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Hi All,

I'm playing with orks on still a beginner level for about a year now, mostly on tournaments that I just had one today, but did not really shine.
Any input by more elite greenskin tamers is highly welcome. I would like to be a bit more competitive with these guys.

I was running an old school Great Waaagh detachment, to try how fun it is to have a chance to deep strike (DS on 6+ during deployment for any unit).
Must add that I am still not very familiar with any other armies, unit names, characteristics, roles.

List:
- 2 x mini meganob units (3 nob + trukk) to hit armoured stuff
- 2 x 7 Lootas - for vehicles or mobs
- Megaboss + Lucky Stikk + 6 nobz + Battlewagon (4bigshootas) - armoured mini deathstar
- Shokk Attakk gun Big Mek with gretchin - artillery
- 10boyz + PK nob + trukk - general purpose
- 5 bikers + PK nob - lay down 18 twin linked shots of S5T5 to anything then charge in

Game 1 - Grey Nights - not typically the best pairing for orks
Battlewagon got killed on turn 1 from 2 side armour melta shots from deep striking marines - is a single battlewagon a waste of points?
Surprisingly I was able to dominate a bit in the first two rounds as my opponent needed to keep the 2 dreadknights in his starting position because of his malestrom objefctives (short side setup also helped to keep distance). Later on they got loose, I charged in with meganobz but none survived until I1 to hit. If i had larger meganob units they would have a chance, but still lose 3 boyz / melee round. Normally how you counter dreadknights with orks?
Shokk attakk gun was fun, almost wiped out his whole HQ mob, but later seemed extremely unreliable (1 hit / 5 shots). The randomness is cool, but it scattered all over. With BS 2 it seems uncontrollable (if on 2D6 I average 7 it still scatters 5 inch, so the big blast surely leaves the target).
Should I take more than 1 shokk attakk guns? Or how to utilize it better? Or should I forget it on a competitive level?

I won game 2 on wipeout against a melta spam marine army, but only because of extremely bad throws by my opponent. Nothing to take from here.

Game 3 - Eldar (Ynnari)
A wraithknight, those D flamer dolphin heads in a tank, long range shooters, 2 units of jetbikes, lots of psi.
I gave it up on turn 3.
The wraithknight seemed unkillable. Hits first, instant death on quite anything, I was chopping it with more units at a time but could only get 2 wounds off. After his first charge he charged again in the same turn, because of T8 normal orks could not hit it at all, things like that. I could have applied more pressure with charging in with 2 sets of Meganobz + Nobz with warboss but that would have meant no more than 2 more woulds of damage I think, and those D-flamer guys would have got some working space. Any advice against wraithknight lists with orks?
Wraithguard D flamers wipe out any unit types of mine and kills anything from overwatch. They tend to arrive in transports. If I charge in, I most possibly kill the transport, but then I get the D flame pain. How you handle D flamer wraithguard with orks?

Thanks for any advice!

its sad to have to say, but orks are just so overcosted, and armies your likely to see in tournaments are all undercosted. Youd probably need about 30-40% more points to be on par with some of the harder competative lists out there.

Things might change midsummer, so for now concentrate on making your army nice, and having fun games playing with people at these events.

Hi, if you want to play tournaments you should change something:

- A single battlewagon can be fine but fill it with boyz instead of nobz, they are ablative wounds for the warboss and can also unleash tons of attacks.

- Take regular bikers instead of nobz, with the same amount of points you can field more than twice of them.

- Big mek is cool, stick a couple of KMKs with him though. On SAG is certainly enough.

- A couple of single koptas are extremely helpful, and typically make you score some points.

- If you don't have enough rooms for FA or HS go double CAD, you already have two bosses and two troops. 2 min units of boyz in trukks (or maybe a second gretchin squad) are not particularly expensive. Try 2x10 boyz in trukks, 10 gretchin and 18 boyz that join the warboss. You can also spread the lootas into 3x5 units.

