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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/17/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-drukhari-may17/

Well the Dark lance was kinda predictable (was wondering what the "lance" rule would change to though)
Disintegrators being damage 2 is cool
Wyches being capable of locking enemy units in is awesome (because otherwise they were toast)
Incubi changes- eh, they were already good, it was the lack of grenades that was their issue so the "chargers strike first" from the combat rules was all they really needed
And Ravagers being able to go full speed and fire at full effect is great.

I bet the lance rule is gone now. Dark Lance is basically a Lascannon now but 1 point worst in strength and 1 point better in AP. Was hoping for something different...but meh

The no escape rule is interesting. I wonder if anybody else gets that. I hope dark eldar work out. I almost started a dark eldar army when they got their revamp, but I wasn't in a hurry and then they got their other codex and it turned out to me kinda meh.

Tautastic wrote:
I bet the lance rule is gone now. Dark Lance is basically a Lascannon now but 1 point worst in strength and 1 point better in AP. Was hoping for something different...but meh

Oh, I'd totally spaced on that.
That extra minus will be helpful to keep vehicles from getting those lucky on their armour saves

 Roknar wrote:
The no escape rule is interesting. I wonder if anybody else gets that. I hope dark eldar work out. I almost started a dark eldar army when they got their revamp, but I wasn't in a hurry and then they got their other codex and it turned out to me kinda meh.

I wonder if the shardnet and impaler weapon option will improve the wyches chances of keeping their opponents locked in combat...

You can even fire Pistol weapons out of the vehicle when it is engaged in close combat!

Iiiiiinteresting.

Another "GEE WHIZBANG ITS GONNA BE GREAT!" Marketing piece.

"yeah posion is totally fixed now because of the always wound on 6 rule! Its like totally fixed the army and stuff! All I have to say is wow you are gonna say wow!"

Do you think close combat will be better you DE this time ?
I haven't seen much changes about how to come close in this Faction Focus.

DE got a fair bit worse in CC, not better. Wych Dodge saves still only apply in the Fight sub-phase, and pistols can be fired in the Shooting phase while locked in combat.
Space Marines universally carry Bolt Pistols.
Being shot at by 3+ BS, 3+ to wound, 6+ save is a lot worse than being shot at by 3+ BS, 4+ to wound, 3+ save.

Wyches, despite all the huff about "top 3 most improved units!" still have no place except your display shelf.

Maybe they didn't tell us every thing they improved about them ?
Because yes, it seemed a bit light as an improvement when I read the Faction Focus

I love the rules for Dark (and probably Bright) lances. An additional -1 to AP over the Lascannon does a pretty good job of representing the additional punch without needing yet another "keyword rule"
That D6 damage is going to go a long way toward making DE relevant again.

I don't think the Wychs' No Escape rule is as good as GW thinks though. There isn't a way to predict the probability of a 'roll-off". The DE player has just as much chance to roll low as the opponent has to roll high. It is hardly a rule that they can rely on.
And their Dodge save looks like they still don't get it for Overwatch, so Wyches are still garbage.

-

 godardc wrote:
Maybe they didn't tell us every thing they improved about them ?
Because yes, it seemed a bit light as an improvement when I read the Faction Focus

It feels that way because the changes ARE minimal. It's the whole "we got rid of usr's becaus they suck! Check out this cool UNITY ABILITY that lets you GET +1 str when you charge!"

They arent really changing anything. They are just renaming a bunch of stuff and "getting rid of rules"

Oh and the The witch "improvments"? Hillarious!

mynamelegend wrote:
DE got a fair bit worse in CC, not better. Wych Dodge saves still only apply in the Fight sub-phase, and pistols can be fired in the Shooting phase while locked in combat.
Space Marines universally carry Bolt Pistols.
Being shot at by 3+ BS, 3+ to wound, 6+ save is a lot worse than being shot at by 3+ BS, 4+ to wound, 3+ save.

Wyches, despite all the huff about "top 3 most improved units!" still have no place except your display shelf.

Oh, so you've seen their statline and the rest of their special rules and their weapon profiles?

What are you waiting for, man, post them!

Pancakey wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Maybe they didn't tell us every thing they improved about them ?
Because yes, it seemed a bit light as an improvement when I read the Faction Focus

It feels that way because the changes ARE minimal. Its the whole "we got rid of usr's becaus they suck! Check out this cool UNITY ABILITY that lets you GET +1 str when you charge!"

They arent really changing anything. They are just renaming a bunch of stuff and "getting rid of rules"

Though I wonder how well the Wyches weapons are going to be this time around.. Before it was mostly pointless.

The changes are excellent. Incubi sound good (though I'm maybe one of the only people that defended them as a unit, but oh well), but more importantly Wyches gained an actual niche outside of people wanting them to be a grenade delivery system again.

the_scotsman wrote:

mynamelegend wrote:
DE got a fair bit worse in CC, not better. Wych Dodge saves still only apply in the Fight sub-phase, and pistols can be fired in the Shooting phase while locked in combat.
Space Marines universally carry Bolt Pistols.
Being shot at by 3+ BS, 3+ to wound, 6+ save is a lot worse than being shot at by 3+ BS, 4+ to wound, 3+ save.

