Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/06/25 14:28:59
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
ross-128 wrote: Honestly, I'm still excited about saber weapon batteries and their searchlights of doom. Oh, plasma Scions/Elysians? Have fun hitting on 2, re-rolling 1, and being 100% immune to overheating. What's that? I have a hydra battery? Well guess I can hit subsonic flyers on 2, supersonic flyers on 3, and everything else on 4. Tank commanders? You're now promoted to Pask Jr. Tanks with co-ax weapons? Now they can hit on 3+ on top of getting that re-roll.
It's just kind of wonderful across the board, the only units where a +1 to hit wouldn't be worth the 20 points might be flamethrowers and Pask (assuming natural 1 always fails, if not, auto-hitting Pask!).
Even conscripts could probably benefit from being able to hit on 4+ now and then. Probably going to try to take plenty of these things, so that I have lots of +1s to pass around.
Have you noticed how the searchlights can only benefit units in the same regiment as the Sabre, and that neither Militarum Tempestus nor Elysian Drop Troops can take Sabres?
2017/06/25 16:10:08
Subject: Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Just did my third game of 8th ed and wanted to share some results of my units.
-Astropaths. Holy gak are these guys worth it for their ridiculous low price. Just the Ignore cover bubble and denying spells alone are they well worth it. I'd say they are pretty much an auto-include unless you are absolutely sure you aren't going against psykers. But even then they are so worth it.
-Snipers: I was on the receiving end of 5 Rangers + a Ranger character (forgot his name). And the pretty much took a Commissar, Astropath or even a Company Commander per turn. Now you could argue that I did not place them out of LOS, but the fact that his snipers could appear on the board after everything was deployed makes this incredibly difficult., especially with some elevated terrain.
Now some would argue that it is a lot of points for sniping characters, but the effect was well worth it. I lost 10 conscripts in a turn and the morale phase killed another 10 of them!
I honestly think that people who will argue 'just daisy-chain them to get out LoS' play with too much or too dense terrain. Doesn't have to be a city-fight esque battle every time guys, just some trees, craters and maybe two small ruins will do just fine as well.
Even with creating massive daisy-chains (which will cost a lot of models to do), snipers seem definitely worth it. Gonna try my two Vindicare Assassins once I've received them by mail.
-Mortar teams are kick-ass. Again low-priced and their sheer amount of firepower will ruin pretty much any light-infantry's day.
-Infantry squads. While everyone has the hots for conscripts, these simple infantry squads with a Plasma gun and a Lascannon work great. Give them some orders and they will do well in pretty much any situation thanks to the 'split-fire' general rule.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/25 16:21:52
2017/06/25 16:45:12
Subject: Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
ross-128 wrote: Honestly, I'm still excited about saber weapon batteries and their searchlights of doom. Oh, plasma Scions/Elysians? Have fun hitting on 2, re-rolling 1, and being 100% immune to overheating. What's that? I have a hydra battery? Well guess I can hit subsonic flyers on 2, supersonic flyers on 3, and everything else on 4. Tank commanders? You're now promoted to Pask Jr. Tanks with co-ax weapons? Now they can hit on 3+ on top of getting that re-roll.
It's just kind of wonderful across the board, the only units where a +1 to hit wouldn't be worth the 20 points might be flamethrowers and Pask (assuming natural 1 always fails, if not, auto-hitting Pask!).
Even conscripts could probably benefit from being able to hit on 4+ now and then. Probably going to try to take plenty of these things, so that I have lots of +1s to pass around.
Have you noticed how the searchlights can only benefit units in the same regiment as the Sabre, and that neither Militarum Tempestus nor Elysian Drop Troops can take Sabres?
Hmm, the main thing I didn't notice was that Elysians couldn't take them. That's pretty unfortunate.
Still, there are quite a lot of things that can benefit from a +1 to hit.
