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 Roknar wrote:

Also, to be clear. You can include <totally DG> units and it will have very little to no effect on your army performance on the table top. That's not my issue. This shouldn't have been a thing in the first place is what I'm saying. There was nothing to be gained by removing these units from a deathguard list at this point in time that they couldn't have done with the release of the DG codex.

Are you serious? People would complain that options were being removed then instead of now.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

Also, to be clear. You can include <totally DG> units and it will have very little to no effect on your army performance on the table top. That's not my issue. This shouldn't have been a thing in the first place is what I'm saying. There was nothing to be gained by removing these units from a deathguard list at this point in time that they couldn't have done with the release of the DG codex.

Are you serious? People would complain that options were being removed then instead of now.

The difference being that you then actually have units to replace those you lost. Right now the restrictions are based on units you are going to get soon as opposed to what you actually have access to.

You have access to them all with the Chaos keyword.
Stop fighting the keyword in the index. By doing it this way, they dont invalidate the index, but give us the proper units in the codex.
You want stop gap rules, even though you already have them.
If your Terminators are painted as Death Guard, then they are Death Guard. Be a proud son of Mortarion, and stop getting caught up in the keyword Death Guard which doesn't do anything except alter your perception on what is Death Guard in your army

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why is Sabre just ignoring that the Death Guard codex is coming out soon?

Has that actually been confirmed? Not model leaks, which may get rules in a campaign supplement, actual evidence of a DG/CSM/legion codex?

Anyone notice that all the Plague marine models in the death guard announcement video aren't the models that are included with the Plague marine unit in the new box set. Go ahead. Go watch the video and look at the pics and try and match them up. I'm thinking mutlipart plague marine kits coming soon?

I also just want to say that a year ago I promised myself that I wouldn't buy any new codexs because all the rumors of 8th. Then Traitor legions came out and I just had to, Papa Nurgle just could not be denied... then this... Feels like a waste of money.

The Death Guard RoW - The Reaping - allows for Legion Veterans and Legion Heavy Support squads to be taken as non-compulsory Troops choices - the 40k equivalent of those is Chosen and Havocs, both of which we have suddenly lost access to.

Really? Huh interesting retcon than, I really should look into the 30k rules to see what else has changed.

SilverAlien wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why is Sabre just ignoring that the Death Guard codex is coming out soon?

Has that actually been confirmed? Not model leaks, which may get rules in a campaign supplement, actual evidence of a DG/CSM/legion codex?

While it's not evidence, it is widely accepted that we will be getting one, even ignoring the rumors saying we are.
Here is why:
A) Mortarion has been teased by GW for a while, plus the leaked model from 6ish months ago. He isn't in the index.

B) leaked terminators, not in index.

C) GW stated new factions at launch. Death Guard is one of them yet we are not fleshed out yet, so we are due for it.

D) new artwork of Ultramar sector getting attacked features all of the new models in starter set, plus some extra stuff we haven't seen yet. This might just be artistic license to add some cool stuff, but could be a hint at what is yet to come.

E) Recent previous releases show we probably will be getting fully fleshed out units aka thousand sons release. With new codices on the way, this makes sense to place them all in the DG one.

 Rippy wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why is Sabre just ignoring that the Death Guard codex is coming out soon?

Has that actually been confirmed? Not model leaks, which may get rules in a campaign supplement, actual evidence of a DG/CSM/legion codex?

While it's not evidence, it is widely accepted that we will be getting one, even ignoring the rumors saying we are.
Here is why:
A) Mortarion has been teased by GW for a while, plus the leaked model from 6ish months ago. He isn't in the index.

B) leaked terminators, not in index.

C) GW stated new factions at launch. Death Guard is one of them yet we are not fleshed out yet, so we are due for it.

D) new artwork of Ultramar sector getting attacked features all of the new models in starter set, plus some extra stuff we haven't seen yet. This might just be artistic license to add some cool stuff, but could be a hint at what is yet to come.

E) Recent previous releases show we probably will be getting fully fleshed out units aka thousand sons release. With new codices on the way, this makes sense to place them all in the DG one.

in short GW hasn't come out and said it, but you don't need to be sherlock holmes to draw the deduction of a death guard codex coming soon. the only QUESTION is if it'll come before, after or along side, space marines (or Primaris Marines)

I mean, everything you said would still apply if we just got the two models in a campaign book. We'd even still be a "new" faction without the codex. Two more units would very much be within the bounds of a campaign book.

