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What do people think about flyers in 8ed now that all rules are leaked? I have seen the Ork, Eldar und Dark Eldar flyers.

When getting shoot at a -1 to hit modifier. So they will be easier to hit for most units.

Minimal movement of all flyers I have seen is 20, a little bit more as in 7th. Max movement varies. Apart from the craftworld flyers who can pivot 90° a second time after movement all flyers can only pivot one time 90° before movement. Leaving the table is not an option because if you do the flyer is destroyed.

You have to see the target you shoot at, you can't shoot behind you or sideways.

Flyer seem to be the only unit where manoevering/facing is extremly important now but at the same time it is more difficult to line up to shoot at viable targets even moreso without the ability to come back at an better position after leaving the table. I am not shure if they are worth to take.
What are your thoughts?

Flyers are broken in so many ways, and a strong reason not to play 8th.

One thing I've noticed is that they generally don't get an exception from "heavy weapons that moved fire at -1". And they have a minimum move, so... while flyers might get -1 to incoming fire, they're also always going to be shooting at -1 themselves.

That aside though, at T7 14 Wounds 3+ the Valkyrie for IG is a pretty good sky tank. I'm probably just going to run it in Hover mode most of the time so it can do grav-chutes without a dangerous terrain test, doesn't have to deal with turning restrictions, and has the option of sitting still to shoot at full BS. Giving up a -1 to incoming fire is a small price to pay for those benefits. I'm basically going to treat Supersonic mode like running.

 Peregrine wrote:
Flyers are broken in so many ways, and a strong reason not to play 8th.

Seems like all you do is post in 40k general, telling people not to play. Don't you have better things to do? Please don't answer that question, it was rhetorical in case you didn't realize.

Anon052 wrote:
What do people think about flyers in 8ed now that all rules are leaked? I have seen the Ork, Eldar und Dark Eldar flyers.

When getting shoot at a -1 to hit modifier. So they will be easier to hit for most units.

Minimal movement of all flyers I have seen is 20, a little bit more as in 7th. Max movement varies. Apart from the craftworld flyers who can pivot 90° a second time after movement all flyers can only pivot one time 90° before movement. Leaving the table is not an option because if you do the flyer is destroyed.

You have to see the target you shoot at, you can't shoot behind you or sideways.

Flyer seem to be the only unit where manoevering/facing is extremly important now but at the same time it is more difficult to line up to shoot at viable targets even moreso without the ability to come back at an better position after leaving the table. I am not shure if they are worth to take.
What are your thoughts?

It doesn't actually say how LOS works in what's been leaked so far, and there's nothing I've read about vehicles specifically that brings importance to facing. As such, until I read otherwise, I'm going to think it's okay to shoot any weapons from any direction.

I haven't played against them jet. But they appear to be quite flimsy against most good BS armies (most armies). Marines down them nearly as easy as regular transports. While they are nearly impossible to hit with poor BS armies.

The death from the skies rules seem sort of interesting for fliers. The "Leaving combat airspace" rule means that you can go off the board and come back on a 3+ next turn. That really stops the stupidness of instant border death. It is not without risk, as if you are off at the end of the game you die.

As someone that has 5 valkyries / vendettas, 2 thunderbolt conversions, and one avenger conversion. I am not happy.

Vendettas seeming to get squatted does kind of suck, but I'm still hoping Forge World brings them back later. Valkyries might be at the best they've ever been with the change to how grav-chutes work though, I think they're one of the best transports in the game now, maybe even the best.

Also Valkyries/Vendettas still have hover mode, so they can just ignore flyer rules and pretend to be a skimmer.

 Peregrine wrote:
Flyers are broken in so many ways, and a strong reason not to play 8th.

if there was a negative exalt button I'd use it here. really, what's the point?

After reading all the rules and theorycrafting im not impressed by fliers.

Easier to hit and more difficult to manouver. I forsee a lot of big infantry armies which make them even more difficult to maneuver.

 ross-128 wrote:
Vendettas seeming to get squatted...

There are two missing pages just after the valkyrie. So there is hope. Otherwise, FW will definitely release rules.