One thing that's kind of funny is that the unit receiving the benefit doesn't have to be in any particular range, and doesn't need LoS to either the Saber or the target. So it can support artillery very well. A group Earthshaker platforms clustered around a Trojan, and supported by searchlights for each platform (since the new squadron rule splits them into separate units, useful on many things, but dubious on a stationary platform) could make a strong fire-support base. Basilisk rounds hitting on 3s with full re-rolls.
Especially since the new Earthshaker/Basilisk has no penalty at all for shooting out of LoS, and has no minimum range for indirect fire. The 28 points you get from turning a Basilisk into an Earthshaker platform even neatly pays for the searchlight (with 8 points left over).
Edit: of course, the searchlights would have to be scattered around the deployment zone so *they* can get LoS on stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/25 16:52:09
2017/06/25 17:28:37
Subject: Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Have you had a chance yet to try out Wyverns? I don't have any Manticores as of yet, but I do have 2 Wyverns. Although I guess I could just proxy them...
TheEyeOfNight- I swear, this thread is 70% smack talk, 20% RP organization, and 10% butt jokes
TheEyeOfNight- "Ordo Xenos reports that the Necrons have attained democracy, kamikaze tendencies, and nuclear fission. It's all tits up, sir."
Space Marine flyers are shaped for the greatest possible air resistance so that the air may never defeat the SPACE MARINES!
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum
2017/06/26 16:54:23
Subject: Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Have you had a chance yet to try out Wyverns? I don't have any Manticores as of yet, but I do have 2 Wyverns. Although I guess I could just proxy them...
Yes, they're still pretty good. They're not as good as they used to be, having been increased in cost and reduced in lethality, but they're definitely pretty decent. Kills a small handful of guys a turn.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2017/06/26 18:32:26
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
My force:
Pask, Battle Tank, Multimeltas, Lascannon
Company Commander
Conscripts
Infantry Squad, Lascannon
Custodian Guard
Commissar
Venerable Contemptor Dreadnought, Kheres Assault Cannon
Punisher, Heavy Bolters, Heavy Bolter
Venerable Land Raider
Shadowsword, Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Enemy Force:
Swarmlord
Tervigon
Termigaunts
Termigaunts
Hormagaunts
Hive Guard
Old One Eye
Toxicrine
Trygon Prime
Melee Carnifex
Melee Carnifex
Melee Carnifex
We were playing The Scouring, and I chose deployment pattern, selecting Hammer and Anvil. He put out all his guys right along the front line, with the Swarmlord and Tervigon right in the middle, flanked by the two Termigaunt Squads, and the Carnifexes anchoring his left, my right, of the line, and his Trygon in reserve and Hormagaunts in its tunnel. I made a line of Conscripts across the front of my deployment zone, with my Shadowsword in the back right corner, my Infantry Squad on a hill towards the rear-left, the Punisher and Dreadnought front and center, 4" behind the conscripts, the Land Raider in front of the Shadowsword, and Pask trailing a safe distance behind the Punisher.
We roll to assign the major and minor objectives, and my home objective ends up the major objective and my forward objective ends up the minor objective.
I spend a CP and successfully seize the imitative from him, netting me first turn.
IG 1: Conscripts move up 6" on the right and center, taking over my natural expansion objective [the one in the no-man's land close to me], but stay back on the left, forming a dogleg in my line. The Punisher and Dreadnought move up into the corner of the conscript line, still staying dutifully 4" behind the Conscripts, and the Land Raider moves up around a rocky outcropping separating my right flank from my center and left. Conscripts shoot a squad of Termigaunts under First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire!. Guardsmen shoot the Swarmlord under Bring it Down!, doing nothing. Punisher shoots the same Termigaunts the Conscripts shot under Gunners, Kill on Sight!. Pask fires on the Swarmlord and gets 5 shots, erasing the Hive Guard and putting a small dent on the big guy himself. The Venerable Land Raider fires its Twin Heavy Bolter at the same Termigaunt squad as the Punisher and the Conscripts, and it's Twin Lascannons at the Swarmlord, reducing the big guy to 2 wounds. I fire the Dreadnought at the Swarmlord, because I want to save the Volcano Cannon for the Tervigon or the 'fexes, but it doesn't manage to strip the last two wounds. At this point, I notice that there's a single Termigaunt left from the squad I had been shooting at that I didn't notice before, hiding underneath the Carnifexes, all I have left if the Shadowsword, and my Heavy Bolters are out of range. I fire my Lascannons at the 'gaunt and the Volcano Cannon at the Swarmlord, killing both with a CP re-roll, and that's the end of my first turn.