BrianDavion wrote:


in short GW hasn't come out and said it, but you don't need to be sherlock holmes to draw the deduction of a death guard codex coming soon. the only QUESTION is if it'll come before, after or along side, space marines (or Primaris Marines)

Yeah, I wonder if they will do Primaris releases first and then DG.

I won't be purchasing the index either way, I am waiting for the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:
I mean, everything you said would still apply if we just got the two models in a campaign book. We'd even still be a "new" faction without the codex. Two more units would very much be within the bounds of a campaign book.

You really think they will be putting Mortarion only in a campaign book? And Terminators too?

Either way, we will have them in our army in the short term.

 Rippy wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


in short GW hasn't come out and said it, but you don't need to be sherlock holmes to draw the deduction of a death guard codex coming soon. the only QUESTION is if it'll come before, after or along side, space marines (or Primaris Marines)

Yeah, I wonder if they will do Primaris releases first and then DG.

I won't be purchasing the index either way, I am waiting for the codex.

my gut feeling is they'll do a bit of both over a multiweek period. so week 1 will be "multipart kits of the boxed set" week 2 will be "typhus, DG termies and the Primiarus dread," week 3: the primaris tank and morty with the codex dropping in week 3.

just for example

 Rippy wrote:
You really think they will be putting Mortarion only in a campaign book? And Terminators too?

Either way, we will have them in our army in the short term.

I want you to think about every illogical and nonsensical decision we've seen GW make. Really think about it.

Would that even make the top 10?

SilverAlien wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
You really think they will be putting Mortarion only in a campaign book? And Terminators too?

Either way, we will have them in our army in the short term.

I want you to think about every illogical and nonsensical decision we've seen GW make. Really think about it.

Would that even make the top 10?

.. yes.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
You really think they will be putting Mortarion only in a campaign book? And Terminators too?

Either way, we will have them in our army in the short term.

I want you to think about every illogical and nonsensical decision we've seen GW make. Really think about it.

Would that even make the top 10?

You didn't answer my question?

 Rippy wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
You really think they will be putting Mortarion only in a campaign book? And Terminators too?

Either way, we will have them in our army in the short term.

I want you to think about every illogical and nonsensical decision we've seen GW make. Really think about it.

Would that even make the top 10?

You didn't answer my question?

Well yes rather clearly I think it wouldn't be a stretch for our primarch to get tucked away in a side book, with any actual codex coming further down the line. It'd be dumb, but that's not new.

SilverAlien wrote:


Well yes rather clearly I think it wouldn't be a stretch for our primarch to get tucked away in a side book, with any actual codex coming further down the line. It'd be dumb, but that's not new.

My point was more about how they could literally do anything with the release, but there is no point in talking about the really unlikely things they could do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moving on,

This the is the picture I was talking about earlier:



Hopefully we see these cute dudes as a release:




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Great Unclean ones hopefully shows what is in store for our Death Guard doods as well

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why is Sabre just ignoring that the Death Guard codex is coming out soon?

Do you have a date?

Are we talking soon as in 3 months time or two weeks?

Is it actually a Codex and not an AoS-style campaign supplement which may include one or two datasheets? Do you have confirmation on that?

The teased Mortarion. Then showed us a Primaris style dreadnought and grav tank. Hmmm. I think that's a solid indication of who's getting first attentions, don't you?

Why are you ignoring Roknar's point - which is quite bloody solid - no matter how soon (or supposedly soon) our release actually is not including 'stopgap' units in a 'stopgap' Index list is bloody moronic. Going by the popular counter argument of 'HUR HUR WELL ONCE THE DG CODEX HITS NO ONE WILL USE THE LIST' - which I have seen used against us a few times, I would like to point out you're shooting your own counter in the foot.

Hell, I've seen the counter argument of 'Oh, maybe it's because Terminators are too OP with Death Guard bubble effects' - so, what, you're perfectly fine telling me we'll be getting T5 Disgustingly Resilient Terminators who will benefit from them but T4 non DR Terminators- just way too OP? Really now?

I had someone try to state it was like Space Wolves.

Except when you switched from RT to 2nd edition and had your Codex come out you could still use all your gak. You didn't suddenly not have units - and your new units were virtually identical in almost every way save the odd heavy weapon. That's not a comparison at all.

