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 Marmatag wrote:

For 150 points Celestine is absolute cheese and i feel like a genuine "that guy" for bringing her. I'll just leave this here. If someone charges Celestine, or she heroic pile ins, she will get 18 attacks before the attacker can respond - 6 from her attacks, 6 from act of cheese, 6 from her normal activation. That's stupid - i don't know what else to say about it. I use this model and i think it should be nerfed massively, I just don't feel good beating people with it. She did 12 wounds to a wraithknight in the span of 1 game turn. That's not even fair.

Wait I don't get it, why are you getting 18 attacks from Celestine before the person who charges her attacks? Or are you just talking about her using heroic intervention?

If she gets charged, the opponent will hit her first, then she'll get her six attacks, and then next turn she can AoF and attack normally. If she heroic interventions she will get 6 attacks, then next turn she can AoF and attack normally. Is that what you mean or am I missing something?

What are people's thoughts about needing celestine's superiora?

 buddha wrote:
What are people's thoughts about needing celestine's superiora?

Since they lost the ability to bodyguard soak wounds for her I consider them completely superfluous.

Audustum wrote:

 buddha wrote:
What are people's thoughts about needing celestine's superiora?

Since they lost the ability to soak wounds for her I consider them completely superfluous.

Agreed. I think compared to last edition she is nowhere near as tough, however has a lot more offensive output and utility mostly thanks to acts of faith. Once the opponent starts to put serious hurt on her she will die pretty quick. She needs to use the character rule for protection rather than her little chickies.

Also the points cost for each of them is substantial, they're not worth anywhere near 50 points for just the regen rule, and a few power sword attacks doesn't make up for it.

I'm really hoping for a few more Grey Knight HQ choices that are viable from the new codex, hopefully not some flavour of 'hero in terminator armour'.

 Marmatag wrote:

Seizeman wrote:

Storm of fire was the perfect warlord trait for Draigo. He gives a basic bitch rend on wound rolls of 6 to all Grey Knights within 6". Well we puke out storm bolter shots like it's going out of style. Giving them some rend is wicked sick.

Draigo has no chapter keyword, so Storm of fire does absolutely nothing on him.

Grey Knights replace <chapter> with Grey Knights. It was ruled I could do it so i did.

Grey Knights don't have "<chapter>", they have "Grey Knights" so this is an incorrect ruling.

jcd386 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

Seizeman wrote:

Storm of fire was the perfect warlord trait for Draigo. He gives a basic bitch rend on wound rolls of 6 to all Grey Knights within 6". Well we puke out storm bolter shots like it's going out of style. Giving them some rend is wicked sick.

Draigo has no chapter keyword, so Storm of fire does absolutely nothing on him.

Grey Knights replace <chapter> with Grey Knights. It was ruled I could do it so i did.

Grey Knights don't have "<chapter>", they have "Grey Knights" so this is an incorrect ruling.

Without having seen the SM codex, in the index Roboute Guilliman, or Marneus Calgar, don't have <Chapter>, they have "Ultramarines". Would that make them unable to benefit as well?

Pg. 194 of the Adeptus Astartes codex

In the rules described in this section we often refer to ‘Space Marines units’. This is shorthand for any ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit that has one of the following Faction keywords: <CHAPTER>, ULTRAMARINES, IMPERIAL
FISTS, SALAMANDERS, WHITE SCARS, RAVEN GUARD, IRON HANDS, CRIMSON FISTS or BLACK TEMPLARS. A Space Marines Detachment is therefore one which only includes units with one of these keywords. Note that other Space Marine Chapters, such as the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves, deviate significantly in terms of organisation and fighting styles. These Chapters therefore cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in this section, and instead have their own rules..

This paragraph introduces the "section" that contains warlord traits, strategems, relics, chapter tactics, etc.

What do you think about strike squads, interceptors and purifier which are sold out on Gamesworkshop webstore?

I am a little worried as I recently bought alot of them..

HeavenLord wrote:
What do you think about strike squads, interceptors and purifier which are sold out on Gamesworkshop webstore?

I am a little worried as I recently bought alot of them..

They won't be replaced by new models, GW has too much on their plate and too much other stuff that should be replaced first anyway.

They will be repackaged into different boxes I believe.

Possibly getting 32mm bases and new datasheets. I wouldn't look into it too much.

Well, it probably was the incorrect ruling. I didn't even think to try until it was ruled in favor of another Grey Knights player, and then i said, "hey let me see those traits." I didn't buy the book because I assumed it wouldn't work for me.

Anyway, that's a bit of a bummer. We could really have benefited from those traits, and stratagems.