Tyranids 1: The unmolested 'gaunt squad scurries back to secure his home and forward objectives, the Tervigon stays near his forward one, and the rest of the army advances at full speed. The Trygon burrows up on the left flank, in the crook of the dogleg, and the Hormagaunts come rushing out of the tunnel. He uses Onslaught on the Toxicrene, allowing it to charge. The Toxicrene charges the Conscripts first right in the center in front of where my Punisher and Dreadnought are, followed by the Trygon into the left of the line and the Hormagaunts right into the dog-leg area, behind where the tank is, packing in 30 things in about 8" of frontline. The Hormagaunts lead, killing off a huge number of guys, but I remove them from the far right flank where the conscripts aren't embattled, then when I reach the Toxicrene, I remove from the far left near the Trygon. It almost kills the Trygon out of combat, but fortunately doesn't, and while it kills itself out of combat and some of the guys near the Hormagaunts, it can't reach the Lascannon team with its consolidation. The Toxicrene goes last, and I can't afford to let it kill itself out of combat because it will reach the tanks if it does so, and it fortunately doesn't. That ends his turn.
IG 2: The dozen surviving Conscripts fall back, forming a thin diagonal line between the outcropping separating the center from the right flank and the Lascannon squad's hill, where the Company Commander and Commissar also are. The tank and Dreadnought fall back to behind the Conscript line. The Land Raider unloads the Custodians and backs up, barricading the path between the outcropping of rocks and the right edge of the board. The Custodians move forwards, towards the Carnifexes. The surviving Conscripts act under Get Back in the Fight! to kill a small number of Hormagaunts, and the Infantry Squad use First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire! to thin out the Hormagaunts much more significantly. They put their Lascannon shot into the Trygon prime, doing nothing. The Punisher acts under Gunners, Kill on Sight! to rip up the Hormagaunts. The Shadowsword uses a CP to get a good number of shots out of the Volcano Cannon, and vaporizes the Trygon Prime on the spot. It uses it's Heavy Bolters to shred the Hormagaunts further. I had allocated the Lascannons to fire at the Trygon, so their shooting is lost. Pask unloads on the Toxicrene with all his weapons, since he's now in Multimelta range, and pulverizes it. The Land Raider shoots Old One Eye, taking off a little bit of his health. The Custodians shoot a 'fex, actually doing a not-terrible amount of damage. The Custodians charge all the 'fexes, which turns out to be a hilariously bad idea, and try to focus down the wounded one, but don't even manage that, and are wiped out by the Carnifexes' retaliation. I thought they could kill one, and at least hold the others for a turn, but nope, Carnifexes are scary. The remaining four Hormagaunts die from battleshock, and that's the end of my turn.
Tyranids 2: The Carnifex killblob and Old One Eye moves to attack the Land Raider, and advances. The Tervigon stay carefully in range to give Onslaught. There's no shooting phase, and the Carnifexes charge the Land Raider, followed by Old One Eye using a CP to make sure they both succeed, deleting it, and consolidate to be perilously close to the Shadowsword, but still more than an inch away. That ends his turn.
IG 3: Pask moves closer to them to get within half range on the Multimeltas because it's now or never for killing the 'fexes. Punisher stays in place, and the Dreadnought comes around to help and charge the Carnifexes if he has to in order to save the Shadowsword. The conscripts move back forward to re-secure my natural expansion objective. I unload everything into the Carnifexes, Pask kills one, the Infantry, Dreadnought, and Punisher work together to kill one, and the Shadowsword kills off Old One Eye with its Volcano Cannon and finishes the one the Custodians had been beating on with its Heavy Bolter array. That's the turn, and the game, because the Tyranids concede with all their heavy hitters dead and not nearly enough units remaining to out-score me on objective.