Anyone else want to say 'Oh, you can have Pepsi instead' or some equivalent? Or do people just like ignoring a red flag and crossing their fingers?

Roknar has actually been spot on. The issue is - they should never have omitted them in the first place. If the list is a stop gap then including them wouldn't have mattered. If the new book is indeed that close then including them in a stop gap list...wouldn't have mattered. It's such an odd bizarre choice that was made.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rippy wrote:

If your Terminators are painted as Death Guard, then they are Death Guard. Be a proud son of Mortarion, and stop getting caught up in the keyword Death Guard which doesn't do anything except alter your perception on what is Death Guard in your army

And allow you to benefit from the bubble effects of Typhus, the Lord of Contagion and the Noxious Blightbringer. Oh, and benefit from the effect of Miasma of Pestilence. Oh, an benefit from the bubbles of your Death Guard Chaos Lords and Daemon Princes.

I'm sure having one part of our army causing mortal wounds, being able to advance further on average and being harder to hit, with some rerolls to hit while the other parts get nothing unless we take additional Pepsi character taxes is doing nothing. Right?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why is Sabre just ignoring that the Death Guard codex is coming out soon?

Do you have a date?

Are we talking soon as in 3 months time or two weeks?

You are still ignoring his question, it is coming.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Is it actually a Codex and not an AoS-style campaign supplement which may include one or two datasheets? Do you have confirmation on that?

GW have confirmed that codices are coming. Even if not, a campaign supplement would achieve the same thing, so what is the big deal?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Why are you ignoring Roknar's point - which is quite bloody solid - no matter how soon (or supposedly soon) our release actually is not including 'stopgap' units in a 'stopgap' Index list is bloody moronic. Going by the popular counter argument of 'HUR HUR WELL ONCE THE DG CODEX HITS NO ONE WILL USE THE LIST' - which I have seen used against us a few times, I would like to point out you're shooting your own counter in the foot.

And why are you ignoring my points:
1. You can take them as a stop gap, nothing is stopping you.
2. It is hardly shooting own counter in the foot. GW don't have Plague Terminator models yet, so we didn't get rules. We got standard terminators to take in the list, and will get rules for our new models when they are coming.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Hell, I've seen the counter argument of 'Oh, maybe it's because Terminators are too OP with Death Guard bubble effects' - so, what, you're perfectly fine telling me we'll be getting T5 Disgustingly Resilient Terminators who will benefit from them but T4 non DR Terminators- just way too OP? Really now?

Yeah okay this point is kind of dumb when written like this, but you are missing the point, those terminators WOULD be OP at the same points level. If DG terminators come out all powerful, we will pay more points for that. Gone are the days where we just get more powerful terminators for no reason just because they are marked DG. You want stronger units, you pay for them. Yes I know we had to pay Mark of Nurgle, but that won't cut it for this edition, each unit has it's own points crafted.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Roknar has actually been spot on. The issue is - they should never have omitted them in the first place. If the list is a stop gap then including them wouldn't have mattered. If the new book is indeed that close then including them in a stop gap list...wouldn't have mattered. It's such an odd bizarre choice that was made.

I covered this above, but they were hardly going to release fully fleshed out lists for every single faction upon release. To ask that would be to have this released in 2020, the amount of work that goes in to it.
We have stop gap rules now.
We can take terminators now.
We can use all of our old models now.
YES your unfluffy units will probably be left behind (looking at you bikes). But you want a Death Guard army, you should have a Death Guard army not the strongest stuff rules wise that doesn't make sense.

I am really confused about this anger.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

If your Terminators are painted as Death Guard, then they are Death Guard. Be a proud son of Mortarion, and stop getting caught up in the keyword Death Guard which doesn't do anything except alter your perception on what is Death Guard in your army

And allow you to benefit from the bubble effects of Typhus, the Lord of Contagion and the Noxious Blightbringer. Oh, and benefit from the effect of Miasma of Pestilence. Oh, an benefit from the bubbles of your Death Guard Chaos Lords and Daemon Princes.

I'm sure having one part of our army causing mortal wounds, being able to advance further on average and being harder to hit, with some rerolls to hit while the other parts get nothing unless we take additional Pepsi character taxes is doing nothing. Right?

So you are missing out on three effects while waiting for a codex? This is a small price to pay for what we are about to get. See my other points about why they didn't just let us mark everything now.