Wyches, despite all the huff about "top 3 most improved units!" still have no place except your display shelf.

Oh, so you've seen their statline and the rest of their special rules and their weapon profiles?

What are you waiting for, man, post them!

Do you play dark eldar?

 Galef wrote:
I love the rules for Dark (and probably Bright) lances. An additional -1 to AP over the Lascannon does a pretty good job of representing the additional punch without needing yet another "keyword rule"
That D6 damage is going to go a long way toward making DE relevant again.

I don't think the Wychs' No Escape rule is as good as GW thinks though. There isn't a way to predict the probability of a 'roll-off". The DE player has just as much chance to roll low as the opponent has to roll high. It is hardly a rule that they can rely on.
And their Dodge save looks like they still don't get it for Overwatch, so Wyches are still garbage.

-

I'm pretty sure there is a way to predict the probability of a roll off. You use 2 die probability - each person has a 5/12 chance of winning the roll off, and there is a 1/6 chance of a tie (6/36, the odds of rolling doubles on 2 dice). Since the retreater needs to WIN to run, that gives you a 58% probability of keeping an opponent in close combat.

There, I predicted the probability for you.

I'm obviously in the minority here, but I can foresee myself adding DE to my collection now. I think they got some solid buffs. Wyches may (at first glance) still be a bit horrible, but their shooting has improved, and their vehicles have almost certainly improved. They were always a solid shooting army, and this looks to have definitely confirmed that, especially for their vehicles - well, the Ravager anyway.

Pancakey wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

mynamelegend wrote:
DE got a fair bit worse in CC, not better. Wych Dodge saves still only apply in the Fight sub-phase, and pistols can be fired in the Shooting phase while locked in combat.
Space Marines universally carry Bolt Pistols.
Being shot at by 3+ BS, 3+ to wound, 6+ save is a lot worse than being shot at by 3+ BS, 4+ to wound, 3+ save.

Wyches, despite all the huff about "top 3 most improved units!" still have no place except your display shelf.

Oh, so you've seen their statline and the rest of their special rules and their weapon profiles?

What are you waiting for, man, post them!

Do you play dark eldar?

I own the seventh edition codex. I'm assuming if this guy is saying wyches are still terrible, he's got ahold of the 8th edition rules for them.

So what are their move values? Do they have any new special rules? What else do their special weapons do besides -1AP? Did their points costs change? How about the Hekatrix, did she change? Bloodbrides? Any other stat changes?

I'm on the edge of my seat here, we've got an insider perspective!

So maybe its the pistol shots in close combat that make witches good?

Dark eldar best new rules are...

-alway wound on 6
-pistols in combat
-d6 wounds with -4 rend
- +1 str on charge
- open topped
- invlunerable save on vehicle

Are there any rules made specifically for the dark eldar? Where are the combat drugs! Do we get something to make up for lack of psychic powers yet?

Another opportunity lost.

the_scotsman wrote:

I'm pretty sure there is a way to predict the probability of a roll off. You use 2 die probability - each person has a 2/6 chance of winning the roll off, and there is a 1/6 chance of a tie (6/36, the odds of rolling doubles on 2 dice). Since the retreater needs to WIN to run, that gives you a 66% probability of keeping an opponent in close combat.

There, I predicted the probability for you.

I meant it isn't as reliable to predict as a simple 4+ (50%) as you have to account for both dice separately and how they compare to each other. However, you do bring up an interesting point about the opponent having to beat the roll. That makes a significant different.
I'm still skeptical though. it will depend on points cost and other options. I was hoping all Wyches would get AP -1, but it appears you only get a limited amount of those weapons.

-

 Galef wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

I'm pretty sure there is a way to predict the probability of a roll off. You use 2 die probability - each person has a 2/6 chance of winning the roll off, and there is a 1/6 chance of a tie (6/36, the odds of rolling doubles on 2 dice). Since the retreater needs to WIN to run, that gives you a 66% probability of keeping an opponent in close combat.

There, I predicted the probability for you.

I meant it isn't as reliable to predict as a simple 4+ (50%) as you have to account for both dice separately and how they compare to each other. However, you do bring up an interesting point about the opponent having to beat the roll. That makes a significant different.
I'm still skeptical though. it will depend on points cost and other options. I was hoping all Wyches would get AP -1, but it appears you only get a limited amount of those weapons.

-

It's...exactly the same as predicting the probability of one person rolling dice. Take a 2-dice probability table, and call the two dice "Die A" and "Die B". On every possibility of doubles, there's a tie, and on every possibility of Die A being higher than Die B, Die A wins, and vice versa. If there is not any way to modify the roll at all, then it is indeed a flat 58% chance of keeping any enemy in melee.

