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 Galas wrote:
The Reiver is some kind of stealt-armoured Primaris with skull-helmets specialized in mele assasination.

I don't think thats anything to do with "Reavers"

The reavers from forgeworld even have an "assassin's eye" special rule ^_-. Their specialization was killing leaders and otherwise weak foes like you would see a pack of wolves or lions or whatever.
Sound familiar? I mean the unit probably has nothing to do with the heresy legion but you have to admit, that's suspiciously similar. Even down to the name. And also melee based of course.
Although I hope they're not actually called reivers...That's a pretty ridiculous name.

From how they (reavers) read, they are pretty much to the sons of horus what berzerkers are to world eaters., plague marines to DG and so on.
Becoming the black legion may have shifted much of that to possessed, but if I were to think non possessed, I'd think whatever the 4k equivalent of justaerin and these guys would be for legion/faction specific units, which I think GW is going for in general.

 War Kitten wrote:
So, as someone who's considering a CSM army (possibly with a Nurgle theme) is there any good news? I'm seeing LOTS of doom and gloom here

Lots of good news:
*Beautiful models on the way
*Codex on the way
*Mortarion on the way

It's the internet, don't let their negativity become yours.

I've never played Chaos Marines of any flavor (started in 3rd and my last game was 5th). I have 2 word bearer tac squads, 2 termie squads, a dread all from the board games they've been releasing over the past 2 years.

Would it be possible to use those models plus what comes in the starter to play DG or at least a semi-decent chaos marine force from what folks have seen of the new indexes?

Yes... and no. GW's looking like they're gonna be moving towards making death guard, 1ksons world eaters and emperor's children sort of their own armies. but you'll certainly be able to run a force together as heretic astartes/chaos.
just that your death guard HQs won't 100% synergize with the other chaos stuff 100%

but you'll be able to run them together in a legal list no problem

BrianDavion wrote:
Yes... and no. GW's looking like they're gonna be moving towards making death guard, 1ksons world eaters and emperor's children sort of their own armies. but you'll certainly be able to run a force together as heretic astartes/chaos.
just that your death guard HQs won't 100% synergize with the other chaos stuff 100%

but you'll be able to run them together in a legal list no problem

This and in the future you will miss out on additional synergy bonuses from their codices once they are released, IE, can't get the Death Guard bonus X from the Codex.

But we don't know what they are yet, and if they will be worth taking.

At least the models are gorgeous

I wonder if this will amount to anything, both of the DG models in front of these vehicles are in the starter. The one with the plasma in the back, other one with maw face in front. Also remember the bloat drone thing was shown in the cartoon teaser way before any art or other images of it surfaced.

So what do we think these vehicles are?

They seem to have a ram/shield in the front, but I can't see any guns

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So what do we think these vehicles are?

They seem to have a ram/shield in the front, but I can't see any guns

One of them looks like what you'd imagine a vindicator looks like if it was Nurglified.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So what do we think these vehicles are?

They seem to have a ram/shield in the front, but I can't see any guns

One of them looks like what you'd imagine a vindicator looks like if it was Nurglified.

I see what you mean but I still don't see a barrel

Perhaps their armored transports

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So what do we think these vehicles are?

They seem to have a ram/shield in the front, but I can't see any guns

I see one with a turret on top. that said I could definatly see them being some sort of nurgleified vindicator analogue, being to a vindicatgor what the plaguereaper is to a baneblade

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So what do we think these vehicles are?

They seem to have a ram/shield in the front, but I can't see any guns

Maybe a transport, support vehicle...hard to tell. I would like to see more stuff about the destroyer hive though. Like if it had destroyer hive husks on top that just spewed demon flies attacking any units within a certain range.

 Thargrim wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So what do we think these vehicles are?

They seem to have a ram/shield in the front, but I can't see any guns

Maybe a transport, support vehicle...hard to tell. I would like to see more stuff about the destroyer hive though. Like if it had destroyer hive husks on top that just spewed demon flies attacking any units within a certain range.