 Rippy wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why is Sabre just ignoring that the Death Guard codex is coming out soon?

Do you have a date?

Are we talking soon as in 3 months time or two weeks?

You are still ignoring his question, it is coming.

Actually, I'm not. I'm making the point of the fact we don't have a confirmed date. We've seen teaser images from GW 3-4 months in advance with regards to other releases. We saw images from DI 3-4 months ago yet not hide nor hair of certain units teased then. There have been adverts in White Dwarf of products never released in the past. And to be perfectly honest, we have no timescale. The point of a stop gap is to cover a gap. Why force one player to have an artificially weaker army during the gap when you literally have an approach designed to counter this?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Is it actually a Codex and not an AoS-style campaign supplement which may include one or two datasheets? Do you have confirmation on that?

GW have confirmed that codices are coming. Even if not, a campaign supplement would achieve the same thing, so what is the big deal?

Well, for one a supplement is likely to have far less crunch in it than a codex. For the other, a campaign supplement is likely to be a chunk more expensive - compare the AoS equivalents to the Battletomes and make the same WUTFACE I have.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Why are you ignoring Roknar's point - which is quite bloody solid - no matter how soon (or supposedly soon) our release actually is not including 'stopgap' units in a 'stopgap' Index list is bloody moronic. Going by the popular counter argument of 'HUR HUR WELL ONCE THE DG CODEX HITS NO ONE WILL USE THE LIST' - which I have seen used against us a few times, I would like to point out you're shooting your own counter in the foot.

And why are you ignoring my points:
1. You can take them as a stop gap, nothing is stopping you.
2. It is hardly shooting own counter in the foot. GW don't have Plague Terminator models yet, so we didn't get rules. We got standard terminators to take in the list, and will get rules for our new models when they are coming.

Ok, here's where I pick this apart.

1. I have already covered why the lack of interaction between Unit X and Y is penalising us even further. That is stopping us.
2. That is contrary to the reassurances that 'our Terminators will be fine'. And that is even more worrying - remember the Thousand Sons? Who suddenly got told HAHAA you have to have Power Swords? In the range where over the past 30 odd years we have literally had TWO Chaos Terminator arms with power swords? So what you ended up with was a bunch of a Thousand Sons players being told - HAHAA BUY THE NEW KITS. Oh boy. I cannot wait for that approach. The more GW step toward the positive - with teasers, more open releases and more information - the more they step backwards with the BUY THE NEW SHINY approach. That's part of what made the past 2 editions so very bad for Chaos - Codex Helldrakes and Dinobots.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Hell, I've seen the counter argument of 'Oh, maybe it's because Terminators are too OP with Death Guard bubble effects' - so, what, you're perfectly fine telling me we'll be getting T5 Disgustingly Resilient Terminators who will benefit from them but T4 non DR Terminators- just way too OP? Really now?

Yeah okay this point is kind of dumb when written like this, but you are missing the point, those terminators WOULD be OP at the same points level. If DG terminators come out all powerful, we will pay more points for that. Gone are the days where we just get more powerful terminators for no reason just because they are marked DG. You want stronger units, you pay for them. Yes I know we had to pay Mark of Nurgle, but that won't cut it for this edition, each unit has it's own points crafted.

And yet allowing half a dozen different units that didn't have access to them, including close combat specialists is perfectly fine in the case of Blood Angels and jump packs? Complete with the Jump Pack Assault rule? There's a glaring inconsistency there.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Roknar has actually been spot on. The issue is - they should never have omitted them in the first place. If the list is a stop gap then including them wouldn't have mattered. If the new book is indeed that close then including them in a stop gap list...wouldn't have mattered. It's such an odd bizarre choice that was made.

I covered this above, but they were hardly going to release fully fleshed out lists for every single faction upon release. To ask that would be to have this released in 2020, the amount of work that goes in to it.
We have stop gap rules now.
We can take terminators now.
We can use all of our old models now.
YES your unfluffy units will probably be left behind (looking at you bikes). But you want a Death Guard army, you should have a Death Guard army not the strongest stuff rules wise that doesn't make sense.

