Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/04/13 15:40:35
Subject: Re:preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
I can't quantify that statement. I can quantify that it is a huge chunk, but have no numbers to give since I couldn't even find liberal vs conservative numbers. So yes. I have however quantified the large influence it has.
10k CSM
1.5k Thousand Sons
2k Death Guard
3k Tau
3k Daemons(Tzeentch and Nurgle)
2017/04/13 15:51:12
Subject: Re:preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
No you haven't. You've told us to look at the following of some people listed "and some others" (which is in itself vauge) without having any numbers to compare them to.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2017/04/13 15:53:27
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
jasper76 wrote: I'm trying to envision how they can possibly extend the story of Broadchurch to a 3rd Season, and I'm coming up blank.
I hope they don't jump the shark. I loved the first 2 seasons.
I want some more Happy Valley...that was another good one from the UK.
Not to give anything away, there is a rape in the town and the police (Hardy and Miller) investigate it, with the usual complications of nearly every character from the first two series being involved in some way, plus some new people. (If anything, there may be too many characters involved for my taste.)
They won't jump the shark as this is confirmed to be the end of Broadchurch.
redleger wrote: I just watched the Dave Rubin interview with Trae Crowder. This directly relates to what we have been talking about and I found it interesting since there seems to be such a denial that the regressive left is not in the majority. He told a story about being on stage, telling a satirical joke. He was quoting a fake homophobe and in the bit he used the F word. Well the immediate follow on to the bit was where he tears this satirical homophobe a new one in order to show the ridiculousness of thinking that way. By and large his feedback was negative simply because he used the word, regardless of context and it didn't matter that he was using satire. Dave Rubin immediately understood the point of the satire, and agrees we need more satire to help root out, and bring light of major issues.
So if context has no bearing in your opinion, then is satire now off limits? This is for everyone, i am not typing to any one person.
Edit: Trae Crowder's whole schtick is he is a redneck liberal. He uses his status as former white trailer park trash to create satire based on how he grew up and his liberal views as a southerner.
My friend is "triggered" by the word <bundle of sticks>. It's what was chanted at him by his entire high school gym class while three or four ringleaders kicked the gak out of him in the locker room. The ringleaders got suspended, the class got a lecture, and my friend missed three weeks of school. He's a hilarious guy, fiercely loyal to his friends, generous to a fault, but if you use that word in his earshot you find out that , in his words, "kitty's got claws."
It's a loaded word, Trae knows this and includes it to add shock value to his show. That's part of making art, you're going to provoke a reaction.
Also, people in college are idiots, that's why they are in college, to learn how to be adults. Those who figure that out move on and join society. Those who can't figure out how to adult properly either flunk out and pump gas professionally or stay and become professors.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2017/04/13 17:03:45
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
feeder wrote: Also, people in college are idiots, that's why they are in college, to learn how to be adults. Those who figure that out move on and join society. Those who can't figure out how to adult properly either flunk out and pump gas professionally or stay and become professors.
Do safe spaces and trigger warnings and being shielded from potentially offensive words like "lame" do anything to help an individual transition from adolescence to adulthood?
I don't think so, and to the extent that students are subjected to this kind of coddling, I wonder if they exit college more or less wise than when they arrived.
2017/04/13 17:12:21
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
feeder wrote: Also, people in college are idiots, that's why they are in college, to learn how to be adults. Those who figure that out move on and join society. Those who can't figure out how to adult properly either flunk out and pump gas professionally or stay and become professors.
Do safe spaces and trigger warnings and being shielded from potentially offensive words like "lame" do anything to help an individual transition from adolescence to adulthood?
I don't think so, and to the extent that students are subjected to this kind of coddling, I wonder if they exit college more or less wise than when they arrived.
I remember going down this road recently (not sure who with) and the upshot was that the whole "safe space", "trigger warning" and word police was largely a fabricated issue. Yes, it exists, but not in the manner or to the extent the right wing blogosphere is chicken little-ing it's collective underwears over.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2017/04/13 17:18:07
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
feeder wrote: Also, people in college are idiots, that's why they are in college, to learn how to be adults. Those who figure that out move on and join society. Those who can't figure out how to adult properly either flunk out and pump gas professionally or stay and become professors.
Do safe spaces and trigger warnings and being shielded from potentially offensive words like "lame" do anything to help an individual transition from adolescence to adulthood?
I don't think so, and to the extent that students are subjected to this kind of coddling, I wonder if they exit college more or less wise than when they arrived.
I remember going down this road recently (not sure who with) and the upshot was that the whole "safe space", "trigger warning" and word police was largely a fabricated issue. Yes, it exists, but not in the manner or to the extent the right wing blogosphere is chicken little-ing it's collective underwears over.