I think it's a good thing fliers are hittable by shooting. it's frustrating both (a) going up against someone who brings fliers when you don't have a solid answer and (b) having flying units you don't want to use, because no one has a good answer.

Personally, when I saw this I felt swindled by GW. One ed, you can't buy nothing but flyrants if you want to win, next ed flyrants become sh*t: easy to hit, more difficult to move and shoot. So, I all I have now are useless tons of flyrants and mawlocs (who got also nerfed). So, I'm not going to do what GW wants. If they don't fix them early, I'll have to play fanmade. 9th age was way better than AOS, and so I expect from fanmade codices and 8th ed.

SwarmHead wrote:
Personally, when I saw this I felt swindled by GW. One ed, you can't buy nothing but flyrants if you want to win, next ed flyrants become sh*t: easy to hit, more difficult to move and shoot. So, I all I have now are useless tons of flyrants and mawlocs (who got also nerfed). So, I'm not going to do what GW wants. If they don't fix them early, I'll have to play fanmade. 9th age was way better than AOS, and so I expect from fanmade codices and 8th ed.

Fickle is the path of optimal meta...

Seriously though, that is a shame. I wouldn't be too quick to judge. I haven't read the Tyranid rules, but is it possible the units went from outstandin to mid-level, instead of trash-tier? It is hard to tell what changes mean when everything else in the game has also moved around. Just because something got worse, if everything else got _more_ worse, then it really went up.

Do Flyrants even have a minimum move? I would have expected them to get the same treatment as the Heldrake, where it's basically a skimmer with 30" or so of movement.

 ross-128 wrote:
Do Flyrants even have a minimum move? I would have expected them to get the same treatment as the Heldrake, where it's basically a skimmer with 30" or so of movement.

They do not.

 Shadelkan wrote:

It doesn't actually say how LOS works in what's been leaked so far, and there's nothing I've read about vehicles specifically that brings importance to facing. As such, until I read otherwise, I'm going to think it's okay to shoot any weapons from any direction.

Actually there is. Its in the shooting phase rules under 2. choose targets: "In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within the range of the weapon being used and be visible to the shooting model. If unsure, stoop down and get a look from behind the shooting model to see if any part of the target is visible."

So my interpretation is that you can only shoot at targets in the front arc. Flyers are the only unit type where it matters because you cannot pivot or turn on the spot as all other models can.

 Peregrine wrote:
Flyers are broken in so many ways, and a strong reason not to play 8th.

I generally trust your ability of analysis, and "I have a bad feeling about this" myself, but I think is really premature.

 Trickstick wrote:
Fickle is the path of optimal meta...

Seriously though, that is a shame. I wouldn't be too quick to judge. I haven't read the Tyranid rules, but is it possible the units went from outstandin to mid-level, instead of trash-tier? It is hard to tell what changes mean when everything else in the game has also moved around. Just because something got worse, if everything else got _more_ worse, then it really went up.

Flyrants... maybe they are mid-level (which is anyway a shame because it was the ONLY really good unit nids had 7th ed). Mawloc is now trash-tier for sure. I cried when I saw its rules. It's like GW took its old ability, shred them into pieces, and then took the most useless of those pieces and called it a special rule.




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 ross-128 wrote:
Do Flyrants even have a minimum move? I would have expected them to get the same treatment as the Heldrake, where it's basically a skimmer with 30" or so of movement.

No, but their maximum is 16" anyway, which is way below other flyers.

Anon052 wrote:

 Shadelkan wrote:

It doesn't actually say how LOS works in what's been leaked so far, and there's nothing I've read about vehicles specifically that brings importance to facing. As such, until I read otherwise, I'm going to think it's okay to shoot any weapons from any direction.

Actually there is. Its in the shooting phase rules under 2. choose targets: "In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within the range of the weapon being used and be visible to the shooting model. If unsure, stoop down and get a look from behind the shooting model to see if any part of the target is visible."

So my interpretation is that you can only shoot at targets in the front arc. Flyers are the only unit type where it matters because you cannot pivot or turn on the spot as all other models can.