I covered this above. Ah, I see you editted. I love your quip about 'my' unfluffy units - really? You're going to try and throw that at me? Please note, my issues have never been the absence of Bikes or Raptors. But the absence of Chosen, Havocs and Terminators. I love the fact we've had people come in and try to state Death Guard were never Terminator heavy - like, no, go back and read Index Astartes Death Guard - the first article where we got a proper focus as a seperate Legion and not just bundled in with CSM. You'll even find the Terminator focus was present then as well.

I am really confused about this anger.

It's more frustration. Frustration about visible red flags that people are content to stick their head in the sands about thinking everything will be fine. People believing in Soon - oh, rumours say Soon so they must be right. Rumours also said plastic Thunderhawks. Remember those few days after FW stopped producing them where everyone was hyped to all hell...then FW release a NEW version of the Thunderhawk? Oh boy, were our faces red.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

If your Terminators are painted as Death Guard, then they are Death Guard. Be a proud son of Mortarion, and stop getting caught up in the keyword Death Guard which doesn't do anything except alter your perception on what is Death Guard in your army

And allow you to benefit from the bubble effects of Typhus, the Lord of Contagion and the Noxious Blightbringer. Oh, and benefit from the effect of Miasma of Pestilence. Oh, an benefit from the bubbles of your Death Guard Chaos Lords and Daemon Princes.

I'm sure having one part of our army causing mortal wounds, being able to advance further on average and being harder to hit, with some rerolls to hit while the other parts get nothing unless we take additional Pepsi character taxes is doing nothing. Right?

So you are missing out on three effects while waiting for a codex? This is a small price to pay for what we are about to get. See my other points about why they didn't just let us mark everything now.

Way to miss Roknar's points about 'stop gaps'.
Way to miss my points about the uncertain date - 2 weeks, 3 months, 4th ed Codex Orks style 6 months. We don't know!

The point is - there should never have been said price in the first place. The nature of a stop gap - same as the 3rd ed rulebook lists, same as Ravening Hordes for 6th ed WFB - is to allow people to use the same armies, with the same benefits until proper books come out.

No other stop gap has removed options based on us getting things that we don't have yet or even have dates for yet.

That's a lot of blind faith you're pouring into GW.

We're definitely getting a Codex! - even BrianDavion is uncertain about that. He's the first one to mention a campaign supplement. Wouldn't that be a kicker, huh? And normally I don't see eye to eye with him. Hell, have him ignored for that reason.

We're definitely getting Plague Terminators! - GW have had a number of instances where a model is shown at Games Day, in a White Dwarf advert or in a teaser and never gets released. We never saw a squad of Terminators. We saw a single Terminator. The Chaos Terminator Lord kit in 5th was meant to have an upgrade sprue with God-specific bits on it - that never made it to production. Hell, at Games Day they were showing a 3-up scale mold for those bits - and when asked if they were ever coming out...they honestly thought they already had. So I don't even pour faith into seeing something like that in a teaser.

As I have stated, my concern is quite simply what it means for those 3 specific units to suddenly go missing without a peep. It's a red flag. And I for one will not be pleased when we get Scarab Occult'd into a fixed layout when we've not had that in any edition. Hell, it was a rub to Thousand Sons who DID have a fixed layout - but the range meant they were taking Power Axes and Mauls - just to get universally shafted into Swords.

I guess we will disagree then, there is no point in going around in circles again. I will state that my edit only fixed the wording of one part, never changed the meaning anywhere, though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plague Hulk of Nurgle is on the Forge World list!!!

 Rippy wrote:
I guess we will disagree then, there is no point in going around in circles again. I will state that my edit only fixed the wording of one part, never changed the meaning anywhere, though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plague Hulk of Nurgle is on the Forge World list!!!

There's a lot of interesting things on the FW list.

The 30k Daemon Lords.
The Xiphon.
The Mastodon.
The LR Proteus.
The Scorpius.
The Deredo.

But does anyone know wtf a Hellwright or Dark Abeyant is? I'm suspecting it might be Dark Mechanicus to allow us to use This chap. Hell, his mount is described as an abeyant....

Yeah, even Plague Toads and Pox riders from Fantasy

Apart from units that haven't been released yet I wouldn't expect to get anything else. Khorne Daemonkin had csm units missing from it, not counting cult units that wouldn't had made sense. Thousand Sons have legion specific terminators so I'm willing to trust the rumors there, and it would be silly to have an Hq choice in terminator armor but no terminator units. I could also see not getting chosen because our "vets" are the shiny new dudes. The fluff they just put out mentions using close range firepower and I could see them saying that means no havocs.

Not saying I agree with not getting certain units, just showing that there is a chance we could never get them because of a fluff direction GW has chosen to take.

There is no counting on it, but there is always hope

There is also no reason for generic characters to have NO options.

This is 100% because those are the only models for it. I bet everything in the starter set will have more options going forward.

 Leth wrote:
There is also no reason for generic characters to have NO options.

This is 100% because those are the only models for it. I bet everything in the starter set will have more options going forward.

I would not make that assumption or count on that to any degree. Did cultists ever get options beyond autoguns, shotgun for only the leader and flamer and stubber? Surely they could have expanded options, but they don't have models, so GW won't do it. Hell, they dont even give options for the FW cultist models. They are only going to have rules for what they can sell. They will absolutely not leave room for 3rd party companies to make accessories or conversion kits for anything GW produces. That we can count on 100%.

People saying we will have a DG codex are basing this on nothing but blind optimism. We have nothing concrete to base that on. I would say it is much more likely we will get a campaign book that has rules for the 3 kits we know are coming; Mortarian, Terminators and then the plaguemarines kit. 3 plastic kits won't warrant a full codex, and since they won't have models made for nurgle havocs, nurgle chosen, nurgle obliterators or any other units they've removed, we won't get them.

GW still has the new index books to sell, and they won't make those redundant after just a few months. I expect we'll get a primaris codex by fall and no other 40k Codexes until next year and they will continue to sell rules for new models through campaign books like they have for the last couple of years. This is also what they did for the first year of AOS.

And before anyone wants to retort with some more wishful thinking, I want to make it clear I'm not some GW hater that constantly posts negativity about GW. I'm very much a fan of most of the things they have done and are doing. I'm very excited about 8th edition and will continue to play Death Guard in whatever form they take, as I have for the last 10+ years. But don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining; losing all the options we had from Traitor Legions sucks ass. Anyone trying to say otherwise or saying they know with any certain that we will be getting any of those options back, is pulling that out of their ass. We don't know anything for certain, and claiming that we will be getting it all back goes against GWs release strategy of the last several years and points more towards sub factions being much more narrowly focused. This is largely how armies in AOS are, and the all signs point towards them continuing that trend in New 40k. They want us to collect all the brand new units they release, and they design subfactions specifically around those new unit releases. Yea, you can ally and make it work, but you don't get the synergy by doing so, and is basically just a way to prevent riots by elimnating large swaths of people's existing armies wholesale. See the Primaris rollout as an example.

So I was curious enough about what death guard might be getting in the future to find the old legion rules from 3rd(?) edition. I was admittedly surprised by a few things. It made our index make a little more sense though, at least more so than HH did. In fact it is pretty obvious they did a copy paste of the old DG army list.

No heavy weapons on normal CSM/havocs. This one surprised me, largely because they HH sources give them a lot of rules for toxic/poisoned/rad missile launchers as well as the grenade version. So a decent toss up if we will get heavy weapon havocs of any type back (though we should get special weapon ones regardless). So this is why we only have plague marines, because giving us CSM/Havocs/Chosen would've meant including a line about "no heavy weapons". Terminator's with heavy weapons were fine though, so we will likely get some sort of autocannon variant, much as the already reveled plaguespitter is a heavy flamer variant.

We don't get vindicators because CSM didn't have vindicators back then. Yes they really did port our army list that directly it seems. Though they let us keep spawn and helbrute, I'm assuming because someone decided those were the equivalent of daemonic beasts and chaos dreadnought. This is also why we lack access to the newer daemonic engines, only keeping the defiler. They literally pulled our old 3rd edition army list, gave us the closest equivalent of all previous units (ignoring havocs and terminators/chosen), and called it a day.

We also lost bolt pistols on plague marines because 3rd edition plague marines could only get CC weapon and their choice of a bolt pistol or bolter. However, they also got true grit back then, so maybe we will get to fire our bolters in close combat?

So our index is literally a conversion of the 3rd edition death guard list, with a couple of omissions for the presumably incoming chosen/terminator equivalent, and the new units added on top. So at least we now have a (lazy and kinda bad) reason for the choices they made and at least they are drawing from what most chaos players agree is the best codex CSM ever had. Assuming that the laziness is due to an incoming DG codex, this does bode well.

 Starfarer wrote:

 Leth wrote:
There is also no reason for generic characters to have NO options.