Gad Saad is a college professor who has been fighting this and he is a liberal. If it wasn't an issue except on the right, then what would there be for him to fight?
10k CSM
1.5k Thousand Sons
2k Death Guard
3k Tau
3k Daemons(Tzeentch and Nurgle)
2017/04/13 17:19:34
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
I remember going down this road recently (not sure who with) and the upshot was that the whole "safe space", "trigger warning" and word police was largely a fabricated issue. Yes, it exists, but not in the manner or to the extent the right wing blogosphere is chicken little-ing it's collective underwears over.
Criticism of these phenomena are coming from both the left and the right, FWIW.
In any case, it's the word of a person you were going down the road with who you don't remember, vs. the word of people who actually work in academia and produce blogs, articles, and so forth fighting against this stuff that they are personally witnessing and experiencing.
I'm inclined to listen to the people who work in academia, though I admit I haven't been on a campus in a long time, so I don't have first hand experience myself.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Incidentally, if you want to hear a thoughtful and somewhat brief conversation on these subjects, here's a good interview of Jonathan Haidt by Sam Harris.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/04/13 18:23:16
2017/04/13 18:25:19
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
I remember going down this road recently (not sure who with) and the upshot was that the whole "safe space", "trigger warning" and word police was largely a fabricated issue. Yes, it exists, but not in the manner or to the extent the right wing blogosphere is chicken little-ing it's collective underwears over.
Criticism of these phenomena are coming from both the left and the right, FWIW.
In any case, it's the word of a person you were going down the road with who you don't remember, vs. the word of people who actually work in academia and produce blogs, articles, and so forth fighting against this stuff that they are personally witnessing and experiencing.
I guess. I'm not willing to invest anymore time into the hand wringing hysteria that "the left is destroying our society!" crowd is currently circle jerking themselves into a frenzy over.
College always has and always will be full of young people exploding into adults and all the messy big feelings and stupid ideas that entails. We're fine.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2017/04/13 18:27:48
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
I remember going down this road recently (not sure who with) and the upshot was that the whole "safe space", "trigger warning" and word police was largely a fabricated issue. Yes, it exists, but not in the manner or to the extent the right wing blogosphere is chicken little-ing it's collective underwears over.
Criticism of these phenomena are coming from both the left and the right, FWIW.
In any case, it's the word of a person you were going down the road with who you don't remember, vs. the word of people who actually work in academia and produce blogs, articles, and so forth fighting against this stuff that they are personally witnessing and experiencing.
I guess. I'm not willing to invest anymore time into the hand wringing hysteria that "the left is destroying our society!" crowd is currently circle jerking themselves into a frenzy over.
College always has and always will be full of young people exploding into adults and all the messy big feelings and stupid ideas that entails. We're fine.
Agreed. However they already are adults.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2017/04/13 18:30:25
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
Only in college. Everywhere else you are an adult. In other countries you're a Dad and have been an adult for some time.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2017/04/13 18:56:46
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
I disagree. I called the number one job I had as a construction foreman "herding cats" precisely because of, well, "kids these days". If he was under 25 I didn't trust him until he proved himself.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2017/04/13 18:57:16
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
I have left leanings and I gather Jasper does as well. No one is saying liberals are destroying the world. I am saying regressives are destroying the Democratic party and many are finally standing up and talking about this. In fact regressives are the ones to dismiss thought so quickly with narritives outside the conversation such as "liberals are destroying the world" when in fact no one is saying that.
10k CSM
1.5k Thousand Sons
2k Death Guard
3k Tau
3k Daemons(Tzeentch and Nurgle)
2017/04/13 20:41:14
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
redleger wrote: I have left leanings and I gather Jasper does as well. No one is saying liberals are destroying the world. I am saying regressives are destroying the Democratic party and many are finally standing up and talking about this. In fact regressives are the ones to dismiss thought so quickly with narritives outside the conversation such as "liberals are destroying the world" when in fact no one is saying that.
I agree with much of this. Outside of abortion, I am pretty left leaning on almost every box you can check.
I don't think liberals are destroying the world, or anything like it. To the contrary, I think liberals are our primary hope in saving the left from regressives, who are demonstrably illiberal, in some cases even zealots.