In retrospect: I would have traded all 800-odd points of Custodians for additional artillery and tanks. A Command Vanquisher would have matched or exceeded the Land Raider for fewer points, and it goes without saying that anything would have been more effective than my Custodian Guard squad. I did make a bad play with them there, but I would much rather have had Wyverns and Manticores. The Dreadnought should also have been traded for a second Punisher, hands down. The Shadowsword and Pask were hands-down amazing. The Conscripts did their job well too. Additional screening, perhaps a second layer of conscripts or, because I don't think I can fit in more conscripts effectively on the tabletop, strategically-placed infantry squads, will be required in the future, and I was fortunate all his Hormagaunts were concentrated in the dogleg region and packed in so heavily, because otherwise they would have been able to spill past and reach my tanks with their 6" consolidation.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/26 18:34:33
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2017/06/26 18:40:46
Subject: Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Have you had a chance yet to try out Wyverns? I don't have any Manticores as of yet, but I do have 2 Wyverns. Although I guess I could just proxy them...
Yes, they're still pretty good. They're not as good as they used to be, having been increased in cost and reduced in lethality, but they're definitely pretty decent. Kills a small handful of guys a turn.
Would you recommend taking them or trying to fit in a Manticore or maybe a Basilisk instead?
TheEyeOfNight- I swear, this thread is 70% smack talk, 20% RP organization, and 10% butt jokes
TheEyeOfNight- "Ordo Xenos reports that the Necrons have attained democracy, kamikaze tendencies, and nuclear fission. It's all tits up, sir."
Space Marine flyers are shaped for the greatest possible air resistance so that the air may never defeat the SPACE MARINES!
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum
2017/06/27 22:31:07
Subject: Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Have you had a chance yet to try out Wyverns? I don't have any Manticores as of yet, but I do have 2 Wyverns. Although I guess I could just proxy them...
Yes, they're still pretty good. They're not as good as they used to be, having been increased in cost and reduced in lethality, but they're definitely pretty decent. Kills a small handful of guys a turn.
Would you recommend taking them or trying to fit in a Manticore or maybe a Basilisk instead?
That depends. It's not a hierarchy of artillery, the Basilisk and Manticore aren't "upgrades" to the Wyvern.
A Manticore is an upgrade to a Basilisk, but both are "sidegrades" to Wyverns.
The wyvern is for shredding light infantry, so the real question is whether or not you'd rather have a Leman Russ Punisher or Hellhound.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/27 22:32:03
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2017/06/28 15:51:37
Subject: Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Does anyone know of a good proxy for a Sabre Defense Searchlight? I had no idea Forgewold stopped making them (probably because they were utterly useless until right now).
2017/06/28 16:01:27
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Hmm, you could probably take a searchlight off any IG vehicle sprue (if they have a spare, I'd hold off on de-lighting actual vehicles until the codex comes out since they might come back) and stick it on some kind of tower, or a tarantula turret base.
Or you could pull a searchlight from pretty much any 28mm model line, at the end of the day it's just a big round light. 1/58 is pretty close for companies that list their scale that way. I don't think there's an equivalent railroad scale, since it's about halfway between O and OO.
I guess if you put the searchlight on the ground instead of a tower, you might be able to strategically position infantry models to make sure only its intended target has LoS to it... that would probably be fiddly and annoying though.
2017/06/28 16:21:19
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
I've been asking this already in other topic, but i dont get enough replies. Can somebody explain me Elisyan's order "Move and Fire!"? English is not my main language, and i am a bit new to Warhammer 40000, so i am a bit confused. An Order itself says: " Any INFANTRY models in the ordered unit count their weapons as being Assault weapons until the end of the turn". Does it mean, that i can pick my elisyan veteran squad (or platoon), creep them into 6 inches away from the enemy, then order them this order and throw 10 krak grenades, since now i count my grenade profile as Assault?
