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I have to consider those units, because I play against them constantly. As I said, Tau are bullies. The start to fall apart against the truly potent builds. It's just that many codices don't have truly potent builds and so can't challenge Tau in a meaningful way.

 Galas wrote:
As a Tau player the worst thing about this article was that they said 0 about Auxiliares. In others articles they mentioned things like Ogryns, Rough Riders, Possessed, etc...

No love to my Vespids

Yep I wanted to see this and was sad I didn't. I'm hoping we get some news on them soon

Sweet Jesus, there's so much salt in this thread! We barely know any of the rules or point costs, much less how everything is going to interact, yet many are already wanting to burn the witch. Personally, I'm very much looking forward to a more balanced game overall, and these rules seem pretty cool.

MilkmanAl wrote:
there's so much salt in this thread! We barely know any of the rules or point costs, much less how everything is going to interact, yet many are already wanting to burn the witch. Personally, I'm very much looking forward to a more balanced game overall, and these rules seem pretty cool.

Do you realize that people say this about practically every OP thing every single edition?

First you say: "We don't even know the points costs of wave serpents."

Then you say "I mean, it looks bad, but we haven't seen it on the table."

And then it goes onto the table, and it's exactly as game breaking as the naysayers expected.

Then the cries change from "It's not as bad as it looks" to "ADAPT, SCRUB!"

But then the edition changes.

And then you say: "We don't even know the points costs of those scatterbikes..."

No. Chances are, it's going to be exactly as bad as it looks.

It has been before. It likely will be again.

Although it's too early to tell in full I really dislike the rules so far.
I had hoped my Tau might be more balanced (they still might) as I didn't want to be the owner of 'one of those' armies, but there are some definitely 'bad' looking rules.

Tau are the second most popular army though (marines are first in terms of sales from what I know).

There are some things to consider though counter to the Tau hate.

The formations (or whatever they're called), it might be the tau army has to have 3-4 firewarrior squads an ethereal etc. leaving only minor options for big suits.
Or it could be the big suits cost like twice as much.

I'll wait to pass full judgement but these kinds of rumours don't bode well.

well i have an old tau forces i was considering bringing back, not now.

I feel like you should collect whatever you want to be honest. I have not come across any hostility to tau and I play nids, so I have had plenty of uphill battles with the likes of tau and eldar. They can still be fun games

 Boniface wrote:
Although it's too early to tell in full I really dislike the rules so far.
I had hoped my Tau might be more balanced (they still might) as I didn't want to be the owner of 'one of those' armies, but there are some definitely 'bad' looking rules.

Tau are the second most popular army though (marines are first in terms of sales from what I know).

There are some things to consider though counter to the Tau hate.

The formations (or whatever they're called), it might be the tau army has to have 3-4 firewarrior squads an ethereal etc. leaving only minor options for big suits.
Or it could be the big suits cost like twice as much.

I'll wait to pass full judgement but these kinds of rumours don't bode well.

where are you getting tau as the second most popular army from, not saying they can't be, just curious. I would have though chaos space marines would be after space marines and the top few armies to be different types of space marines. After that my personal thought would be imperial knights, elder, then orks but again that is just observing my meta not actual statistics.

on the topic though I am hoping it is all balanced and I hope they make tau troops and such as mobile as the fluff suggests they should be, hit and run where mobility is as important as firepower, just points being correctly assigned and maybe give up some shooty for more mobility.

I'm not going to have too much problem with this if it's restricted ie limited to what we've seen. As it stands, getting into combat with Tau has little reward as they can just pull back a blast any assaulted to smithereens in next turn and if they survive, have to endure ridiculous overwatch again.
If Tau shenanigans like supporting fire and interceptor are limited by Strategum Points, thats go a long way to balance.

Eg: supporting fire could be that the assaulted unit and one other unit may overwatch. Every unit beyond that first supporting unit can overwatch at the cost of 1sp per unit.

Interceptor stuff could intercept fire at deepstriking and outflanking units at the cost of 1sp per unit. Makes Tau have to think about what and where to spend as opposed to just spamming overwatch and intercept.

Giantwalkingchair wrote:
I'm not going to have too much problem with this if it's restricted ie limited to what we've seen. As it stands, getting into combat with Tau has little reward as they can just pull back a blast any assaulted to smithereens in next turn and if they survive, have to endure ridiculous overwatch again.
If Tau shenanigans like supporting fire and interceptor are limited by Strategum Points, thats go a long way to balance.

Eg: supporting fire could be that the assaulted unit and one other unit may overwatch. Every unit beyond that first supporting unit can overwatch at the cost of 1sp per unit.

Interceptor stuff could intercept fire at deepstriking and outflanking units at the cost of 1sp per unit. Makes Tau have to think about what and where to spend as opposed to just spamming overwatch and intercept.

I'm not confident supporting fire will be so limited, given that the faction focus page described it as a 'second shooting phase'.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Boniface wrote:
Although it's too early to tell in full I really dislike the rules so far.
I had hoped my Tau might be more balanced (they still might) as I didn't want to be the owner of 'one of those' armies, but there are some definitely 'bad' looking rules.

Tau are the second most popular army though (marines are first in terms of sales from what I know).

There are some things to consider though counter to the Tau hate.

The formations (or whatever they're called), it might be the tau army has to have 3-4 firewarrior squads an ethereal etc. leaving only minor options for big suits.
Or it could be the big suits cost like twice as much.

I'll wait to pass full judgement but these kinds of rumours don't bode well.

where are you getting tau as the second most popular army from, not saying they can't be, just curious. I would have though chaos space marines would be after space marines and the top few armies to be different types of space marines. After that my personal thought would be imperial knights, elder, then orks but again that is just observing my meta not actual statistics.

on the topic though I am hoping it is all balanced and I hope they make tau troops and such as mobile as the fluff suggests they should be, hit and run where mobility is as important as firepower, just points being correctly assigned and maybe give up some shooty for more mobility.

I have no idea. Even I don't think they are that high. Last I heard is overall Tau are 5th most popular just a tiny fraction behind orc players in terms of players owning the armies.

Source is this. The data is getting a little old. The Tau might well be the 4th most owned now since it was such a neck and neck contest with orcs.

http://www.totellstories.com/40k/

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Boniface wrote:
Although it's too early to tell in full I really dislike the rules so far.
I had hoped my Tau might be more balanced (they still might) as I didn't want to be the owner of 'one of those' armies, but there are some definitely 'bad' looking rules.

Tau are the second most popular army though (marines are first in terms of sales from what I know).

There are some things to consider though counter to the Tau hate.

The formations (or whatever they're called), it might be the tau army has to have 3-4 firewarrior squads an ethereal etc. leaving only minor options for big suits.
Or it could be the big suits cost like twice as much.

I'll wait to pass full judgement but these kinds of rumours don't bode well.

where are you getting tau as the second most popular army from, not saying they can't be, just curious. I would have though chaos space marines would be after space marines and the top few armies to be different types of space marines. After that my personal thought would be imperial knights, elder, then orks but again that is just observing my meta not actual statistics.

on the topic though I am hoping it is all balanced and I hope they make tau troops and such as mobile as the fluff suggests they should be, hit and run where mobility is as important as firepower, just points being correctly assigned and maybe give up some shooty for more mobility.

I can't find the information about Tau being the second most popular, maybe I heard it or dreamed it.

Well after my initial rage at the retreating while firing crisis suit thing. Catchwords Tau triggered me. Anyways, after the rage died down, I realised that this is is exactly what I described as wanting "hit and run" rule to operate.
I'm probably wrong, but didn't crisis suits have hit and run in 7th?

Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Well after my initial rage at the retreating while firing crisis suit thing. Catchwords Tau triggered me. Anyways, after the rage died down, I realised that this is is exactly what I described as wanting "hit and run" rule to operate.
I'm probably wrong, but didn't crisis suits have hit and run in 7th?

They could get it with an upgrade (vectored retro thrusters 5pts).

I guess I can't be that mad either, considering my bikes will probably have something similar as well as a jink save modifier that only reduces BS by -1 since snap shots aren't really a thing anymore.

 Luciferian wrote:
I guess I can't be that mad either, considering my bikes will probably have something similar as well as a jink save modifier that only reduces BS by -1 since snap shots aren't really a thing anymore.

Truthfully, Bikes never should have been made into the gun platforms they've become.

In any regards, saying it again:
I really think this is another example of this particular article writer not expressing himself well. It seems strange that "Fly" gets mentioned as doing this amazing thing for Crisis Suits...but no mention of it doing the same for Sniper Drones.

Boniface wrote:
I can't find the information about Tau being the second most popular, maybe I heard it or dreamed it.

A GW employee said something similar to me once. Something about the Tau being the most popular xenos army, or something to that effect. He emphasized that that was the impression he got selling them locally, and not backed up by official numbers from corporate or anything.

Iirc, it was back when the ghostkeel launched and I commented on the year on the sprue.

Giantwalkingchair wrote:Well after my initial rage at the retreating while firing crisis suit thing. Catchwords Tau triggered me. Anyways, after the rage died down, I realised that this is is exactly what I described as wanting "hit and run" rule to operate.
I'm probably wrong, but didn't crisis suits have hit and run in 7th?

Not base, but it is a support system you can equip them with.

Generally speaking, split fire and that were my top picks for support systems, so I wonder what they're going to do.

I realised the 10 weapons thing on the storm surge is cool and all but it kinda already does it, big gun, SMS, missiles left, missiles right, flamers, 4 missiles (maybe 1 use).

 TheLumberJack wrote:

 Galas wrote:
As a Tau player the worst thing about this article was that they said 0 about Auxiliares. In others articles they mentioned things like Ogryns, Rough Riders, Possessed, etc...

No love to my Vespids

Yep I wanted to see this and was sad I didn't. I'm hoping we get some news on them soon

What a shock that the tournament heavy writers of the articles don't touch on things that don't touch tables in tournaments.

The only thing said about Ogryns and Rough Riders was effectively "wouldn't it be great if they didn't suck?".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Boniface wrote:
I realised the 10 weapons thing on the storm surge is cool and all but it kinda already does it, big gun, SMS, missiles left, missiles right, flamers, 4 missiles (maybe 1 use).

It's the fact that they've gone from twin-linked to individual systems for most.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I really think this is another example of this particular article writer not expressing himself well. It seems strange that "Fly" gets mentioned as doing this amazing thing for Crisis Suits...but no mention of it doing the same for Sniper Drones.

Yeah, frankly the only thing those units had in common before was that they were both jetpack infantry. If that's what confers 'Fly' you're going to see it everywhere, including stealth suits, drones, and units from other armies (maybe even jump pack infantry as well.)

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I really think this is another example of this particular article writer not expressing himself well. It seems strange that "Fly" gets mentioned as doing this amazing thing for Crisis Suits...but no mention of it doing the same for Sniper Drones.

Yeah, frankly the only thing those units had in common before was that they were both jetpack infantry. If that's what confers 'Fly' you're going to see it everywhere, including stealth suits, drones, and units from other armies (maybe even jump pack infantry as well.)

Yup.

It's why I think that it is tied to an actual rule on the Crisis Suits, like the "Walking Battleship" rule for the Stormsurge.

 Robin5t wrote:

Giantwalkingchair wrote:
I'm not going to have too much problem with this if it's restricted ie limited to what we've seen. As it stands, getting into combat with Tau has little reward as they can just pull back a blast any assaulted to smithereens in next turn and if they survive, have to endure ridiculous overwatch again.
If Tau shenanigans like supporting fire and interceptor are limited by Strategum Points, thats go a long way to balance.

Eg: supporting fire could be that the assaulted unit and one other unit may overwatch. Every unit beyond that first supporting unit can overwatch at the cost of 1sp per unit.

Interceptor stuff could intercept fire at deepstriking and outflanking units at the cost of 1sp per unit. Makes Tau have to think about what and where to spend as opposed to just spamming overwatch and intercept.

I'm not confident supporting fire will be so limited, given that the faction focus page described it as a 'second shooting phase'.

Let me dream...

Ohhhh I see, so the "blood for the blood god" rule us going to be a second assault phase against units trying to retreat

Oh, and did I forget to mention they have the Fly keyword? This allows them to Fall Back from combat and still shoot at full effect.

So where are all those people saying that Fall Back is still a penalty to shooting armies? Because I'd like to share a few keywords of my own to them

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

Oh, and did I forget to mention they have the Fly keyword? This allows them to Fall Back from combat and still shoot at full effect.

So where are all those people saying that Fall Back is still a penalty to shooting armies? Because I'd like to share a few keywords of my own to them

It is still a penalty to shooting armies. Just not T'au

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

Oh, and did I forget to mention they have the Fly keyword? This allows them to Fall Back from combat and still shoot at full effect.

So where are all those people saying that Fall Back is still a penalty to shooting armies? Because I'd like to share a few keywords of my own to them

What was the shooting penalty again?

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

Oh, and did I forget to mention they have the Fly keyword? This allows them to Fall Back from combat and still shoot at full effect.

So where are all those people saying that Fall Back is still a penalty to shooting armies? Because I'd like to share a few keywords of my own to them

Oh, it certainly will be... for fairer armies like IG. The article has only discussed/hinted at buffs for Tau. They didn't say anything like "Oh yeah, 2++ rerollable was pretty bad after all, so we're going to scrap some stuff before making new stuff." Tau Focus was not that at all. Tau Focus was "Yep, Tau were pretty strong. Anyways, we're giving Tau these powerful new abilities, too! Isn't it beautiful?!?1?" They didn't even say anything like "Tau can shoot after falling back, but at BS 1/with penalty to BS." On units with many weapons more than they had previously. And they're certainly not the only units in the army who will invalidate the disadvantage to falling back.

Oh GW, I do wonder if Tau are still going to be the best at shooting. I really do wonder. I had confidence up till now that 8th would be a great deal more balanced than 7th. Now my confidence has been severely shaken.

Giantwalkingchair wrote:Ohhhh I see, so the "blood for the blood god" rule us going to be a second assault phase against units trying to retreat

Sounds good to me. Fluffy and gives Khorne Berserkers something unique and nasty.

Luke_Prowler wrote:So where are all those people saying that Fall Back is still a penalty to shooting armies? Because I'd like to share a few keywords of my own to them

 Luciferian wrote:

It is still a penalty to shooting armies. Just not T'au

To reiterate: if it's Fly that allows you to shoot without penalty after falling back then it's going to be spread a lot wider than just crisis suits, and since it's called 'fly' and not 'vectored retro-thrusters' it's a safe bet it's not going to be limited to Tau.

Crisis suits are big expensive special weapons platforms. If you're scared you should be scared of a drone blob being able to do this.

Well I suppose cross your fingers that when the Tau armies start wiping the field out, they'll release their 'general handbook' mk2 and nerf them a bit.
I mean until we get all of the rules plus all the army rules we cant really make any final decisions on balance.
I am happy to wait out and see what happens, my nids can't go anywhere but up...hopefully

I bet Dark Eldar will have lots of fly.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

Oh, and did I forget to mention they have the Fly keyword? This allows them to Fall Back from combat and still shoot at full effect.

So where are all those people saying that Fall Back is still a penalty to shooting armies? Because I'd like to share a few keywords of my own to them

Probably in the same place where all those people saying that shooting will wipe the board.

Seriously. I'm going to say it again and again and again I think, but:

We're not getting the full picture here. Literally NO mention of the same benefit for the Sniper Drones who have the "Fly" keyword. No mention of it when "Fly" has been mentioned elsewhere either. This is not a great article as it goes from being hyperdetailed(the "Walking Battleship" bit for the Stormsurge is exceedingly detailed, for example) to vague.

The bit about Crisis Suits is very likely a rule tied to Crisis Suits, not every single Tau/Guard/whatever army models.
And quite frankly?

If you charge the Crisis Suits with the appropriate unit to begin with, you're likely going to kill one or two suits.
If they Fall Back?
They're still taking a Morale test, which can potentially remove another Crisis Suit.