The reason I get exercised over these issues is I don't want the regressives to win the war for the left. If they win, we are going to be governed by Trump after Trump after Trump. While regressives argue over whether words like "lame" are beyond the pale, the rest of the country laughs their asses off at how stupid this first-world "problem" is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/13 20:43:06
2017/04/13 20:42:19
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
redleger wrote: I have left leanings and I gather Jasper does as well. No one is saying liberals are destroying the world. I am saying regressives are destroying the Democratic party and many are finally standing up and talking about this. In fact regressives are the ones to dismiss thought so quickly with narritives outside the conversation such as "liberals are destroying the world" when in fact no one is saying that.
Sure, I was employing a bit of hyperbole, but my central point stands. These people are essentially trolls. They have exactly as much impact and influence as we are willing to give them.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2017/04/13 20:42:19
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
I guess. I'm not willing to invest anymore time into the hand wringing hysteria that "the left is destroying our society!" crowd is currently circle jerking themselves into a frenzy over.
Yeah, this is a weird one. Even here in the Netherlands there are people blaming "the left" for everything that's going wrong here - even though we haven't had a left-wing government in well over a decade. Well, left-wing by Dutch standards, anyway.
2017/04/13 20:57:05
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
I guess. I'm not willing to invest anymore time into the hand wringing hysteria that "the left is destroying our society!" crowd is currently circle jerking themselves into a frenzy over.
Yeah, this is a weird one. Even here in the Netherlands there are people blaming "the left" for everything that's going wrong here - even though we haven't had a left-wing government in well over a decade. Well, left-wing by Dutch standards, anyway.
well in the context we are discussing, the regressive left is why Trump won the election, and rightfully so. I mean their rhetoric was wearing thin. I am not saying I wished him to win, but when you sit down and think about how it happened, his campaign didn't win on its own merits, it was handed to him by people who were feeling marginalized and called names by the far left in order to win what should have been proper discourse. You can only attempt to talk with far gone liberals so many times before you realize they only have one tool in the tool box. Feminism today is along the same lines. Hold a door for a woman, we now label you a sexist. This thread is full of regressive ideology which is in fact how Trump won the presidency.Feeder is right , we will get republican after republican unless this stops.
10k CSM
1.5k Thousand Sons
2k Death Guard
3k Tau
3k Daemons(Tzeentch and Nurgle)
2017/04/13 20:59:57
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
We have a local that has words that 'trigger'... him... her... them? I don't know and I'm pretty sure they haven't made a final decision on it, either.
But, this person has little tantrums every time someone uses one of any number of words- none of them vulgar or outright directed at anyone to disparage them. So we just started calling authorities to reporting a mentally unstable person.
If you can't handle common slang language, you shouldn't be out around normal people.
I have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from Iraq. It's not really bad, but it's there. Certain things like sounds or phrases get me weird and hyper-vigilant and paranoid. Do you know what a licensed medical professional taught me? "Don't whine and expect the world to adapt to you, it's bigger than you and it'll smash your ass. Adapt to it, or seek inpatient treatment."
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2017/04/13 21:06:44
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
well in the context we are discussing, the regressive left is why Trump won the election
No. In no way is that remotely true.
Lies about bringing jobs back to the Rust belt and coal mines elected Trump. He won by about 70,000 votes in those formerly blue states.
The places where the regressive left has any volume, Cali for example, went blue in a landslide.
You have Trump because he promised to bring jobs back from China and just enough rubes fell for his patter.
edit; fix quote derp
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/13 21:07:20
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2017/04/13 21:07:36
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: We have a local that has words that 'trigger'... him... her... them? I don't know and I'm pretty sure they haven't made a final decision on it, either.
But, this person has little tantrums every time someone uses one of any number of words- none of them vulgar or outright directed at anyone to disparage them. So we just started calling authorities to reporting a mentally unstable person.
If you can't handle common slang language, you shouldn't be out around normal people.
I have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from Iraq. It's not really bad, but it's there. Certain things like sounds or phrases get me weird and hyper-vigilant and paranoid. Do you know what a licensed medical professional taught me? "Don't whine and expect the world to adapt to you, it's bigger than you and it'll smash your ass. Adapt to it, or seek inpatient treatment."
Mine said something similary, and I think its the best possibly point I could make. Its why I rage against the far left until its no longer a viable view point so that we can all get back to talking about issues, and not hiding from each other over fear of hurting peoples feelings.
10k CSM
1.5k Thousand Sons
2k Death Guard
3k Tau
3k Daemons(Tzeentch and Nurgle)
2017/04/13 21:10:25
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
redleger wrote: Mine said something similary, and I think its the best possibly point I could make. Its why I rage against the far left until its no longer a viable view point so that we can all get back to talking about issues, and not hiding from each other over fear of hurting peoples feelings.
I was brought up in a household where if one of us tattled because one of our siblings said something mean, my father said "Where are you bleeding?"