Or take special weapons squard, set them, let's say, 3 inces away from the enemy, use order, throw 6d6 frag grenades, shot 6 lasgun shots (since the wargear options says "take option" not replace lasgun) and after that go full Killer Queen (is that a JoJo reference?!) and smash the ones who survived with 3 breacher charges?
Also fire every frag grenade and every lasgun at different target, 8th edition is cool.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 16:25:34
2017/06/28 16:22:37
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Also, if I was building an infantry heavy list, conscripts are the way to go right? Are the claims of them being broken true?
That's currently the topic of another thread in the General Discussion board, and right now it's just a cluster feth of an argument. I personally think they're not that broken, but there are a number of people who think that they are.
TheEyeOfNight- I swear, this thread is 70% smack talk, 20% RP organization, and 10% butt jokes
TheEyeOfNight- "Ordo Xenos reports that the Necrons have attained democracy, kamikaze tendencies, and nuclear fission. It's all tits up, sir."
Space Marine flyers are shaped for the greatest possible air resistance so that the air may never defeat the SPACE MARINES!
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum
2017/06/28 16:39:28
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Also, if I was building an infantry heavy list, conscripts are the way to go right? Are the claims of them being broken true?
The Conscripts are mathematically somewhat broken. Points per toughness, they are very hard to beat. Offensively however, most of the people who believe they're op simply calculate a theoretical damage output (4 shots in Rapid Fire-range given FRFSRF), but seldom think about how difficult it is to even get the Conscripts within 12" of something, let alone an entire unit or two.
They are very good, but I remain unconvined that they are far too OP. Some small nerfs (ability to recieve orders is one) and I think they're going to be fine.
~5000 points of IG and DKoK
I'm awful at reading private messages, so just reply to the threads I'm visiting.
2017/06/28 17:11:39
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Take 50 men conscript. Give them "Catachan" keyword Get comissar and platoon commander with them. Get a searchlight (from FW), and make sure that harker sits close to them. Now enjoy your unit, that can fire down every threat with 100 BS4 reroll one shots. Or add aegis defence line, add priest and Straken, and place all this treasure pack near your artillery and anihilate every deep striking/charging idiot with 200 BS4+ reroll 1 shots or 150(actually 250, after you get an order Fix bayonets!) BS5+ hits in melee.
2017/06/28 17:24:54
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Future War Cultist wrote: So, if they changed the <regiment> keyword to Militarum Auxilia to prevent them from receiving orders, they'd be a little fairer?
Why would Conscripts be part of the Auxilia?
2017/06/28 18:00:19
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
EricDominus wrote: I've been asking this already in other topic, but i dont get enough replies. Can somebody explain me Elisyan's order "Move and Fire!"? English is not my main language, and i am a bit new to Warhammer 40000, so i am a bit confused. An Order itself says: " Any INFANTRY models in the ordered unit count their weapons as being Assault weapons until the end of the turn". Does it mean, that i can pick my elisyan veteran squad (or platoon), creep them into 6 inches away from the enemy, then order them this order and throw 10 krak grenades, since now i count my grenade profile as Assault?
Or take special weapons squard, set them, let's say, 3 inces away from the enemy, use order, throw 6d6 frag grenades, shot 6 lasgun shots (since the wargear options says "take option" not replace lasgun) and after that go full Killer Queen (is that a JoJo reference?!) and smash the ones who survived with 3 breacher charges?
Also fire every frag grenade and every lasgun at different target, 8th edition is cool.
You know, unless it specifically excludes grenades and charges, then I think you're right. I might need to get me that book!
jaxor1983 wrote:Does anyone know of a good proxy for a Sabre Defense Searchlight? I had no idea Forgewold stopped making them (probably because they were utterly useless until right now).
I was thinking of using the metal frame from one of those small candles [about 1.5" around], and using balsa wood to set up the platform it sits on. I think with a bit of creative tinkering, I could get a little LED in there and a vaguely parabolic reflector, and have a little light-up searchlight.
