imperium was written as if it were a medieval state. And so it has always remained. This is a big part of why the Imperium seems so 'backwards' to us.

Right, money, in the form of gold and silver coins (with others denominations) was widely used in medieval times - it was celebrating (roughly) its 1500th birthday since its birth in Lydia. Yes, barter was a big part of the economy, but coinage was also widely used (and accepted).

Money can come in many different shapes and sizes. I've never argued otherwise. In the case of fiat money, the object itself is completely irrelevant after all. Commodity money just needs to be valuable (like sea shells or precious metals) and historically all kinds of things have been used because different cultures consider different things valuable. And coins were used in ancient and medieval society, but they were much more rare than they are in modern-day societies. Only the Romans and Chinese (afaik) had what can be called a money economy, that is an economy that relied primarily on using the face value of coins for the buying and selling goods and services rather than using its metal value to barter with. In most other societies coins were just pieces of valuable metal used for barter. This lasted in Europe until the late Middle Ages, during which money economies developed again and eventually gave rise to fiat money and our present-day monetary systems. But yeah, the point of this is that a society does not necessarily need money to function.

 ChazSexington wrote:
While there's no single accepted currency within the Imperium, that's not what I'm arguing. I'm stating individual systems and planets use separate forms of currency, and I'd never heard of the IoM enacting (and enforcing) a ban on currency, which your sources do not state. They state there's no single accepted currency, which doesn't meant the same thing as there are no currencies. Furthermore, Necromunda guilders use credits as currency, so there you go. At least one form of currency is known to exist.

I asked you to state where it says currency no longer exists in the 40k universe. You did the opposite. I hope that settles the issue

It seems we are not even in disagreement then!
I said that the Imperium does not have a currency. I never said that there is no currency at all within the Imperium. Planets and organisations in the Imperium can and do all have their own little currencies and forms of money. But the Imperium itself does not have a currency and does not issue money of any kind. Seems like we got confused in semantics and actually share the same opinion.

 Melissia wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
No. The Imperium has no standard measure of wealth it uses to calculate tithes.

Might as well say "the Imperium has no Space Marines" if you're gonna go that far with your headcanon.

The fluff blatantly states in many different places that the Imperium has Space Marines. The fluff nowhere states things like "The Imperium uses tithe grades as a standard unit for measure of wealth". Ergo, you are making this up and therefore it is headcanon.

While I do like the system you have described, there are plenty of issues with it. Let's take a carrot-producing agri world (tithe grade: Solutio Prima) and a rare plasma weapon-producing forgeworld (Tithe grade: Exactis Particular). On the agri world people are free farmers. Every farmer voluntarily gives 10% of his harvest to the planetary governor so he can pay the tithe. In return the governor and his PDF protect the farmers from the planet's Ork tribes. Both planets meet their production quota and transfer 10% of it to the Administratum as tithe. Now both worlds still have 90% of their production left. On the forgeworld, people are slaves, bonded in servitude and forced to work in the factories. Food and habitation for the slaves are provided by the world's authorities. Neither world has need of a currency. I am a rogue trader arriving at both of these worlds. I am interested in getting plasma weapons so I want to trade carrots to the forgeworld's factories so they can feed their workers in exchange for the plasma weapons. First challenge: buying the carrots from the farmers. My holds have fertiliser that the farmers want, but how do we determine how much carrots I can get for a certain amount of fertiliser? In other words, how does taxation establish the value of the carrots vs the value of the fertiliser?
And later when I arrive at the forgeworld (let's say I have got 15% of the agri world's total carrot production in my hold) how can I know how much plasma weapons I am going to get for my carrots?
Please explain this to me.
Seems to me the only way this is going to be done is through bartering, with value being completely relative depending on local supply and demand and thus no way of establishing the value of an object in an abstract standard, Imperium-wide measure.
But maybe I am just not understanding properly what you are wanting to say.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The fluff blatantly states in many different places that the Imperium has Space Marines

And the fluff blatantly states in many places that the Imperium demands exacting taxation from the various planets under its control, but you're sitting here pretending it doesn't, so hey might as well say there's no space marines, too.

