Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am a little confused.

If a bolt gun has - AP modifier how would that effect a 5+ armor save?

If a weapon is -2 would that make a 3+ save go to 5+???

That's exactly how it works.

You are correct sir

usmcmidn wrote:
I am a little confused.

If a bolt gun has - AP modifier how would that effect a 5+ armor save?

It wouldn't.

If a weapon is -2 would that make a 3+ save go to 5+???

Yes.

 Fenris-77 wrote:
That's exactly how it works.

Not.... exactly... It's certainly how it practically works, but the modifier affects the result of the die roll, not the armor save stat itself.

So if I've got a 3+ save and I'm facing a -2 Rend weapon, my Armor save is still 3+, but if I roll a 4, I fail the roll because the Rend drops my 4-2 = 2 which fails the 3+ check.

Totally semantics, but it helps make sense why its listed as -2 instead of +2.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
That's exactly how it works.

Not.... exactly... It's certainly how it practically works, but the modifier affects the result of the die roll, not the armor save stat itself.

So if I've got a 3+ save and I'm facing a -2 Rend weapon, my Armor save is still 3+, but if I roll a 4, I fail the roll because the Rend drops my 4-2 = 2 which fails the 3+ check.

Totally semantics, but it helps make sense why its listed as -2 instead of +2.

It is equally accurate to say you subtract the AP from the save listed. +3 save, subtracting a (-2), takes you to a +5 save.

But how you've described it is probably how it'll be written in the rules. I just don't like the idea of doing math per dice, when you can do the math up front.

Oh righto thanks guys I really appreciate it! I am excited for this edition I must say!

The reason why is important to know that is a malus to the roll and not a substraction of your save is because some habilities are triggered in a specific number of the save roll.

For example, if you have "In a save roll of 6 or more, you cause 1 wound to the unit that has attack you in meele", if that unit has -1 AP, that hability can't trigger, because if you roll a 6, it will be 6-1=5.

In 90% of the cases you can assume that -2AP makes a 3+ save into a 5+ save, but is important to know how it really works for those cases.

 Marmatag wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
That's exactly how it works.

Not.... exactly... It's certainly how it practically works, but the modifier affects the result of the die roll, not the armor save stat itself.

So if I've got a 3+ save and I'm facing a -2 Rend weapon, my Armor save is still 3+, but if I roll a 4, I fail the roll because the Rend drops my 4-2 = 2 which fails the 3+ check.

Totally semantics, but it helps make sense why its listed as -2 instead of +2.

It is equally accurate to say you subtract the AP from the save listed. +3 save, subtracting a (-2), takes you to a +5 save.

But how you've described it is probably how it'll be written in the rules. I just don't like the idea of doing math per dice, when you can do the math up front.

I agree. Just do the math then roll against that new value. Playing AOS now to prepare for 8th. It's been a big help.