I'm not sure where'd the batteries go, though.
Also, I am mildly disappointed. There are rules for barbed wire in the book, but it's not an upgrade for fortifications anymore, and there's no way to buy it on its own. Which means that my enemy has to consent to playing on a table that has a no-man's land filled with craters, barbed wire, and Czech hedgehogs. And nobody in their right mind is going to consent to playing against the guard on a table where all charge rolls count as halved :(
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 18:05:41
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2017/06/28 20:56:13
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
ross-128 wrote: Honestly, I'm still excited about saber weapon batteries and their searchlights of doom. Oh, plasma Scions/Elysians? Have fun hitting on 2, re-rolling 1, and being 100% immune to overheating. What's that? I have a hydra battery? Well guess I can hit subsonic flyers on 2, supersonic flyers on 3, and everything else on 4. Tank commanders? You're now promoted to Pask Jr. Tanks with co-ax weapons? Now they can hit on 3+ on top of getting that re-roll.
It's just kind of wonderful across the board, the only units where a +1 to hit wouldn't be worth the 20 points might be flamethrowers and Pask (assuming natural 1 always fails, if not, auto-hitting Pask!).
Even conscripts could probably benefit from being able to hit on 4+ now and then. Probably going to try to take plenty of these things, so that I have lots of +1s to pass around.
Have you noticed how the searchlights can only benefit units in the same regiment as the Sabre, and that neither Militarum Tempestus nor Elysian Drop Troops can take Sabres?
So looking really closely at this, IG flyers can't benefit from Sabre Searchlights but for a different reason. You can include Flyers and just have them as Aeronautica rather than Elysian as their main keyword, allied in via the Imperium keyword. However, in the Regiment keyword section, there is no mention that Aeronautica is in fact a 'Regiment' type, and as the flyers don't have <Regiment>, there is no way to key the Sabres to Regiment: Aeronautica.
I'm glad I looked at that closely, kind of spoils my Sabre+Vulture plan. I guess they work by buffing a nice big Conscript squad or AA units (so even better at their role or no penalty to hit ground targets)
2017/06/28 21:09:26
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
They are very good, but I remain unconvined that they are far too OP. Some small nerfs (ability to recieve orders is one) and I think they're going to be fine.
Yeah, let's remove from guard units the coolest feature of their faction. This will teach them to not be space marines.
Also, Conscripts are OP only according to mathammer. people assume too much from on block of infantry and how well it can position.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 21:09:39
Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis!
2017/06/28 21:20:26
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
They are very good, but I remain unconvined that they are far too OP. Some small nerfs (ability to recieve orders is one) and I think they're going to be fine.
Yeah, let's remove from guard units the coolest feature of their faction. This will teach them to not be space marines.
Also, Conscripts are OP only according to mathammer. people assume too much from on block of infantry and how well it can position.
I have not seen proof of anything so far, but if they are OP they would need to balanced in some way. If not orders, what else? Increase their cost, making them equal to Guardsmen but worse in every way apart from unit size? Further reduce their stats to WS/BS/Sv 6+? Removing their ability to benefit from Commisars? Having a rule stating you cannot bring more Conscripts than normal Guardsmen? I think a removal of orders may be fluffiest, as they are untrained and therefore not able to follow orders to the same degree. However, if they are not overpowered or just slightly overpowered, nothing needs to be done.
The problem as I see it is not their ability to deal damage, but their ability to weather almost anything you throw at it. If the Conscripts hold an objective, which is far from impossible, you more or less cannot shift them at all. in that situation, you might have to get close enough to be in rapid fire range of quite a lot of lasguns in order to dislodge them. In general, I think something might need to done to address hordes in an edition where anti-horde weapons are more effective against heavy infantry than light.
~5000 points of IG and DKoK
I'm awful at reading private messages, so just reply to the threads I'm visiting.
2017/06/28 21:54:19
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Remove their ability to follow orders.
Make them elites, forcing you to take regular infantry or scions as a tax.
Make them have to take a battleshock test every turn regardless of casualties.
