Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm just curious to see what my fellow guard players (and their opponents) think the new edition will do to the largest army in the IoM. Over all, are the guards winners or losers with the coming of these new rules. Changing tank rules kind of makes the LRBT stronger, while the abiltiy to fall back from CC certainly is a plus. And it sounds like the humble lasgun will be upgraded by default. But will ordnance weapons still be effective? How will the loss of the flamer template reflect on anti-mob units?

Its still too early to tell until we have exact unit profiles and rough prices.

The core changes seem fairly decent for the guard with the way moving and heavy weapons works and falling out of combat, but I'm not gonna get too excited until I see a Russ profile with point costs.

So far, all the changes give me an impression that guard will be more fun to play, especially with things like the new Leadership rule. Moving buckets of troops forwards then having to move them back as they retreat is not fun haha. Taking figures off because they "run away" is a lot less combersom and quicker and still makes sense.
The other changes also seem to feel good for them, though only time will tell.
I play a Death Korps army, so it'd be interesting to see how their rules are changed or whether it's worth just using normal guard rules for them

It can only get better for Guard because of how low they already are. Being able to retreat out of CC alone makes 8th better for G
Guard.

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
It can only get better for Guard because of how low they already are. Being able to retreat out of CC alone makes 8th better for G
Guard.

I really like the idea of implementing firing lines, like they mentioned in the example when they spoke about CC, having the front lines retreat behind the second, who then shoot the assaulting units. Very cool in my head narratively and tactically. Though Death Korps are hardly known to run so I can see a lot of my melees going similarly to the old rules anyway haha

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 Otto von Bludd wrote:
It can only get better for Guard because of how low they already are. Being able to retreat out of CC alone makes 8th better for G
Guard.

I really like the idea of implementing firing lines, like they mentioned in the example when they spoke about CC, having the front lines retreat behind the second, who then shoot the assaulting units. Very cool in my head narratively and tactically. Though Death Korps are hardly known to run so I can see a lot of my melees going similarly to the old rules anyway haha

Tactical retreat is not running.

Seems like it'll be good for the guard, at least compared to 7th.

No way to tell at the moment. While vehicles in general are buffed, there's still a chance that the vehicles Guards have can either be overcosted, have useless rules, have poor stats compared to other vehicles of the same type, or some combination of the three. Same goes for the guard infantry; just because they can theoretically harm everything now doesn't necessarily mean they're effective. 3rd ed Necrons could theoretically harm everything but 5th edition buff to vehicles made them a joke until the 5th ed codex for them rolled around.

Obviously good.

1. AP removed from weapons that could shred guard completely.

2. Templates are gone, meaning flamers won't toast all of your units immediately.

3. Fall back out of charge, so you can shoot those charging units that killed all but 2 of your guardmen, and are locked in combat.

4. Anything can hurt anything, so your army of little guys can wound wraithknights, land raiders, pick anything, they can wound it.

I'm shocked this is not 100% "good," if there was a great option that would have been my vote.

Some things look to be getting better, but so many IG issues are codex related that we'll have to see how those pan out. Corw rules changes arent going to Ogryns better for example, their faults were codex specific. The specifics of how many template and blast weapons turn out will be a huge issue as well.

If the Leman Russ tank gets either multiple shots [as the flamer did], multiple wounds, or both, it will be a glorious day to play Armoured Battlegroup, unless they decide to really screw with the points cost.

Even if the Battle Cannon doesn't get buffed, there's still the Vanquisher and Annihilator, and we know Lascannons will be doing D6 wounds, and I can't see the Vanquisher gun not at least getting that too.

Otherwise, it does look like we're going to see some improvement, but being charged out of transports is going to hurt.

Given what we've seen so far I'd say that it's an improvement. While we still have to wait on the Guard specific rules, the new rules to the shooting phase and fallback are a boon in and of themselves.

Might give me a reason to not blob up my men now that they can fall back in a defense in depth. Also the flat -1 to BS to shoot on the move for heavy weapons gives greater value to the Heavy Bolter in regular Infantry Squads.

I hope the Leman Russ can fire its ordnance weapons on the move with a similar penalty, as well. That'd be badass.

I am unsure at them moment. As others have said, the ability to fall back out of combat and shoot the unit that charged you, and to actually be able to put the hurt on the bigger things that you never used to be able to scratch.
On the other side we have no idea what the stats for IG units are going to be like, and there have been some rumours that we are going to lose our basic armour saves outright. Also, other armies are going to be able to hurt our vehicles with every weapon as well..

So, in other words we will have to wait and see what happens.

What rumours regarding losing the flak armor? I've only seen 1 user repeat it a few times to justify low AP values.

On the contrary, MoO, I feel considerably more optimistic about our vehicles. Leman Russes I would imagine will translate to T 8, and there will likely be a good armor save to boot, 2+ or 3+. Combining an actual save with a high wound count means I think they'll be very tough to put fully out of commission. The damage tables will hurt, sure, but it's better than dealing with lucky Explodes! results.

I personally think that rumors of guardsmen losing their armor save is pure BS, especially when you consider Ork Boyz and little Tyranids that have even worse armor. The new AP system is supposed to help more units actually get their saves than with the all-or-nothing of previous editions. Why introduce such an improved mechanic only to prevent numerous common troops from benefiting?




Also crossing my fingers that Rough Riders get increased W and a good Move stat. Hopefully they'll be more like those from the FW DKoK book. If 8th can fix (or even marginally improve) them, 8th can fix anything.

 Nosferatu71 wrote:
Given what we've seen so far I'd say that it's an improvement. While we still have to wait on the Guard specific rules, the new rules to the shooting phase and fallback are a boon in and of themselves.

Might give me a reason to not blob up my men now that they can fall back in a defense in depth. Also the flat -1 to BS to shoot on the move for heavy weapons gives greater value to the Heavy Bolter in regular Infantry Squads.

Im thinking about investing in movement trays myself for blob guard! But I can definitely see the value in making fire lines since you will likely be taking wounds out of wherever so it would just mean my line will shrink instead of having gaping holes in it.