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So if my model only has a 5++ as its best save and is in cover what is it save now ?

Cover only modifies your armor save. Invulnerable saves can't be modified and are individual from armor saves; before you roll you decide which of the two you want to take.

So a unit with a - sv and a 5++ that is also in cover doesn't get a 4+ sv ( with cover) and a 5++ ?

 oldzoggy wrote:
So a unit with a - sv and a 5++ that is also in cover doesn't get a 4+ sv ( with cover) and a 5++ ?

Nope, cover just modifies your armor save now, it does not work as a separate save any more.

I'm not exactly sure how -sv works, but I think in cover it becomes 6+ (you add one to your save).

So you would have a 6+ armor save and a 5++. You would basically always want to take the 5++ with that unit.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
So a unit with a - sv and a 5++ that is also in cover doesn't get a 4+ sv ( with cover) and a 5++ ?

Nope, cover just modifies your armor save now, it does not work as a separate save any more.

Let me clarify my example. You would always have a 5+ sv with this unit due to invul 5++, to cover ads +1sv so you get a 4+ sv if not reduced by armour piercing stuff

Armour saves can be modified. Cover adds to the save, while -ap takes away from a save. Think of invulnerable saves as a seperate save, that you can always take at whatever number is specified on the profile. It cannot be modified in any way. If it is better than the modified armour save, then you take that instead.

Say for example, you have a marine with a 3+ armour save and a 5++ invuln save. He is shot at by a gauss flayer, which has an ap value of -1. His armour save will go from a 3+ to a 4+, so you would still use the armour save as it is still better than 5+.

Now imagine that same marine is in cover. He will benefit from the +1 that the cover grants, so now his save is 2+. The same necron warrior shoots at him with his ap-1 flayer, his save is now 3+ which is still better than 5++ so he will use his normal save. But against any weapon without an ap modifier, he will have his 2+ save (as good as a terminator!!).

But say he is shot at by a heavy gauss cannon, which has a profile with ap-4. When he is not in cover, his save goes from a 3+ to no save at all, so he will have to use his 5++ invulnerable save. When he is in cover, his 2+ save goes to a 6+ save. But his invulnerable save is still 5++ so he can use that instead.

 oldzoggy wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
So a unit with a - sv and a 5++ that is also in cover doesn't get a 4+ sv ( with cover) and a 5++ ?

Nope, cover just modifies your armor save now, it does not work as a separate save any more.

Let me clarify my example. You would always have a 5+ sv with this unit due to invul 5++, to cover ads +1sv so you get a 4+ sv if not reduced by armour piercing stuff

Nope, invulnerable saves can't be modified. Only armor saves can be. So a model with -sv and 5++ doesn't have an armor save at all, it only has an invulnerable save that can never change.

Wow so the new cover save system is really crappy for low armour armies that only have a invul save. Such as deamons, orks and dark eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Space Marine in cover save goes up from 1/3th to 1/6th failure chance but blood letters and boyz in a KFF bubble are getting no benefit at all. This seems a bit odd if you ask me.

Yeah, cover is really of no benefit to models like that. But having an invulnerable save is nothing to be ashamed of now that everything is based on save modifiers. A Space Marine can easily be reduced to a 6+ or lower save, but a model with a 5++ never can.