Eldar ynnari are extremely powerful, you can't really counter them with orks, just try to play objectives. The wraitknight can only be killed by tons of pks attacks, most of the times it doesn't worth the sacrifice of your meganobz/warboss and you may not kill it anyway.

Against GK you shouldn't have many problems, they should be outnumbered by orks. About the dreadknight, ignore it if you can't destroy it, kill the rest of the army instead. But with lootas and some pk it should go down, try to assault it with 18 boyz plus the warboss in a BW, with the boyz that soak the dreadkight's attacks.

Orks really struggle because most ork players bring a bunch of everything without any strategy. A battlewagon, some boyz, a few bikes, no it won't work. Orks can do very well because of 2 things:

1: lucky stikk.
2: weirdboyz that can use sanctic.

With this you can make a great deathstar army:

ORK DEATHSTARR ARMY

1. Mogrok’s Bossboyz Formation (Primary)

HQ1 (Warlord): Big Mek Mogrok, Da Finking Kapp, Mega Armor
HQ2: Big Mek, Warbike, Big choppa
HQ3: Big Mek, Warbike, Big choppa
HQ4: Warboss, Lucky stikk, Mega Armor
HQ5: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

2. Waaagh Ghagzhskull supplement CAD

HQ6: Big Mek, Warbike, Mega force field, Big bosspole, Big choppa
HQ7: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

TROOPS 1: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 2: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade

3. Ork Horde Detachment

HQ8: Mad Dok Grotsnik The Painboss
HQ9: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2
HQ10: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

TROOPS 3: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 4: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 5: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade

HEAVY SUPPORT 1: 15x Loota's

FORTIFICATION: Aegis defence line

4. Orks CAD

HQ11: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2
HQ12: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

TROOPS 6: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 7: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade

LORD OF WAR: Ghahzkull Thraka the beast of Armageddon


Mogrok: already got +1 seize and could get another +1 seize with strategic warlord trait.
Weirdboyz; can use sanctic (also malific if you got daemons) and get +1 inv save in combination with mega kustom force field. Activating 'force" and/or +2 strenght makes weirboyz very scary in close combat.
it's a big bubble but the can also teleport.
Loota's: can still shoot after moving because mega armor characters give slow but purposeful.
Mad dock: gives fearless and feel no pain.

Keep the lucky stick mega warboss in the front, thrakka and mogrok (1 reroll armorsave per turn) at the flank. Big mek's on bikes can detach at any time.

Its fun and can be very effective!

Not convinced about that one I'm afraid. No ObSec, only three PKs and a deathstar made up of characters and grots (?), Ghazghkull costs too much just for his Waaagh!, Weirdboyz aren't scary even with Hammerhand and Force (AP4 sucks), low mobility (good luck Deepstriking a blob like that), even if you get Sanctuary it's only a 3++ for one turn and the Weirdboyz will probably Perils himself to death and it's not even legal to have a Waaagh! Ghazghkull CAD. Our HQs are just too expensive for what you get to be used like this, particularly the named ones and Big Meks. There's a reason you only really see Warbosses and Painboys these days. It's a crazy and original list for sure and would be fun to play but practically I'm not convinced it will perform.

I certainly agree with the importance of the lucky stikk, most of my big kills come from the rerollable to hits and to wounds (killed one of the dreadknights with that, and the guy on the other side of the table seemed really surprised). I tell them before every game that I can reroll any amount of dice I want, but they all seem to underestimate this. Maybe they do not think I dare to do that more than three times. :-)

Weirdboyz, I don't know. Only tried once with a single boy with no real success. I was also thinking about a 3xweirdboy army to summon demons, but sanctic did not seem that interesting. But I will certainly have a look.

For me weirdboys seemed unreliable shooting units with the advantage of having some blast template shots (that is quite practical for us). Why to fear perils? Because of LD7?

You really cannot take CADs with Ghaz formations? That seems to be against the spirit of the game.

