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 Talamare wrote:
Mont'ka clarification

"Can both advance and shoot as if they haven't moved."

So does that mean they can Advance and Shoot

As well as that shooting will be considered that they have remained stationary the entire time?

Yes to both

Not sure if anyone else noticed this yet, but the FW Xenos index is listed on their Aussie site as coming soon, and one of the preview images is the table of contents for the book, showing what units are listed in it. It all looked pretty much as expected, with two notable exceptions.

1. We finally have a model with no new rules for 8th. The XV89 Crisis Suit is gone. It's not listed for Tau in the ToC. Both the XV81 and XV84 are as seperate Commander entries, but the XV89 is notably absent. Unless it got reworked into a general Crisis upgrade and is just listed under wargear options for the army (though that would still beg the question as to why it didn't rate a new unit page while the other two did), this guy's on his way out. The model is still available for purchase on the Aussie site at the time that I'm writing this. Hopefully this is a misprint or something or the rules for him are coming in the new IA book coming out, but if you like the model, you may want to jump on and order one as they may not be around much longer.

2. There are two new units listed. The TX7 Heavy Bombardment Hammerhead Gunship and the TX7 Fire Support Hammerhead Gunship. My first thought when I saw those were "That sounds a lot like Tau artillery!". My second thought was "Wait, FW gave Hammerheads a bunch of special turrets, a plasma one, a fusion one, and a missile one." So I checked the website. Not sure when it happened, but the plasma and fusion turrets are gone. Only the missile one is left. So now my mind has jumped back to thinking "Those sound a lot like artillery!!!" Whatever they are, they are apparently different enough from the normal Hammerhead to rate their own unit entry in the FW Index, as well as different enough from each other to rate seperate unit entries.

So, let's get some baseless speculation going! What is the fate of the XV89? Are we gonna say goodbye to that rather cool looking suit? What are these two new tanks we're apparently getting and what their profiles and weapons be like?

fusion and plasma turrets gone is a bad thing in my eyes. they weren't very good, but they were options nonetheless and could hav been reworked to be competitive in 8th.

xv89... wasn't it the SMS one? or the markerlight one? I think I never used it before

The old Barracuda and all Kroot are gone

This was the xv89

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/XV89-Crisis-Battlesuit

Never used it, but I think it was the one that increased toughness at the cost of movement or something like that?

The old Barracuda was removed awhile ago, replaced by the new one that's basically better in everyway. I think the Kroot were removed awhile ago as well, I hadn't seen them on there is awhile (granted I'm not the biggest fan of auxiliaries in general so I never paid them much focus, could've missed them).

I'm very interested in how they adapt the R'varna, Y'Vahra, and Ta'unar. None of those had weapons that would translate easily into the new weapon formats. Tetras have always been a favorite of mine, so I'm looking forward to those,as well, though I don't think they'll change a whole lot.

The XV89 explicitly has no rules, it's just a variant appearance crisis suit and has always been so.

MilkmanAl wrote:
I'm very interested in how they adapt the R'varna, Y'Vahra, and Ta'unar. None of those had weapons that would translate easily into the new weapon formats. Tetras have always been a favorite of mine, so I'm looking forward to those,as well, though I don't think they'll change a whole lot.

Me too! already got a R'varna and I'm looking forward to buy the other 2.

Tetras are my favorite Tau unit; however with the new deep strike and homing beacons working as they do now, I don't foresee much use for them now...

Does anyone think that having the drones separate into their own units make them too easy of a target for your opponent to just pick off and easily cancel their buffs?

I really like the idea of them being able to split off and go where they are needed, but when your opponent can just take a couple of shots and destroy your grav-inhibitor drone before he charges will the drones really be that beneficial?

I get that any shots they take at the drones are not targeting your troops or suits or whatever, so really that is a good thing if they are targeting shield drones or gun drones because that is mostly why they are there anyway. The drones with specific benefits though seem to be made pretty weak by this. Another example would be the stealth drones with the Ghostkeel. If they take out the drones first that -2 to hit is now only -1.

Obviously pros and cons either way, but I just wanted to get the take of some other people. Thanks!

I agree that drones are not exactly the most reliable sources of buffs, but they're also really cheap now. Furthermore, you can reliably hide stealth drones behind a Ghostkeel, so you can force your opponent to jockey a bit to get at them. I wouldn't count on those bonuses being available, but it's worth 8 points to try, in my opinion.

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Does anyone think that having the drones separate into their own units make them too easy of a target for your opponent to just pick off and easily cancel their buffs?