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2017/04/13 21:13:05
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
well in the context we are discussing, the regressive left is why Trump won the election
No. In no way is that remotely true.
Lies about bringing jobs back to the Rust belt and coal mines elected Trump. He won by about 70,000 votes in those formerly blue states.
The places where the regressive left has any volume, Cali for example, went blue in a landslide.
You have Trump because he promised to bring jobs back from China and just enough rubes fell for his patter.
edit; fix quote derp
Although I think Trumps economic message did play a big part, I think you are underestimating the contempt with which many Americans view the regressive left.
IME, and in retrospect, the moment Clinton lost the election was when she towed the regressive line by calling half of Trump supporters racist, sexist, islamophobic, homophobic, you name it.
People are dead sick of this gak.
And word policing is part of this, so it's relevant to the thread.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/13 21:15:16
2017/04/13 21:15:03
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
well in the context we are discussing, the regressive left is why Trump won the election
No. In no way is that remotely true.
Lies about bringing jobs back to the Rust belt and coal mines elected Trump. He won by about 70,000 votes in those formerly blue states.
The places where the regressive left has any volume, Cali for example, went blue in a landslide.
You have Trump because he promised to bring jobs back from China and just enough rubes fell for his patter.
edit; fix quote derp
Although I think Trumps economic message did play a big part, I think you are underestimating the contempt with which many Americans view the regressive left.
IME, and in retrospect, the moment Clinton lost the election was when she towed the regressive line by calling half of Trump supporters racist, sexist, islamophobic, homophobic, you name it.
People are dead sick of this gak.
I thought "telling it like it is" was a laudable quality?
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
2017/04/13 21:15:44
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
jasper76 wrote: IME, and in retrospect, the moment Clinton lost the election was when she towed the regressive line by calling half of Trump supporters racist, sexist, islamophobic, homophobic, you name it.
People are dead sick of this gak.
I figured she lost most of her supporters when she had that circus at her nomination- the girl pretending to speak bad English, the midget with the 'little guy' comment, and every other dumpster fire. It wasn't cute, or witty- it was an insult to the intelligence of everyone. It was blatant pandering, and it said exactly what she thought of the average voter.
Mob Rule is not a rule.
2017/04/13 21:21:31
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
IME, and in retrospect, the moment Clinton lost the election was when she towed the regressive line by calling half of Trump supporters racist, sexist, islamophobic, homophobic, you name it.
People are dead sick of this gak.
I thought "telling it like it is" was a laudable quality?
It's a bit funny, I suppose, but mostly sad that our political discourse has degraded to the point that our political opponents must be horrible people.
I have been at it against the regressives pretty hard in this thread, but I do believe, at least, that they are for the most part well-meaning and think they are doing the right thing in pushing their agenda.
2017/04/13 21:32:40
Subject: preventing Ableism-Too much or not enough/ ideals vs people, a discussion on whats ok.
well in the context we are discussing, the regressive left is why Trump won the election
No. In no way is that remotely true.
Lies about bringing jobs back to the Rust belt and coal mines elected Trump. He won by about 70,000 votes in those formerly blue states.
The places where the regressive left has any volume, Cali for example, went blue in a landslide.
You have Trump because he promised to bring jobs back from China and just enough rubes fell for his patter.
edit; fix quote derp
Although I think Trumps economic message did play a big part, I think you are underestimating the contempt with which many Americans view the regressive left.
IME, and in retrospect, the moment Clinton lost the election was when she towed the regressive line by calling half of Trump supporters racist, sexist, islamophobic, homophobic, you name it.
People are dead sick of this gak.
I thought "telling it like it is" was a laudable quality?
so you then do believe anyone for Trump is one of those key words?
IME, and in retrospect, the moment Clinton lost the election was when she towed the regressive line by calling half of Trump supporters racist, sexist, islamophobic, homophobic, you name it.
People are dead sick of this gak.
I thought "telling it like it is" was a laudable quality?
It's a bit funny, I suppose, but mostly sad that our political discourse has degraded to the point that our political opponents must be horrible people.
I have been at it against the regressives pretty hard in this thread, but I do believe, at least, that they are for the most part well-meaning and think they are doing the right thing in pushing their agenda.
The road to hell and all that. Yes it is I am sure believed by many that by oppressing freedom of speech and marginalizing people who happen to be born white middle class is doing the right thing, but I would like to think the "enlightened" are smarter than that. Maybe I'm wrong though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/13 21:34:26
10k CSM
1.5k Thousand Sons
2k Death Guard
3k Tau
3k Daemons(Tzeentch and Nurgle)