This list with lots of big meks seems weird for me. Those few wins I got came mainly because of two options:
- Having lots of units, mainly all below 150-200points, varied setups but at least 1 PK everywhere, giving me lots of options to assault together or run away, and not suffering that many casaulties at once that would break the whole army. That was the plan now, too, but these big hitters like dreadknights or wraithknight counter this quite well
- Running a green tide (100 boyz + 10PK + boss) with mega force field and big bosspole (fearless for the whole unit) - last time it was countered with only one large marine biker gang that got into close combat, hit first all the time and chopped down as much orks that I could not even pile in that much to hit back. It was like pulling the plug in the bathtub, all the boyz were streaming towards one direction and losing numbers continuously.

I was also thinking about assembling the big Ghaz deathstar, but that is close to 1000 points for jsut one unit if kitted out properly. That is some luxorious overspecialization for an ork army.

Splitting lootas even more to smaller units and adding kustom mega kannons seems reasonable.

Thanks for all the input guys, keep it green!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
One more thing.

Do you see orks placing let's say top three in your local tournaments?

If yes, what lists are they running?

xlDuke wrote:
Not convinced about that one I'm afraid. No ObSec,

A lot of grots got objective secured and mogrok gives d3 units outflank and acute senses.

xlDuke wrote:
only three PKs and a deathstar made up of characters and grots (?),

That's 4 powerclaws (mogrok,warboss, Traka, mad dok) 2x big choppa + 6 x force stave with possible +2 strenght (hammerhand) and furious charge. Also dont forget that normal loota's with hammerhand and furious charge could bring S7 hits. Do you really need more?

xlDuke wrote:
Ghazghkull costs too much just for his Waaagh!

You don't use the waagh, you use his 'eternal warrior'. If you don't get that then you don't understand the concept of this list.

xlDuke wrote:
Weirdboyz aren't scary even with Hammerhand and Force (AP4 sucks),

The bring high strength instant kill attacks that strike before stomp attacks or unwieldy attacks. One weirdboy is not scary. A unit with 6+ with the right upgrades can be a 'no go' for other deadstars.

xlDuke wrote:
low mobility (good luck Deepstriking a blob like that),

The blob is big but you can decide how you place your models. I pick a particular point on the table that if I scatter I could always make a bubble that never get's within 1 inch of an enemy unit. If I get more 'gates' then I could aim for the right scatter.

xlDuke wrote:
even if you get Sanctuary it's only a 3++ for one turn and the Weirdboyz will probably Perils himself to death

That's a 3+ with reroll if the lucky stikk warboss stays at the front(and feel no pain). Also weirdboy get's feel no pain against perils. I could also get more sanctuary with 6x level 2 weirdboyz.

xlDuke wrote:
and it's not even legal to have a Waaagh! Ghazghkull CAD.

I believe thats still a debate. Just check this with your TO.

xlDuke wrote:
Our HQs are just too expensive for what you get to be used like this, particularly the named ones and Big Meks.

It's all about synergy. A barkstar also got big expensive characters to take hits or give extra upgrades.

xlDuke wrote:
There's a reason you only really see Warbosses and Painboys these days. It's a crazy and original list for sure and would be fun to play but practically I'm not convinced it will perform.

I never see warbosses and painboys at tournaments. Why? because I never see ork players at tournaments. A regular ork list is doomed. If you do win with a regular ork list then you got a great casual tournament but it's not close to a competitive setting.


Yes' this list also got weaknesses, for example: Indirect fire could really do a number on me. But if you really know how to place your models you can make the enemies shooting useless.