I really like the idea of them being able to split off and go where they are needed, but when your opponent can just take a couple of shots and destroy your grav-inhibitor drone before he charges will the drones really be that beneficial?

I get that any shots they take at the drones are not targeting your troops or suits or whatever, so really that is a good thing if they are targeting shield drones or gun drones because that is mostly why they are there anyway. The drones with specific benefits though seem to be made pretty weak by this. Another example would be the stealth drones with the Ghostkeel. If they take out the drones first that -2 to hit is now only -1.

Obviously pros and cons either way, but I just wanted to get the take of some other people. Thanks!

Completely agree. While we can fill the board with cheap tactical drones, Ghostkeel/Pathfinders ones are more exclusive and expensive. You'll have to use impassable terrain to stop them from being singled out by enemies

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Does anyone think that having the drones separate into their own units make them too easy of a target for your opponent to just pick off and easily cancel their buffs?

I really like the idea of them being able to split off and go where they are needed, but when your opponent can just take a couple of shots and destroy your grav-inhibitor drone before he charges will the drones really be that beneficial?

I get that any shots they take at the drones are not targeting your troops or suits or whatever, so really that is a good thing if they are targeting shield drones or gun drones because that is mostly why they are there anyway. The drones with specific benefits though seem to be made pretty weak by this. Another example would be the stealth drones with the Ghostkeel. If they take out the drones first that -2 to hit is now only -1.

Obviously pros and cons either way, but I just wanted to get the take of some other people. Thanks!

They have the same save but better toughness for infantry as for the bigger units where its better to shoot at the drones no matter what keep them in hiding. make sure they cannot be targeted, or dont bring special drone.

I just re-read it, and nevermind

When I read the XV88 profile I thought the railrifle looks pretty decent compared to the HYMP and it might actually be a comparable choice.
Then I read, that you exchance the HRR for TWO HYMP!

Compared:

HRR: Heavy 2 S8 AP-4 D D6 + Mortal wounds
Best Case Scenario: 12 Wounds + 2 Motal Wounds

vs.

HYMP: Heavy 8 (2x4) S7 AP-1 D3
Best Case Scenario: 24 Wounds

the HYMP might be the better choice against Light Vehicles and Infantry while the HRR might this edition actually serve a purpose against Heave Vehicles and Monstrous creatures, while beeing almost useless against infantry.

What do you think?
What would be your weapon of choice?

My thoughts so far are:

- Hammerheads, HRR XV88 and Fusion Crisis against the big stuff
- Plasma Crisis against Heavy infantry (e.g. Terminators)
- Do MP Crisis still serve a purpose?

Aeri wrote:
When I read the XV88 profile I thought the railrifle looks pretty decent compared to the HYMP and it might actually be a comparable choice.
Then I read, that you exchance the HRR for TWO HYMP!

Compared:

HRR: Heavy 2 S8 AP-4 D D6 + Mortal wounds
Best Case Scenario: 12 Wounds + 2 Motal Wounds

vs.

HYMP: Heavy 8 (2x4) S7 AP-1 D3
Best Case Scenario: 24 Wounds

the HYMP might be the better choice against Light Vehicles and Infantry while the HRR might this edition actually serve a purpose against Heave Vehicles and Monstrous creatures, while beeing almost useless against infantry.

What do you think?
What would be your weapon of choice?

My thoughts so far are:

- Hammerheads, HRR XV88 and Fusion Crisis against the big stuff
- Plasma Crisis against Heavy infantry (e.g. Terminators)
- Do MP Crisis still serve a purpose?

vs Assuming T6 assumes Save+4, T7 or higher higher assumes Save+3
HYMP || Railgun
T6 - 8 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 2 = 3.55 || 2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 1 = 2.5
T7 - 8 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 2 = 2 || 2 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 1 = 2.5
T8 - 8 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 1/2 * 2 = 1.33 || 2 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 1 = 1.91
T9 - 8 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 1/2 * 2 = 1.33 || 2 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 1 = 1.33

So yea, against Light Vehicles such as Necrons, War Walkers, Drew Carey HYMP will be better. Against Imperium vehicles like Rhinos, then Railgun is better.
Railgun is also cheaper 162 vs 143 (not including 2ndary guns or support)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Markerlight effect of reroll 1 on each accuracy

1/6 * Accuracy + Accuracy
5+ = 1/3 * 1/6 + 1/3 = 1/18 + 6/18 = 7/18
4+ = 1/2 * 1/6 + 1/2 = 1/12 + 6/12 = 7/12
3+ = 2/3 * 1/6 + 2/3 = 2/18 + 12/18 = 14/18
2+ = 5/6 * 1/6 + 5/6 = 5/36 + 30/36 = 35/36