Make them 4pts each like regular infantry, who still have to spend points on upgrades.
2017/06/28 21:56:52
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Remove their ability to follow orders.
Make them elites, forcing you to take regular infantry or scions as a tax.
Make them have to take a battleshock test every turn regardless of casualties.
Make them 4pts each like regular infantry, who still have to spend points on upgrades.
At the same time?
Congrats, you Eldared them.
2017/06/28 21:57:49
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
How about you just make them take orders on a Leadership test, like they did in 5th edition?
At LD4, they'd basically never pass an order unsupported. A Commissar would bring them up to a 50/50 pass rate. That would be enough, don't you think?
I think people are generally overreacting to the amusing mathhammer they can generate though. Once the meta shakes out, I think we'll find that they're not OP, just a strong pick.
2017/06/29 00:21:55
Subject: Re:Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Remove their ability to follow orders.
Make them elites, forcing you to take regular infantry or scions as a tax.
Make them have to take a battleshock test every turn regardless of casualties.
Make them 4pts each like regular infantry, who still have to spend points on upgrades.
That's way too harsh.
Heck making them elites is ridiculous in its own right, they're poorly trained CONSCRIPTS. They don't belong in the elites slot.
Battleshock every turn no matter what? How do you even calculate that when they take more casualties.
The points increase is the only one that makes sense, as it represents the fact that while they lack the ability to do damage (and they do, anyone thinking conscripts can reliably kill things other than infantry is insane) they make an excellent utility unit to screen charges and hold ground.
Although honestly the main nerf, if they even need one, would be removing orders. Also, perhaps commissars remove d6 conscripts instead of just one, or something like that. Or you know, bring back platoons, which kept them balanced in 7th.
That being said, people saying conscripts are OP often quote insane numbers. I know Ive said they're pretty good, but that's nothing compared to some people claiming with a straight face we will see armies numbering 600-700 strong deleting everything on the table while somehow managing to corral 50 conscripts into perfect 200 shot FRFSRF volleys.
Realistically the biggest army you will ever see on a table will be 200 or so. Any more isn't really feasible for tournament play, and anything else is casual enough you can just decline the game, like you would a guy in 7th running invisible star or something.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2017/06/29 00:28:00
Subject: Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
Right. Unless your opponent sets it up for you, there's no way you're going to get 50 conscripts to FRFSRF. Anyway that other thread got closed, let's not invite that argument here?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2017/06/29 01:38:42
Subject: Astra Militarum 8th ed. Discussion and Rumor Roundup
So now that 8th has dropped, and we've all gotten a chance to look through the indexes, I was looking at my collection and wondering what to look into getting next for my brave Cadians. Do you fine ladies and gents of Dakka have any suggestions?
I have:
5 Infantry Squads (with mixed loadouts, but I can reasonably proxy any of the special weapons)
2 Heavy Weapons Squads (3x Lascannons and 3x Heavy Bolters)
Company Command Squad (Banner, Medic, Vox, Assorted Special Weapons)
Master of Ordinance, Fleet.
3x Company Commanders (one with Power Fist/Plasma Pistol, one with Power Sword/Laspistol, one with Chainsword/Plasma Pistol)
1 Platoon Commander (Bolt Pistol, but my Company Commanders can act as Platoon Commanders as well)
5 Scions with 2 Plasma Guns
Lord Commissar (Plasma Pistol and Power Sword)
Leman Russ Punisher (with Pask)
2 Magnetized Leman Russes
Valkyrie
2 Wyverns
I also have the Imperial Triumvirate (the one with Celestine) and some assorted Assassins.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/29 01:38:58
TheEyeOfNight- I swear, this thread is 70% smack talk, 20% RP organization, and 10% butt jokes
TheEyeOfNight- "Ordo Xenos reports that the Necrons have attained democracy, kamikaze tendencies, and nuclear fission. It's all tits up, sir."
Space Marine flyers are shaped for the greatest possible air resistance so that the air may never defeat the SPACE MARINES!
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum