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So after rereading a bunch of the books, I had an idea. After Only in Death, we assume that the Ghosts started hallucinating because of Soric's psyker influence. We also assume that Larkin's hallucination of Bragg was much the same. We, however, know that the scope does not lie. As evidenced in Ghostmaker, the scope was able to see the truth behind the Eldar's psychic veil, who we know to be feth ton levels of overpowered when it comes to psychic abilities. Furthermore, they were REALLY close to Larkin while influencing him, and there were a bunch of them. We know that Soric was a beta level psyker, but even assuming that he's stronger than the average Eldar, over long distances and when compared to a group of them, there is no contest really.

So did the scope lie?

Not nessasarly..

The Eldar psy is diffrent from Human psy..

The fact that soric was human and his 'closeness' to the Ghost may of given him greater capability to influence the Ghosts

It was also a diffrent level of psy manipulation

There's also the matter of an Eldar not being aware of Larkin's fixation on 'the scope doesn't lie'. Someone more familiar with the Ghosts might be innately more aware of individual personal quirks like that.

I always did hate how Soric got such a raw deal in the aftermath of Sabbat Matyr.

I don't exactly remember Larkin telling Soric of "the scope doesn't lie". If Soric heard of it from a different source, so say gossip, he'd write it off as sniper superstition. Also we only saw Bragg through the scope, not Cuu or anyone else, but Bragg. Thr final scene of Only in Death also hints towards the dam being more than just psy gak, where she returns to "haunt the hallways once more".

I also don't remember anything saying that Eldar psy gak is different from Human psy, just that Eldar are brokenly op when compared to human psykers.

Zurthian wrote:
I don't exactly remember Larkin telling Soric of "the scope doesn't lie". If Soric heard of it from a different source, so say gossip, he'd write it off as sniper superstition. Also we only saw Bragg through the scope, not Cuu or anyone else, but Bragg. Thr final scene of Only in Death also hints towards the dam being more than just psy gak, where she returns to "haunt the hallways once more".

I also don't remember anything saying that Eldar psy gak is different from Human psy, just that Eldar are brokenly op when compared to human psykers.

There is nothing directly in the books, but Larkin is one of the core troopers (as was Soric) generally his quirks would be well known.

And once again an Eldar Mind is different to a human mind, so one could presume that their psy gak would be different without to have to be directly told

GodDamUser wrote:

Zurthian wrote:
I don't exactly remember Larkin telling Soric of "the scope doesn't lie". If Soric heard of it from a different source, so say gossip, he'd write it off as sniper superstition. Also we only saw Bragg through the scope, not Cuu or anyone else, but Bragg. Thr final scene of Only in Death also hints towards the dam being more than just psy gak, where she returns to "haunt the hallways once more".

I also don't remember anything saying that Eldar psy gak is different from Human psy, just that Eldar are brokenly op when compared to human psykers.

There is nothing directly in the books, but Larkin is one of the core troopers (as was Soric) generally his quirks would be well known.

And once again an Eldar Mind is different to a human mind, so one could presume that their psy gak would be different without to have to be directly told

Eldar and human psykers all use the Warp to influence reality. The ONLY difference is indeed the power level (and eldar are exceptionally powerful) and the skill level (same thing). The only thing that separates humans from eldar in a psychic way is Slaneesh's donkey-cave ways where he/she/it/apache/xir/whatever collects the eldars' souls. Through continued and unmonitored psychic use, eldar are particularly susceptible to daemonic influences. That being said, it's obvious that all eldar (since they are a universally psychic race) will receive some sort of training to prevent such things from happening. We also see that not only did the individual "grunts" try to fool the Ghosts, but also the guy that conjured a fething warp storm above their heads. Some immensely powerful psychic influences were at play there, while with Soric, not only was he far away, but I sincerely doubt he could conjure up a warp storm like that (remember that the Eldar's guard, can't remember names, was impressed by the storm, but not too much). Soric also, being a sanctioned psyker, wouldn't have had much experience in the way of deception for as we see his primary strength lies in precognition.

Zurthian wrote:

Eldar and human psykers all use the Warp to influence reality. The ONLY difference is indeed the power level (and eldar are exceptionally powerful) and the skill level (same thing). The only thing that separates humans from eldar in a psychic way is Slaneesh's donkey-cave ways where he/she/it/apache/xir/whatever collects the eldars' souls. Through continued and unmonitored psychic use, eldar are particularly susceptible to daemonic influences. That being said, it's obvious that all eldar (since they are a universally psychic race) will receive some sort of training to prevent such things from happening. We also see that not only did the individual "grunts" try to fool the Ghosts, but also the guy that conjured a fething warp storm above their heads. Some immensely powerful psychic influences were at play there, while with Soric, not only was he far away, but I sincerely doubt he could conjure up a warp storm like that (remember that the Eldar's guard, can't remember names, was impressed by the storm, but not too much). Soric also, being a sanctioned psyker, wouldn't have had much experience in the way of deception for as we see his primary strength lies in precognition.

While they Both use the Warp, So do Orks and Tyranids and any other race that has a psy presence, but they all do not use it the same. It is basically where the similarity ends

And while Soric initially manifested an uncontrolled Precognitive power, there is no real telling what he went through becoming sanctioned, what powers were 'unlocked' to him and how his powers had grown/augmented. In fact we don't need to, as it isn't overly relevant to the story. All we need to know is that he was able to. I do believe your issue here is that you are over thinking the entire thing, as you are not being spoon fed the information

GodDamUser wrote:

Zurthian wrote:

Eldar and human psykers all use the Warp to influence reality. The ONLY difference is indeed the power level (and eldar are exceptionally powerful) and the skill level (same thing). The only thing that separates humans from eldar in a psychic way is Slaneesh's donkey-cave ways where he/she/it/apache/xir/whatever collects the eldars' souls. Through continued and unmonitored psychic use, eldar are particularly susceptible to daemonic influences. That being said, it's obvious that all eldar (since they are a universally psychic race) will receive some sort of training to prevent such things from happening. We also see that not only did the individual "grunts" try to fool the Ghosts, but also the guy that conjured a fething warp storm above their heads. Some immensely powerful psychic influences were at play there, while with Soric, not only was he far away, but I sincerely doubt he could conjure up a warp storm like that (remember that the Eldar's guard, can't remember names, was impressed by the storm, but not too much). Soric also, being a sanctioned psyker, wouldn't have had much experience in the way of deception for as we see his primary strength lies in precognition.

While they Both use the Warp, So do Orks and Tyranids and any other race that has a psy presence, but they all do not use it the same. It is basically where the similarity ends

And while Soric initially manifested an uncontrolled Precognitive power, there is no real telling what he went through becoming sanctioned, what powers were 'unlocked' to him and how his powers had grown/augmented. In fact we don't need to, as it isn't overly relevant to the story. All we need to know is that he was able to. I do believe your issue here is that you are over thinking the entire thing, as you are not being spoon fed the information

>over thinking because ypu are not being spoon fed
But that's what people who don't have all the info do. They think through and develop theories. Given that it's Abnett and not James fething Swallow we can expect good stuff from the last book. Do you think he'll leave important stuff like "The sky was full of stars", the Angel, Milo's fate, the scope, and so on to fan speculation? If he does then my "over thinking" is justified, and if he doesn't then I may get the satisfaction of being right, and if I'm not it'll be interesting to see how far I am from the truth. Telling someone on a discussion thread that he's over thinking is stupid imo - what's the thread for, then?

Well my point is in this particular story it is focused more on the backgrounds of the men and their history, Soric himself while being a former 'Ghost' is purely a plot device.

Personally, I read it what Larkin saw through the scope was the enemy and not any psy trickery

Saying you are overthinking something is perfectly valid when you are trying to over analyse the potential power of a character who we just don't have enough information on (and who was purely plot device)

I have yet to see Abnett employ things whose only purpose is being the plot device. If it turns out to be so, I'd be pretty upset. Also we know Soric's rough powerlevel, so we're not clueless. Not only that, but if we assume that Larkin's fixation on the scope allowed him to pierce the Eldar veil, how do we explain Milo doing the same thing while not having any fixation on the scope.

Zurthian wrote:
I have yet to see Abnett employ things whose only purpose is being the plot device. If it turns out to be so, I'd be pretty upset.

Soric's entire purpose within stories was plot device.. While having a spot as a 'core' member he was one of the lease developed and always just a plot device

Zurthian wrote:
Also we know Soric's rough powerlevel, so we're not clueless.

We know how first power manifested which he had no control over that is all that isn't really any indication of power level

Zurthian wrote:
Not only that, but if we assume that Larkin's fixation on the scope allowed him to pierce the Eldar veil, how do we explain Milo doing the same thing while not having any fixation on the scope.

There is a good chance that there is nothing mystical at all with the scope.. It may well be the technology.. As it isn't just a simple magnification scope, it also has infrared and night vision within it.. So the digital display within it shows what is actually there not the illusion being portrayed into the minds of the men

I seriously doubt that last comment. Psy gak isn't a physical manifestation, it screws with the head. So one would think that looking through the scope would have no effect on what you see, since your brain is being told "this is a human", so through the scope it would just be "this is a human, and you're looking at him through a sniper scope".

Other than that, Soric is too dear for me to accept him being merely something to help the heroes along. That being said, my feelings toward the character are irrelevant, and his deus ex machina status is quite likely to be true. Maybe we'll see in Warmaster (write faster Abnett, you fat git).

Zurthian wrote:
(write faster Abnett, you fat git).

He suffered a stroke that is why he let up on his writing

He was diagnosed with epilepsy, although from what I hear, he got over it and put Warhammer on the backburner while working on comics stuff.

Zurthian wrote:
He was diagnosed with epilepsy, although from what I hear, he got over it and put Warhammer on the backburner while working on comics stuff.

He has that too