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Can someone explain to me what GW was thinking with the new grey Knights? Am I missing something, or were they nerfed into oblivion? Why would you ever play grey Knights when their terminators cost more than custodians and their power armored guys cost almost as much or more than vanilla marine terminators?

Because they're an army of psykers, all wielding force weapons and most can deep strike...?

And Custodes do not cost less than SM Terminators.

 Jaxler wrote:
Can someone explain to me what GW was thinking with the new grey Knights? Am I missing something, or were they nerfed into oblivion? Why would you ever play grey Knights when their terminators cost more than custodians and their power armored guys cost almost as much or more than vanilla marine terminators?

Have you accounted for prizes of both units gear?

 Vryce wrote:
Because they're an army of psykers, all wielding force weapons and most can deep strike...?

And Custodes do not cost less than SM Terminators.

They cost less than grey knight terminator, which are now 44 points.

Grey Knights lost T1 deep strike, their smite is low range, and most the models have 1 attack base with their force weapons.

I can't seem to find the Custodes' leaked rules.

Is this based on the current Custodes' point cost or their 8th point cost? Because if the Custodes' rules haven't come out yet then they might get price hikes too.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I can't seem to find the Custodes' leaked rules.

Is this based on the current Custodes' point cost or their 8th point cost? Because if the Custodes' rules haven't come out yet then they might get price hikes too.

Same, I've been looking all over and can't seem to find them

 Aetare wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I can't seem to find the Custodes' leaked rules.

Is this based on the current Custodes' point cost or their 8th point cost? Because if the Custodes' rules haven't come out yet then they might get price hikes too.

Same, I've been looking all over and can't seem to find them

They're in the Imperial Book 2. Go to the News and Rumors thread. The compendium for every faction is in there in the 640's page range.

OP doesn't seem to be adding equip costs. Custodians are definitely more expensive when you put those in.

 Jaxler wrote:

 Vryce wrote:
Because they're an army of psykers, all wielding force weapons and most can deep strike...?

And Custodes do not cost less than SM Terminators.

They cost less than grey knight terminator, which are now 44 points.

Grey Knights lost T1 deep strike, their smite is low range, and most the models have 1 attack base with their force weapons.

The stupid subtly of 8th is that you have to pay for ALL wargear, even if it's included on the profile.

For example. A meganob is equipped with a power klaw and kustom shoota. In the book, he is 25 points. Quite a steal! But a power klaw is 25, and the shoota is 4. So that 25 point meganob is actually 54 points.

Did you take into account wargear options for the custodes and terminators?

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
Can someone explain to me what GW was thinking with the new grey Knights? Am I missing something, or were they nerfed into oblivion? Why would you ever play grey Knights when their terminators cost more than custodians and their power armored guys cost almost as much or more than vanilla marine terminators?

Have you accounted for prizes of both units gear?

Vanilla marine terminators come with the same load out save for a better weapon in that they've a power fist. We are literally paying almost twice as much for a psychic power, and nerfed smite.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:

 Vryce wrote:
Because they're an army of psykers, all wielding force weapons and most can deep strike...?

And Custodes do not cost less than SM Terminators.

They cost less than grey knight terminator, which are now 44 points.

Grey Knights lost T1 deep strike, their smite is low range, and most the models have 1 attack base with their force weapons.

The stupid subtly of 8th is that you have to pay for ALL wargear, even if it's included on the profile.

For example. A meganob is equipped with a power klaw and kustom shoota. In the book, he is 25 points. Quite a steal! But a power klaw is 25, and the shoota is 4. So that 25 point meganob is actually 54 points.

Did you take into account wargear options for the custodes and terminators?

You got me there, the spear costs 12 points. That being said, they can take a knife and still cost only 1 point less than a grey knight terminator.

The cost of a Strike Squad PAGK costs 19 points base. His storm bolter costs 2 points and if he doesn't take a fancy weapon, his Force Weapon costs 0. This comes to 21 points for a PAGK.

A vanilla Terminator comes with a Power Fist (20) and a Storm Bolter (2). The wargear alone for a Terminator costs more than a PAGK. And a vanilla Terminator costs 26 points base with no wargear, so they actually come to 48 points, just over twice the cost of a PAGK.

A Grey Knight Terminator costs 44 points base, gets it's force weapon for free, and pays 2 for a storm bolter. So they're actually cheaper by 2 points (46 for the GK vs 48 for the vanilla) than a vanilla terminator.

Okay, you guys have explained this to me and now I understand. I'm actually far less spooked now that I realize the pointsvalues are before upgrades and base weapons.

I think there is going to be a LOT of confusion on this topic. It is very counterintuitive. Not to mention cumbersome for models that have multiple compulsory wargear options.

custodians cost 40 points, spear is 12 points, sword/board 14 (5 spears as cheapest option 260)

sm tac terminator 26 assault 31 power fist 20 storm bolter 2, thuinder hammer 25 ss 5 lightning claws 13 (5x tacs w/ pf and storm bolter 240)

gk termies 44 points storm bolter 2 points most of their force weapons are free though as opposed to the power fist at 20 points (5 w/e free force weapons 230)

meaning that kitted with weapons the greyknights are actually cheaper than tac marines and both are cheaper than custodies as we also now know that +1 t is much less of a big deal than it was in 7th

Wow GK terminators are a pretty great deal.

I presume that the Sergeant of a Terminator Squad will have a Power Sword rather than a Power Fist, which would lower his point costs by 16.

This means that a basic squad of 5 vanilla Terminators comes to around 224 points, while a GK squad of terminators (who all have the same wargear) comes to 230 points.

The difference in those 6 points is the variety of rules and psychic powers GKs get along with all their melee weapons being Force Weapons.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I presume that the Sergeant of a Terminator Squad will have a Power Sword rather than a Power Fist, which would lower his point costs by 16.

This means that a basic squad of 5 vanilla Terminators comes to around 224 points, while a GK squad of terminators (who all have the same wargear) comes to 230 points.

The difference in those 6 points is the variety of rules and psychic powers GKs get along with all their melee weapons being Force Weapons.

maybe in codex, but for now it is just what you want. technically you could it seems run terminatrs with 5 power swords and no storm bolters.

scratch that says they need 4 power fists if you have to follow the squad entry

I haven't seen the datasheet yet. The point cost index isn't there to mix and match stuff; it's suppose to be used with the datasheet's options.

However considering every edition of the game and the model all have the sergeant with a power sword, it's safe to assume that's his base equipment when they do show his unit's sheet.

 Jaxler wrote:

 Vryce wrote:
Because they're an army of psykers, all wielding force weapons and most can deep strike...?

And Custodes do not cost less than SM Terminators.

They cost less than grey knight terminator, which are now 44 points.

Grey Knights lost T1 deep strike, their smite is low range, and most the models have 1 attack base with their force weapons.

Reserves work starting turn 1. So if you can deep strike you can do it then.

And Grey Knights may only swing once, but every single one of their weapons in melee is D3 damage. Low number of wounding rolls for high damage out put.

Also, are you confusing the base price of a model for the cost of a model plus its wargear?