This is 100% because those are the only models for it. I bet everything in the starter set will have more options going forward.

I would not make that assumption or count on that to any degree. Did cultists ever get options beyond autoguns, shotgun for only the leader and flamer and stubber? Surely they could have expanded options, but they don't have models, so GW won't do it. Hell, they dont even give options for the FW cultist models. They are only going to have rules for what they can sell. They will absolutely not leave room for 3rd party companies to make accessories or conversion kits for anything GW produces. That we can count on 100%.

People saying we will have a DG codex are basing this on nothing but blind optimism. We have nothing concrete to base that on. I would say it is much more likely we will get a campaign book that has rules for the 3 kits we know are coming; Mortarian, Terminators and then the plaguemarines kit. 3 plastic kits won't warrant a full codex, and since they won't have models made for nurgle havocs, nurgle chosen, nurgle obliterators or any other units they've removed, we won't get them.

GW still has the new index books to sell, and they won't make those redundant after just a few months. I expect we'll get a primaris codex by fall and no other 40k Codexes until next year and they will continue to sell rules for new models through campaign books like they have for the last couple of years. This is also what they did for the first year of AOS.

And before anyone wants to retort with some more wishful thinking, I want to make it clear I'm not some GW hater that constantly posts negativity about GW. I'm very much a fan of most of the things they have done and are doing. I'm very excited about 8th edition and will continue to play Death Guard in whatever form they take, as I have for the last 10+ years. But don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining; losing all the options we had from Traitor Legions sucks ass. Anyone trying to say otherwise or saying they know with any certain that we will be getting any of those options back, is pulling that out of their ass. We don't know anything for certain, and claiming that we will be getting it all back goes against GWs release strategy of the last several years and points more towards sub factions being much more narrowly focused. This is largely how armies in AOS are, and the all signs point towards them continuing that trend in New 40k. They want us to collect all the brand new units they release, and they design subfactions specifically around those new unit releases. Yea, you can ally and make it work, but you don't get the synergy by doing so, and is basically just a way to prevent riots by elimnating large swaths of people's existing armies wholesale. See the Primaris rollout as an example.

Well for starters we already know the primaris have units that are not in the index. We know death guard are getting units not in the index. The generic characters are currently limited to what is in the starter set, however I highly doubt it will remain as such. We already know from the dark imperium novel that the units we have seen have additional kit out options in the books. We already know that there are plastic nurgle terminators and nurgle marine kits coming that will problably have their own name like the scarab occult terminators.

Once again I am not saying 100% that this will happen, it just seems like the most likely option and quite frankly this is better than you pissing in my cereal before I get to even enjoy it it.

MadMartigan805 wrote:
Anyone notice that all the Plague marine models in the death guard announcement video aren't the models that are included with the Plague marine unit in the new box set. Go ahead. Go watch the video and look at the pics and try and match them up. I'm thinking mutlipart plague marine kits coming soon?

I also just want to say that a year ago I promised myself that I wouldn't buy any new codexs because all the rumors of 8th. Then Traitor legions came out and I just had to, Papa Nurgle just could not be denied... then this... Feels like a waste of money.

This was my first though once the "Dark Imperium" boxset contents were revealed. Literally all the plague marines in that teaser video (except for the Noxcious Blightbringer) were from a soon-to-come multi part plastic kit. All of these are not from the starter:


I'd also like to note that there are a few Nurgle creatures in this which don't currently have models.



As Rippy noted the plague toad seen in the bottom left, as well as what looks to me like a greater demon of Nurgle fighting on the ridge on either side of the column. Lastly there are a few bloat flies without riders which seem much chunkier than the plague drones we currently have. As GW doesn't make art for sets unless they exist, and because every other creature/marine in that picture is accurately drawn to look like the model down to the tiniest detail, the reasonable conclusion is that we should also expect to see 1) Nurgle Dino's (toads), 2) Nurgle Greater Demon of some sort 3) Larger bloat flies

I can't wait for the codex/larger release! Luckily I'll be busy painting the starter set marines until then.

Also from the Frontline Gaming live Q&A they said that "Death Guard are one of the weakest armies for now" (emphasis is mine), so hopefully we get some extra tools to be decent in the near future :(
At least the gap between the best and worst units is a lot smaller in 8th than in 7th from what we have seen and what they have been saying.