Now THAT, would be amazing

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So what do we think these vehicles are?

They seem to have a ram/shield in the front, but I can't see any guns

Maybe a transport, support vehicle...hard to tell. I would like to see more stuff about the destroyer hive though. Like if it had destroyer hive husks on top that just spewed demon flies attacking any units within a certain range.

Now THAT, would be amazing

one appers to have a turret on top, the other does not, my gut feeling is it's gonna be a duel kit.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
So what do we think these vehicles are?

They seem to have a ram/shield in the front, but I can't see any guns

Maybe a transport, support vehicle...hard to tell. I would like to see more stuff about the destroyer hive though. Like if it had destroyer hive husks on top that just spewed demon flies attacking any units within a certain range.

Now THAT, would be amazing

one appers to have a turret on top, the other does not, my gut feeling is it's gonna be a duel kit.

I'm inclined to agree after taking a closer look (went from phone to computer), that gun also looks like it's flanked by chimneys

Bring on the Nurgle tanks!

So i took out my entire CSM collection today for inventory and it just so happens that I painted up my Havocs and Terminators in pre-heresy Death Guard colors [because I have an infatuation with White Primer], and all the other units the dull green and browns of Plague marines.

Then it occured to me: The pre-heresy painted ones arent official (Plague) Death Guard anymore! They're <Pre-heresy DG> that didn't get sick.

My army still kinda makes sense with the keyword limitations, and I have a little fluff justification for using them. The moral is, we can all 'Forge the Narrative' in little ways to fill gaps the Index has left.

Wont lie i am a little bummed about the fact that plague marines are weaker than they were but ill still be fielding them in hordes. im keen on trying some pox walkers and typhus

Primaris are going to get a lot of new miniatures. Surely with cool rules or, minimum, hard to kill because the 2w and some of them with +1T.


Doont even expect same treatment for chaos hahaha. Just look what we actually have: poxwallers are bad as hell for how much they cost (unless they cost 4 pts no one will use them). The new drones are bad, since the flammers they use are a bit meh. And the plague marines are worst and more expensive than intercessor.

As several mates said, PM are weaker now. But still they cost a lot (more than a Primaris.... Funny). By the moment is the most suboptimal "cult Marine".

When you are a chaos player you end learning to never expect something cool from GW.

And when they did with traitor legions, giving legion rules, equip, new magic, lists.... all were a lie that they erased 6 months later. Just for fun. Giving hopes just to break them (if someone saw Bleach, GW was like Gin when told to Rukia that he could save her from execution)

 War Kitten wrote:
So, as someone who's considering a CSM army (possibly with a Nurgle theme) is there any good news? I'm seeing LOTS of doom and gloom here

Until we get more definitive answers on whether we are getting a Codex (i.e. not a campaign release) and what is in it...we've got a strange list with strange restrictions.

The positive at the moment is that faction keywords are pretty much meaningless unless you're AdMech - annoying, potentially risky as you probably shouldn't get used to using X if we're not going to get X and in some cases dumb.

A lot of the gripe is the fact that having to take Pepsi Death Guard as a seperate faction really rubs on some of us - when my whole army is pretty much in a unified sort of scheme it's really fething annoying having to then go - but actually they're not, haHAA!

Had a good old sit down with my stuff - found my army overall in points from 7th ed has shrunk down from about 7.5k to 6.3k - units have gotten cheaper and the absence of relics means characters are generally cheaper across the board as well. Got a busy few weeks ahead of me - for a 1500 point tournament I've got to base things, finish my Daemon Prince off and then get the Blightbringer and Poxwalkers from Dark Imperium done for the Saturday after.

List is pretty much looking as follows...