Setting them all to equal denominator

5+ = 14/36
4+ = 21/36
3+ = 28/36
2+ = 35/36

I'd rathe use Vespid than Plasma Crisis suits now

 Talamare wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Markerlight effect of reroll 1 on each accuracy

1/6 * Accuracy + Accuracy
5+ = 1/3 * 1/6 + 1/3 = 1/18 + 6/18 = 7/18
4+ = 1/2 * 1/6 + 1/2 = 1/12 + 6/12 = 7/12
3+ = 2/3 * 1/6 + 2/3 = 2/18 + 12/18 = 14/18
2+ = 5/6 * 1/6 + 5/6 = 5/36 + 30/36 = 35/36

Setting them all to equal denominator

5+ = 14/36
4+ = 21/36
3+ = 28/36
2+ = 35/36

To be honest, I didn't understand that part ^^

(Broadside vs Hammerhead(155)) with Markerlight

T7 - 2 * 7/12 * 2/3 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 1 = 2.88 || 1 * 14/18 * 2/3 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 2 = 2.14
T8 - 2 * 7/12 * 1/2 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 1 = 2.20 || 1 * 14/18 * 2/3 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 2 = 2.14
T9 - 2 * 7/12 * 1/3 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 1 = 1.52 || 1 * 14/18 * 2/3 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 2 = 2.14


Hammerhead vs Longstrike Support vs LongRails
1 * 14/18 * 2/3 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 2 = 2.14 || 1 * 35/36 * 2/3 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/6 * 2 = 2.60 || 1 * 35/36 * 5/6 * 6/6 * 3.5 + 1/3 * 2 = 3.50


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aeri wrote:

 Talamare wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Markerlight effect of reroll 1 on each accuracy

1/6 * Accuracy + Accuracy
5+ = 1/3 * 1/6 + 1/3 = 1/18 + 6/18 = 7/18
4+ = 1/2 * 1/6 + 1/2 = 1/12 + 6/12 = 7/12
3+ = 2/3 * 1/6 + 2/3 = 2/18 + 12/18 = 14/18
2+ = 5/6 * 1/6 + 5/6 = 5/36 + 30/36 = 35/36

Setting them all to equal denominator

5+ = 14/36
4+ = 21/36
3+ = 28/36
2+ = 35/36

To be honest, I didn't understand that part ^^

Just replace those accuracy values on the bottom according to a models accuracy if you want to know the average when the model is firing at a target that has been affected by a markerlight.

But basically, you have a 1/6 chance of rolling a 1, if you do you multiply the targets accuracy again since you have a second die roll. Then you just add the original chance of success to the second chance of success.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
vs Tripod Crisis (114 points), as always T6 assumes 4+ save | T7+ assumes 3+ save <<-- Assumes No Markerlight

T6 - 6 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 2 = 2.66
T7 - 6 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2 * 2 = 1.5
T8 - 6 * 1/2 * 1/3 * 1/2 * 2 = 1.0

Broadside HYMP vs Crisis by points 162 vs 114 (In these results, Lower is better)
T6 - 45.63 || 42.85
T7 - 81.00 || 76.00
T8 - 121.80 || 114.00


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Some more by points

BroadRails(143) vs Hammerhead(155) vs Long Hammerhead(155) vs LongRails (175) <<-- Assumes Markerlight
T7 - 49.65 || 72.42 || 67.30 || 59.61 || 50
T8 - 65.0
T9 - 94.0

How are points figured in this edition. When it says that you may replace one weapon or system with another, do we subtract the costs of the replaced systems before adding the additions? For instance, on Crisis Battlesuits, the base cost is 42 points. If I decide to replace the burst cannon with a trio of Flamers, is the ending cost 59 or 69 points?

 carldooley wrote:
How are points figured in this edition. When it says that you may replace one weapon or system with another, do we subtract the costs of the replaced systems before adding the additions? For instance, on Crisis Battlesuits, the base cost is 42 points. If I decide to replace the burst cannon with a trio of Flamers, is the ending cost 59 or 69 points?

69 points
With the exception of Drones and most Characters, units are listed as their cost without wargear.

 Talamare wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
How are points figured in this edition. When it says that you may replace one weapon or system with another, do we subtract the costs of the replaced systems before adding the additions? For instance, on Crisis Battlesuits, the base cost is 42 points. If I decide to replace the burst cannon with a trio of Flamers, is the ending cost 59 or 69 points?

69 points
With the exception of Drones and most Characters, units are listed as their cost without wargear.