Yeah... that's not enough. Something is missing. I noticed theres no clear definition for things like infantry, monsters, vehicles, etc. I'm fairly certain that will be revealed. Otherwise, how do you resolve the storm raven with their turret and sponsons? Front arc only, despite being able to see in all directions? There's definitely something missing.

 Shadelkan wrote:
Yeah... that's not enough. Something is missing. I noticed theres no clear definition for things like infantry, monsters, vehicles, etc. I'm fairly certain that will be revealed. Otherwise, how do you resolve the storm raven with their turret and sponsons? Front arc only, despite being able to see in all directions? There's definitely something missing.

There are no arcs anymore, you can just shoot where you like. If you look at the death from the skies rules, then arcs come in to play during the "dogfighting phase", but those rules are only for DftS missions anyway.

Flyers are a lot easier to hit, that is for certain.

They have more wounds, but I suspect they will get killed easy. However, at this point, I am expecting everything is getting dead fast - so it will be about target priority and distracting your opponent (you know, smart play kind of stuff...).

Speaking of smart play - I have three trygons/who are also magged to be mawlocs.......and mawlocs they will be!

See if you can figure it out....

The complete lack of any fire arcs for vehicles is beyond stupid. Why would they even force flyers to play the 90 degree angle game if it literally doesn't matter most of the time. In 7th, flyers had fire arcs, often very restrictive ones, there actually was some maneuvering involved to get targers within weapon arc. Do we all not remember the heldrake going from hull mounted to turret to hull again for the baleflamer? The less said about how the heldrake works now in 8th the better.

 Peregrine wrote:
Flyers are broken in so many ways, and a strong reason not to play 8th.

Seemingly all vehicles are broken when all that's required to fire literally all your weapons is exposing like 1% of your hull.

No arcs, no facing, no LoS from weapon or models eyes. Enjoy eating a flyers full payload from its tail perpendicular to your unit near them ruins.

On the topic of flyers, it seems like even jet fighters are deployed on the board with the rest of your army? Is it just me, or does that seem insanely dumb??

 son_of_osiris wrote:
On the topic of flyers, it seems like even jet fighters are deployed on the board with the rest of your army? Is it just me, or does that seem insanely dumb??

What, you don't like automatic turn-1 charges from across the table?

 son_of_osiris wrote:
On the topic of flyers, it seems like even jet fighters are deployed on the board with the rest of your army? Is it just me, or does that seem insanely dumb??

People wanted Flyers in 40k, now we have flyers in 40k.

 son_of_osiris wrote:
On the topic of flyers, it seems like even jet fighters are deployed on the board with the rest of your army? Is it just me, or does that seem insanely dumb??

It's not just you, it is incredibly ill conceived. Like after seeing the heldrake I'm just sorta shaking my head. I do feel flyers should have to start in reserve. I think the other ill conceived aspect is being able to take a detachmet of 3 flyers that have nothing in common with your faction. IE whichever flyers turn out to be the winners IE best efficacy for point cost, just become auto take for every other faction.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 son_of_osiris wrote:
On the topic of flyers, it seems like even jet fighters are deployed on the board with the rest of your army? Is it just me, or does that seem insanely dumb??

It's not just you, it is incredibly ill conceived. Like after seeing the heldrake I'm just sorta shaking my head. I do feel flyers should have to start in reserve.

To be Honest I think how the Helldrake behaves now is how it should always been. You see him in all of their artwork and his more a dragon than a aeroplane.



He land everytime and destroy other flying units in meele.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 son_of_osiris wrote:
I think the other ill conceived aspect is being able to take a detachmet of 3 flyers that have nothing in common with your faction. IE whichever flyers turn out to be the winners IE best efficacy for point cost, just become auto take for every other faction.

In Matched play, your army need to have a cohesive Faction Keyword in all of your detachments. So you can't have Tau with Eldar, or Tyranids with Imperium, etc...

If you have a Imperium army you can only take Detachments with at minimun the imperium keyword.

 son_of_osiris wrote:
On the topic of flyers, it seems like even jet fighters are deployed on the board with the rest of your army? Is it just me, or does that seem insanely dumb??

You can chose to reserve stuff, so it's not the end of the world.