Typhus
Fabius Bile
Winged Daemon Prince (not Death Guard) - Hellforged Sword

10 Poxwalkers
10 Poxwalkers
7 Plague Marines with Powerfist Champion and 2 Meltaguns

Rhino

7 Terminators - 2 with paired Lightning Claws, 1 Single Lightning Claw, 1 Chainfist, 1 Powerfist, 1 Power Maul, 1 Power Axe, 2 Combi-Flamers, 1 Heavy Flamer, 2 Combi-bolters, Icon of Despair
Noxious Blightbringer

5 Raptors - Power Sword champion, Plasma gun
2 Chaos Spawn

Plan is very simple.

Death Guard blob advances together - during those first few turns Fabby Bill buffs up the Poxwalkers and Plague Marines

Thinking...turn 2/3...Raptors and Terminators deep strike in. Let Typhus and his blobs charge, set up following turn's charge from the teleporting murderblobs. Winged Prince is non Death Guard so his buffs can be applied to the Raptors and Terminators - figure he's also fast enough to get into position - so I'll probably deep strike them around him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm of the personal opinion that Fabius Bile is an absolute steal against most armies, especially if you bubblewrap him properly.

The only risk are sniper units and even then, D3 wounds a turn.

The fact his buffing ability is now one unit per turn and it goes off Heretic Astartes and Infantry keywords gives him a much bigger range of things he can buff - it now includes things like Terminators and Possessed.

Half tempted to get a few odd units just to make a giant Fabby Bill Buff Bubble army.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Fabius Bile is an absolute steal against most armies

Saw this and thought, "wow, GW does have a way of bringing back the past." How many years has it been since Fabius Bile was useful? I know I used him in 5th edition, but it's been so long...

Good thoughts. He could actually be useful and his buffs come cheap. It's almost like he increases the usefulness of a squad by a power level each turn he does it.

What is the deal with the Chirurgeon? It says he heals d3 wounds. Is that just for him, or can the wounds be applied to another model?

 techsoldaten wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Fabius Bile is an absolute steal against most armies

Saw this and thought, "wow, GW does have a way of bringing back the past." How many years has it been since Fabius Bile was useful? I know I used him in 5th edition, but it's been so long...

Good thoughts. He could actually be useful and his buffs come cheap. It's almost like he increases the usefulness of a squad by a power level each turn he does it.

What is the deal with the Chirurgeon? It says he heals d3 wounds. Is that just for him, or can the wounds be applied to another model?

I'd say it's only for him, otherwise he'd be really really good

Since they didn't include the Vindi in the list of units DG is allowed to take aside from fluff saying it was basically the only vehicle we took, I really hope these new tanks will be a thing.
Just like Termis. And maybe we are lucky and the actual PM set includes a variant that can use 4special weapons to replace the havocs/chosen. All of these will have great names of course, like obnoxious blightspreaders (termis), corroded vomitbarragers (vindi) and diseased bloatwardens (chosen).

Btw we have to close this thread as we reached page 7. Nurgle is pleased, move on.

Dovis wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Fabius Bile is an absolute steal against most armies

Saw this and thought, "wow, GW does have a way of bringing back the past." How many years has it been since Fabius Bile was useful? I know I used him in 5th edition, but it's been so long...

Good thoughts. He could actually be useful and his buffs come cheap. It's almost like he increases the usefulness of a squad by a power level each turn he does it.

What is the deal with the Chirurgeon? It says he heals d3 wounds. Is that just for him, or can the wounds be applied to another model?

I'd say it's only for him, otherwise he'd be really really good

Only for him - his compensation for lacking an Invulnerable save and and not being able to catch a ride.

However, he does have 6 attacks as S5 with the Rod. He gets the charge and he can bop an enemy character damn quick.

Yeah I'm going to go ahead and agree with franarok, don't expect the same number of releases for DG as primaris. Expect maybe half (and we will be lucky to get that).

If the codex doesn't have some big changes our army is garbage tbh. At this point DG releases exist mostly to show how much better the primaris releases are by comparison.