Simply put, it doesn't matter if nothing you awkwardly define as "currency" changes hands during an exchange of goods, and your continual pushing of this argument is in contradicton both the lore AND of basic economic theory. We have tons of exchanges going on right now that have absolutely no money exchange hands-- between corporations, no less. And yet we are able to record the value of those exchanges perfectly fine. There is no reason to think that the billions-strong Adeptus Administratum or the money-grubbing scribes of any of the noble merchant houses are incapable of valuing the exchanges of items, and yet here you are assuming such incapability.

And, to go back to the original question, these entities are, themselves, corporations. In fact, they even fit the modern definition of corporations! The main difference is that modern corporate charters often give a much broader set of freedoms than Imperial corporate charters do. But they don't always do that. There's plenty of examples of corporations taht are restricted by their charter from operating outside their home countries, or have themselves only legally exist until a certain goal is met, and so on, just like the restrictions on the corporate charters the Imperium hands out.

And all of this is spelled out in the lore-- lore that goes as far back as at least 1991 (White Dwarf #s 139 and 140, which went in to detail on the matter of merchant charters) and exists as recently as just a few years ago with the Rogue Trader RPG and its supplements, plus other new additions.

 Melissia wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The fluff blatantly states in many different places that the Imperium has Space Marines

And the fluff blatantly states in many places that the Imperium demands exacting taxation from the various planets under its control, but you're sitting here pretending it doesn't, so hey might as well say there's no space marines, too.

The fluff states that the Imperium exacts a tithe from every world (apart from the worlds which are exempt from tithing) under its control. That is all. The fluff does not state any of the things that you have build upon this statement and have put forward in this thread. That is your headcanon, and while I think it is good headcanon and its perfectly fine for you to make that up (I make up lots of headcanon as well), it is not supported by the background.

I also can't help but notice that you failed to adress my response or answer any of my questions.

 Melissia wrote:
Simply put, it doesn't matter if nothing you awkwardly define as "currency" changes hands during an exchange of goods, and your continual pushing of this argument is in contradicton both the lore AND of basic economic theory. We have tons of exchanges going on right now that have absolutely no money exchange hands-- between corporations, no less. And yet we are able to record the value of those exchanges perfectly fine. There is no reason to think that the billions-strong Adeptus Administratum or the money-grubbing scribes of any of the noble merchant houses are incapable of valuing the exchanges of items, and yet here you are assuming such incapability.

A currency is a system of money. That is not an awkward definition, that is the commonly accepted meaning of the word. An exchange of goods without the use of money is called barter. For there to be barter there needs to be a coincidence of wants. That means that the value of any good being bartered is only relative to the degree that the other party wants said good. Therefore it is inherently impossible to assign any sort of absolute universal 'value' to such a transaction. The value of said transaction depends entirely on the parties involved in it. You could assess the value of the goods involved in the transactions, but for that you'd need a shared currency (or system of currency) to express the value in, and most importantly data on the supply and demand for the goods in question.

Just to give a concrete example again: Noble House A lives on Planet A. House A really wants to have a large amount of Tribbles, which are considered prestigious pets on Planet A. Unfortunately, Tribbles are virtually extinct on Planet A and therefore very difficult to come by. In the rest of the universe however, including on Planet B, home of noble house B, Tribbles are incredibly common and regarded as pests. Planet A meanwhile, is home to large resources of Unobtainium, a mineral that is extremely rare on Planet B and in the rest of the universe. Planet A and B do not share the same currency, and have no idea what the other's currency would be worth in their own. House A and House B make a trade with each other. They exchange a large amount of Tribbles for an equally large amount of Unobtainium. Both houses consider this to have been a great deal, and their standing on their homeworld improved considerably. What was the value of this deal? What was the value of the Tribbles? And what was the value of the Unobtainium? For an outsider, it would not be possible to assign a universal value to this transaction or the goods involved in it, because its value is completely dependent on where you stand. I.e. it is relative.

I don't think that in the modern day, there are any transactions between corporations that do not involve currency. If you think otherwise, I'd like you to show me an example. Even if in a transaction there is no money changing hands, money will still be used to express the value of the goods being exchanged. We can value those transactions only because we can express them in currency (which we can only do because we have an advanced market economy). In a world where there is no shared currency nor an advanced market economy, that would not be possible.