 Marmatag wrote:
Well, it probably was the incorrect ruling. I didn't even think to try until it was ruled in favor of another Grey Knights player, and then i said, "hey let me see those traits." I didn't buy the book because I assumed it wouldn't work for me.

Anyway, that's a bit of a bummer. We could really have benefited from those traits, and stratagems.

Yeah it's a bummer. But don't worry, we're getting our own codex soon. And there's absolutely no way GW will shaft us this edition, right?


... right?

Nairul wrote:


Yeah it's a bummer. But don't worry, we're getting our own codex soon. And there's absolutely no way GW will shaft us this edition, right?


... right?

Yeah I bet our stratagems will be sweet, lots of rending and rerolls...

Maybe we'll get an ap value on our heavy weapons... lol.

A few of our strategems are in the new WD also.

There's the 1/3CP copy/paste from marines to get an extra or 2 extra relics.

There's a 1CP to cast an extra spell with a unit.

There's a 2CP one to increase character buff bubbles to 12" (handy if they get seperated with charge rolls)

There's an unknown CP one to roll 3 dice on a cast and pick 2 dice.



What I hope will be there: a charge booster to get into CC (brilliant for deepstriking)

Spartacus wrote:


They won't be replaced by new models, GW has too much on their plate and too much other stuff that should be replaced first anyway.

They will be repackaged into different boxes I believe.

Yeah, those are way too new for a reboot. Probably just a repackage. With Ultramarine transfers.

I don't think Grey knights even have enough open space on their armour to even allow for transfers to be applied...

So yeah, Grey Knights have access to SM flyers in the codex. Good, bad, amazing?

I think I will use those almost exclusively as my starting on board part of the army. -1 to hit is powerful and they can get the firepower where needed.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/04/new-psychic-powers-new-heroes-and-more-your-first-look-at-codex-grey-knights-aug4gw-homepage-post-3/

Well, where to start...

The Relic 'Banner of Refined Flame' stands out for me - Gives a Paladin or Brotherhood Ancient a 6 inch range Purifier Smite - good way to amp up that assault out of the Stormraven. As written it doesn't seem to remove the Sacred Banner ability either, so you're still getting an Aura of +1 attacks.

https://youtu.be/OWrG8DofaFA

Here is the review of the whole codex.
Sadly nothing really new.

Sanctuary is back, thats nice (no new invul saves for Terminators/Paladins otherwise).
Some nice Stratagems, OK Relics, very nice Warlord Traits.

Grandmaster NDK looks fine points and rules wise.

Rifle Dreads go into the trash.
Heavy weapons got nothing new and Falchions still seem to be the best CC weapons.

A battleforged GK only army now gets +1 to all psychic/DtW tests, nice.

From what I could see of the points values, everything is the same.

Except for some reason they've increased the cost of Troop Terminators by 2 points. Now even less reason to bring them over Paladins. (Although Obj secured terminators will be nice).

Relics, Warlord Traits and Psychic powers are sweet, I'm happy.

I don't think it's enough to make us competitive. Our relics are actually extremely restrictive and I think the new Dreadknights HQ can only take the Liber (-1 Leadership to nearby Daemons).

We did get a Warlord Trait to re-roll charges though. Our Stratagems and Psychic powers seem fine I think. Our special guns are all still Heavy.

Yeah, I don't really understand GW on this one. Why release GK so quick after the index when they only change the bare minimum?

I don't mean to sound spoiled when I say "I expected more", but seeing that the main points that people were complaining about didn't even get touched and that GK didn't get any new models just feels like a wasted dex for me.

Gest wrote:
Yeah, I don't really understand GW on this one. Why release GK so quick after the index when they only change the bare minimum?

I don't mean to sound spoiled when I say "I expected more", but seeing that the main points that people were complaining about didn't even get touched and that GK didn't get any new models just feels like a wasted dex for me.

Pretty much this. I won't be getting this book for that exact reason. Not enough of a change for the stuff I have.

Yea, no reason to grab this. I just need to remember 3 rule differences.

Warlord Trait 4 - reroll charges
Battleforged Detachments - obj. secured & -+1 on psychic dice.

We needed basic QoL changes, we got... REALLY overcosted stratagems. 3 CP for another fight phase? 2 CP for 1 turn psybolt? Those needed to be 1 less each. Got to say I was REALLY let down here, I saw the potential of stratagems in being able to really kick an army into overdrive in terms of viability. If the CP costs were actually accurate I could see GK being really competitive. Another ed. of pretty much nothing.

It's really hilarious they said GK would be op without the smite change... everything shows otherwise.

 Quickjager wrote:
Yea, no reason to grab this. I just need to remember 3 rule differences.

Warlord Trait 4 - reroll charges
Battleforged Detachments - obj. secured & -+1 on psychic dice.