Thanks. Would Longstrike be one of the exceptions? Are the costs of the weapon systems added to his cost?

Characters have wargear already costed in, except drones

Well then. . . buffmander is dead, long live Longstrike?

 carldooley wrote:

 Talamare wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
How are points figured in this edition. When it says that you may replace one weapon or system with another, do we subtract the costs of the replaced systems before adding the additions? For instance, on Crisis Battlesuits, the base cost is 42 points. If I decide to replace the burst cannon with a trio of Flamers, is the ending cost 59 or 69 points?

69 points
With the exception of Drones and most Characters, units are listed as their cost without wargear.

Thanks. Would Longstrike be one of the exceptions? Are the costs of the weapon systems added to his cost?

Nope, but he ends up only being 20 points. I would say he is the best possible 20 points you can spend in Tau. If you only bring 1 Hammerhead, or as I call it. Longhead. It is still worth it.

Darkstrider for example only works with Infantry, With our S5 guns it would only really be useful with Danger Close Breachers or vs T5/T6 enemies.
Fireblade again only really works with infantry.
Ethereal basically gives you Markerlight 1 if you don't move... meh

Overall, I would say whoever designed Tau... Probably didn't do a great job testing them. If they had then the Markerlight table wouldn't be as terrible as it currently is.
Most Support System or Commander buffs are replicated in the current Markerlight system.

Edit - On second thought, the Markerlight system is probably rather fine. I would change it to the Commander & Support System benefits could have been better.

Edit2 - On third thought, I just looked thru IG... It looks like they are in a similar boat in that they have like half a dozen ways of getting the reroll 1s benefit. So it's not really a Tau issue. It's more of a general widespread uninspired approach to game design.

I'm hesitant to say this for fear of starting a bitch-fest, but I was pretty concerned with the ITC guys being at the top of the playtesting ladder where Tau were concerned. I know Frankie was all about his dual surge/Riptide Wing list, but they've historically had a strangely anti-Tau approach, it seems. That said, I think Tau have turned out fine with a few exceptions. There are some oversights, like the marker table getting duplicated by numerous abilities and Riptides being markedly, almost ridiculously, overcosted (or so it seems - perhaps the tabletop will demonstrate otherwise), but I think the army is well-balanced, as a whole.

When fielding Crisis Suits do you think it would be more beneficial to have each one a dedicated platform to one type of weapon(for example arm the suit with three missile pods, three fusion blasters, etc.) or have each suit carry a variety of weapons(such as one missile pod, one fusion blaster, and one burst cannon)?

The current lack of JSJ, and the temporary state of these...indexes, has led me to box my stuff up until GW can be bothered to release the appropriate rules. I'm not spending any more money on the hobby. I got a couple of potential buyers for my stuff. I may drop flags entirely, the friends I used to play with aren't really my friends anymore, and they won't play 8th anyways

I am really looking forward to the FW Barracuda rules.
I bought one last year and finished painting it a few weeks ago and I really wanna try my new toy

On a side note:
Since I it already came up quite a lot and people were freaking out a bit at my local FLGS Whatsapp group - ONLY Gun Drones have to shoot at the closest unit, marker drones can still use their markerlights however you like ;-)

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
When fielding Crisis Suits do you think it would be more beneficial to have each one a dedicated platform to one type of weapon(for example arm the suit with three missile pods, three fusion blasters, etc.) or have each suit carry a variety of weapons(such as one missile pod, one fusion blaster, and one burst cannon)?

It really depends on the weapons in question due to cost. 3 suits with 3x missile pods each would be hands down the best choice in most situations. However the cost is way too prohibitive. The new split fire rules means that mixed weapons are more viable.

For a take all comers list you probably won't see flamers and burstcannons unless they are splashed (attached to a single suit). You also need to consider the range of the weapon mix. Plasma rifles pair well with fusion blasters and missile pods, but fusion blasters will generally paint poorly with missile pods. You also don't want to be runnng a suit with 3 of a weapon that cost 20+ points. Plasma rifles should be overlooked as they are cheap and deal with both infantry blobs and meq.

It looks like fireknife configuration will be making a return (2x plasma rifle, 1x missile pod). It is strong at range and closeup, the cost is reasonable at 88 pts vs 114 for triple missile pod.

I'm also a fan of burning eye configuration 2x plasma, 1x fusion, but you'll need to dance close to your opponent.


It's easy to fall in the trap of pimping out your suits and then wondering why your model count is so low

With how transports work now, I'm wondering if loading a Devilfish with half a squad of strike team and a half squad of breachers would work.

Work or be legal?Because it's legal.