Thanks for addressing my points. The Waaagh! Ghaz being able to use CADs isn't up for debate, only a detachment presented in the supplement can be a Waaagh! Ghaz detachment, the CAD and Allied Detachment aren't presented in the book sadly. So that means either no ObSec Grots or it means moving about the relics on to the Bossboyz HQs instead of where they currently are in the CAD. Outflank and Acute Senses is the only real reason to take the formation but utilising that on Grots that aren't ObSec seems a waste, if your opponent wants that unit off an objective they're gone. It's still only four PKs but i did miscount them, they're also all in one unit (the only unit capable of doing much) and are easily avoided, most armies can also put out enough mobile or indirect firepower to at least partially mitigate the placement of your key characters - though of course effective placement of those HQs will still give you a measure of survivability. It's a decent amount of ID in the unit too, but it's all in one big slow unit so anything afraid of AP4 Initiative 3 ID will be mobile enough to avoid it i suspect. If you're using Ghaz for Eternal Warrior you should probably just use a Warboss in MA with Da Supa Cybork instead because it's cheaper and you only lose a wound. It's far more efficient to just stick a non-EW character in a unit of Boyz for Look Out Sir though. Barkstar, so called, is filled with characters with more utility that an Ork can dream of and can also move upwards of 12" a turn and soak firepower from any angle as well as having superior psyker support.

What I'm getting at is that Orks don't really do deathstars well at all, with the mediocre exception of the Council of Waaagh! and a Zhadsnark bikerstar. We definitely don't do foot slogging deathstars well in my experience. I think Orks are far better off with highly mobile MSU and disposability, it won't be winning many tournaments but it usually performs okay if things are less competitive.

However I would like to say that your interesting list has given me a few things to think about and is certainly not without merit! I'm going to try and come up with my own take on it soon and see how it turns out - a lot of fun I expect and may throw a bit of a curve ball at my opponents because of it's unusual nature.

As for how to deal with dreadknights/wraithknights, there's really no good way to kill them without spending more points that the model is worth, so one of the better ways to deal with them is just tarpitting them.

xlDuke wrote:
However I would like to say that your interesting list has given me a few things to think about and is certainly not without merit! I'm going to try and come up with my own take on it soon and see how it turns out - a lot of fun I expect and may throw a bit of a curve ball at my opponents because of it's unusual nature.

This list is made with a tournament format that only allowed max 4 detachments/formations. So if I could go battle forged without limits then I would also leave ghazkull at home, and shuffle some things around.

It is a weird curve ball because opponents underestimate the lucky stikk in combination with a reroll 2+ armor and 5+ feel no pain. All non - ap 2 shooting are almost useless against this bigboy.

I once got 3x gate and teleported 3 times until I got the right 'scatter' towards the enemy line. Also once teleported towards the enemy, placed 2 weirdboys at the outside of the bubble near the enemy, cast 2 vortrex blasts, and teleport away.

You need an anti-meta list to win tourneys. I'm pretty successful with bully boyz in trukks protected by vsg.

I saw an ork list win a highlander tournament recently. Main core of the army was zhardsnark (that FW bike character), and a biker boss with da lucky stick leading 15 warbikes.

Warbikes and mek guns seem to crop up in a some of the more successful lists I've see.

I've seen some people run that cheaper forgeworld stompa as well.

If you like running the Shokk Attack Gun invest a few points in Ammo Runtz to make sure he hits better. I've had that model be an absolute all-star, I've also had him die turn 1 when he ported himself into a squad of Terminators and another where he ported into a Vindicator, rolled lucky sixes and wrecked it! Dreadknights are just tough customers for Orks, best solutions seem like Mek Gunz and hidden PKlaws. No guarantees on either unfortunately, that model is way undercosted for how hard to kill it can be.

The core of lists I have heard do well;
-Take a cheap Stompa, protect it well
-Take Zhardsnark, spam bikes, drive to objectives
-Spam tons of cheap 1W Ork boyz, run to objectives
-Great Waaagh-Band with Trukkz and Koptas, run to objectives
-Some combination of Bully Boyz and trukks

Our dakka just isn't good enough, more MSU or more Orkz seems to be the solution. Your Bikes and the Mega Armor might serve you well if you maximize that in your army. The other stuff is for fun.