We needed basic QoL changes, we got... REALLY overcosted stratagems. 3 CP for another fight phase? 2 CP for 1 turn psybolt? Those needed to be 1 less each. Got to say I was REALLY let down here, I saw the potential of stratagems in being able to really kick an army into overdrive in terms of viability. If the CP costs were actually accurate I could see GK being really competitive. Another ed. of pretty much nothing.

It's really hilarious they said GK would be op without the smite change... everything shows otherwise.

CSM seem to be getting lots of point reduction like C:SM did too. Not us though! We can't even get some AP on the Psycannon or Assault on our Flamer(Incinerator)!

Fuzzy image taken from the preview video on youtube....

Looks like they upped the cost of terminators troops to 46 points base? The most point inefficient unit in our troops section just got nerfed a bit more from the looks of it. Oh well, back to spamming strikes, interceptors and paladins.

FW FAQed our option to get mortis dreads (as in, we can't) and GW stated that you need to use the newest datasheets for dreadnoughts (that don't allow double autocannons). No stormhawk/stormtalons can really make up for that massive loss in long range firepower imo.

...So it is possible to have a Brigade detachment of nothing but Grey Knights, but it sucks...

Everyone who can has falchions.

HQ
Draigo
Brotherhood Champ

Troop
GKSS - Vanilla x 6

Elites
Apothecary - Hammer x 2
Apothecary - Vanilla x 1

Fast Attack
Interceptor Squad - Vanilla x 3

Heavy Support
Purgation - 4 Psilencers x 3

Just under 2k points, what does it get us?

- 12 CP so we can actually use these stratagems
- Everything in Power Armor except for 4 models
- 65 models on the board divided by 17 units, so 8 possible deepstrikers
- Make the Bro. Champ Warlord for the charge reroll
- Obj. Secured and Psychic Mastery

What would the strategy be with this list? Well we have 12 CP, so lets start spending that CP to put extra units into deepstrike, Bro. Champ is in the chamber, -1 CP.

8 units go in, we already got 1, 7 more.
- Draigo
- Apothecary Hammer
- Apothecary Hammer
- GKSS
- GKSS
- GKSS
- GKSS

Why not the Purgations? Because we want the melee to actually be in melee and not having the enemy removing models for a harder charge. Purgation are just gonna have to hoof it up the board. The last 2 GKSS will provide an escort, the enemy will have reserves on some kind of course. The last Apoth. can replenish models as they walk up because he probably won't be doing anything else.

Interceptors shunt up the board.

All of a sudden we have 10 units for a total of 38 force-sword wielding models in the face w/ 11 CP left. We won't be using the bolter weapon stratagem because we don't have a 10 man unit to benefit.

But is the enough? I have no idea. Do we NEED 9+ CP? Probably not.

But I know I don't have that many PA Grey Knights, I don't think it is a good list either. Thoughts?

 Elmir wrote:


Looks like they upped the cost of terminators troops to 46 points base? The most point inefficient unit in our troops section just got nerfed a bit more from the looks of it. Oh well, back to spamming strikes, interceptors and paladins.

FW FAQed our option to get mortis dreads (as in, we can't) and GW stated that you need to use the newest datasheets for dreadnoughts (that don't allow double autocannons). No stormhawk/stormtalons can really make up for that massive loss in long range firepower imo.

So much this^.

I don't understand this. GK in the index seemed very narrow when it came to creativity of list building, I hoped that the codex would open this up a bit, giving us maybe more than one strategy to play. This way GK are even more of a one trick pony than before.
Now they took the last real long range option we had, while giving us flyers that no one really asked for. (but of course, everyone has enough Dreads. But no GK has the flyers, $$$$ buy new stuff!)

I'm getting even more disappointed the more I think about it.
I didn't really wanted them to get OP(I remember 5th Edition), I just wanted a few more options, a little bit more finesse than alphastrike and hope for the best.
Just a bit better heavy weapons that aren't worse than Stormbolters(for their points).

 Elmir wrote:


FW FAQed our option to get mortis dreads (as in, we can't) and GW stated that you need to use the newest datasheets for dreadnoughts (that don't allow double autocannons). No stormhawk/stormtalons can really make up for that massive loss in long range firepower imo.

Not sure why everyone considers this a big deal. Dakka dreads are sweet looking, but the FW Doomglaive pattern is cheaper while being vastly better in CC, and only slightly worse at shooting. He should be your pick for an optimised list.

If you want something to sit in the back and plink away, a razorback with twin lascannons is far cheaper and just as effective anyway.

The Terminators points increase was absolutely mindless, but who was using them anyway?

So its not a perfect release, but remember this is GW guys. We could have ended up like Iron Warriors. I'm gonna play a few games before I make up my mind.