Pancakey wrote:
So maybe its the pistol shots in close combat that make witches good?

Dark eldar best new rules are...

-alway wound on 6
-pistols in combat
-d6 wounds with -4 rend
- +1 str on charge
- open topped
- invlunerable save on vehicle

Are there any rules made specifically for the dark eldar? Where are the combat drugs! Do we get something to make up for lack of psychic powers yet?

Another opportunity lost.

Right? I mean, every other faction focus article had all the rules released to us in their articles... oh wait...

the_scotsman wrote:

It's...exactly the same as predicting the probability of one person rolling dice. Take a 2-dice probability table, and call the two dice "Die A" and "Die B". On every possibility of doubles, there's a tie, and on every possibility of Die A being higher than Die B, Die A wins, and vice versa. If there is not any way to modify the roll at all, then it is indeed a flat 58% chance of keeping any enemy in melee.

Clearly, I am not explaining what I mean. If I need a 4+ to succeed, that's an easy 50% to calculate. However, If I need to get a 4+ while at the same time the opponent doesn't roll a 5+, I have to calcultate that additional 34% chance of them rolling 5+. It's not difficult, but it adds layers of variation that make it harder to base sound tactical decision on.

-

Going to be honest, I still don't see how Wyches are going to make it into combat with more than three models between the shooting phase and overwatch, especially as they've now become a priority target for anyone who doesn't want their battlesuits tied up in combat.

 Galef wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

I'm pretty sure there is a way to predict the probability of a roll off. You use 2 die probability - each person has a 2/6 chance of winning the roll off, and there is a 1/6 chance of a tie (6/36, the odds of rolling doubles on 2 dice). Since the retreater needs to WIN to run, that gives you a 66% probability of keeping an opponent in close combat.

There, I predicted the probability for you.

I meant it isn't as reliable to predict as a simple 4+ (50%) as you have to account for both dice separately and how they compare to each other. However, you do bring up an interesting point about the opponent having to beat the roll. That makes a significant different.
I'm still skeptical though. it will depend on points cost and other options. I was hoping all Wyches would get AP -1, but it appears you only get a limited amount of those weapons.

-

Did they post the actual run, or just describe what it did? If the latter, the Wyches may get a bonus to the roll that wasn't described in the article.

None of the faction focuses are worth reading.

The information is too little, it's a tiny scrap of one or two unit entries without knowing any of the rest of the unit rules, if the army has special rules, or how any of those interact with the core rules of 8th.

It's like seeing a post it notes through the window of a high rise building and assuming how well that business stock price is based on that.

 EnTyme wrote:

 Galef wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

I'm pretty sure there is a way to predict the probability of a roll off. You use 2 die probability - each person has a 2/6 chance of winning the roll off, and there is a 1/6 chance of a tie (6/36, the odds of rolling doubles on 2 dice). Since the retreater needs to WIN to run, that gives you a 66% probability of keeping an opponent in close combat.

There, I predicted the probability for you.

I meant it isn't as reliable to predict as a simple 4+ (50%) as you have to account for both dice separately and how they compare to each other. However, you do bring up an interesting point about the opponent having to beat the roll. That makes a significant different.
I'm still skeptical though. it will depend on points cost and other options. I was hoping all Wyches would get AP -1, but it appears you only get a limited amount of those weapons.

-

Did they post the actual run, or just describe what it did? If the latter, the Wyches may get a bonus to the roll that wasn't described in the article.

They posted the exact text of the rules. If an opponent wants to fall back, they must win a roll off vs the wych player first.

They may have some kind of gear or upgrade that helps the roll (Bloodbrides upgrade or Shardnet spring to mind) but we don't know that. We do know that the base rule in its entirety is "win a roll off if you want to leave."

When you roll 2 dice, there are 36 possible combinations of numbers.

6/36 are doubles - in a roll off, doubles are always ties.
15/36, Die A beats Die B
15/36, Die B beats Die A.

If the Wyches are Die A, then they get the result they want if they win, or if there's a tie. 15/36+6/36 = 21/36, or a 58.333% chance.

The odds of any roll-off of single D6s can be calculated by looking at a 2 die odds chart.

Sharnet would be great if it added +1 to the roll off. That's what it's designed to do anyway: trap the enemy.

I still think that they fixed the wrong things. Even if Raiders can move 12", allow passengers to disembark and Wyches move 8+ inches, they still can't get through enemy Overwatch, which is worse now that A) twin-linked is twice the shots and B) since everyone gets unlimited overwatch, you can't use expendable unit to absorb it.

-

Hmm, well they at least get there 6+ against most basic ranged weapons now. I guess that helps. Also might still get version of power from pain/combat drugs for some sort of survival boost.

Or maybe Wyches are just dirt cheap assault units meant to tie up high value targets in melee without letting them escape this edition. It makes sense given their rules.