SilverAlien wrote:
Yeah I'm going to go ahead and agree with franarok, don't expect the same number of releases for DG as primaris. Expect maybe half (and we will be lucky to get that).

If the codex doesn't have some big changes our army is garbage tbh. At this point DG releases exist mostly to show how much better the primaris releases are by comparison.

Yep. A whole lot of red flags were raised with what they chopped out of our list.

Beginning to wonder if we should have secretly plotted to get a Death Guard player onto the rules or Codex design team years ago to have avoided the great cull that we got

And actually - this mirrors AoS.

Notice that Khorne Bloodbound have pretty much gotten nothing new release wise where Stormcasts have gotten half a dozen unit types and more?

SilverAlien wrote:
Yeah I'm going to go ahead and agree with franarok, don't expect the same number of releases for DG as primaris. Expect maybe half (and we will be lucky to get that).

If the codex doesn't have some big changes our army is garbage tbh. At this point DG releases exist mostly to show how much better the primaris releases are by comparison.

This....totally agree.

I get the feeling that since we can be pretty sure of 2-3 different things.

That multi leg thing that was teased and we see in the art. The terminators we have already seen, and the vehicle(probably a duel kit) that we see in the art as well. Hopefully it will cover all of the bases.

I know its kinda annoying not having these things on our list. I converted up Nurgle Oblits from the FW kits, and have Nurgle Rhino doors. However I will remain causiously optimistic until we get our codex. I am betting that Primaris and Deathguard are going to be the first two out the gate hopefully in early july.

Either way I understand people are upset about what we have to work with, I would just caution optimism. GW has been doing pretty good work overall and once the rules drop and we see everything in context we might have a better view.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Notice that Khorne Bloodbound have pretty much gotten nothing new release wise where Stormcasts have gotten half a dozen unit types and more?

Nothing except a new book with tons of new rules...

Khorne Bloodbound also had a whole lot of models ported over from Warhammer Fantasy, and started with a bunch more kits that were relatively new for their previous Warriors of Chaos book from just a year and a half (ish) prior or the End Times. Stormcast were an entirely new faction everything they have only existing and being released during Age of Sigmar. Yes, they have not got as much support since release, but they had plenty early on and got some carry-overs from an older army, not to mention that they are now included in the Blades of Khorne book (basically Khorne Daemonkin).

Not counting the Starter Set or the little boxes of a few models, here's how the Stormcast and Bloodbound compare on kits and Warscrolls:

Stormcast Eternals
- total unique kits:
- Units - 9
- Heroes - 12
across 29 Warscrolls

Khorne Bloodbound on its own
- total unique kits:
- Units - 4
- Heroes - 10
across 16 Warscrolls

Blades of Khorne
- total unique kits:
- Units - 7.5
- Heroes - 16.5
across 27 Warscrolls

Withe their inclusion into the book with Daemons, the Bloodbound were expanded into a larger army. The same thing was done with Tzeentch recently for AoS, and both also include options for some Monster of Chaos and Slaves to Darkness (the rest of the Warriors of Chaos models from Warhammer Fantasy) options to be included in those armies without losing army-wide rules.

I hope the new Death Guard get plenty of support myself, as I want to start a Death Guard army as much as a Primaris Marine army, at least a Nurgle Marine army if nothing else! With any luck, Death Guard and other Nurgle mortal units will get some releases and support in the coming months.

With any luck, in July

How much hope do people really put into GW doing the Death Guard justice?

If we go by what is already in front of us...Bloat Drone is meh...Plague Marines are meh....Pox Walkers cost are silly compared to equivalents....stupidly removed units.... etc. etc.

Not saying it cant be fixed, but from the start the outlook more bleak than hopeful.

I just reminds of PC games...developers hype it up, release it not up to the hype, fanboys defend it with statements about "It will be patched and THEN be great", and so on. Sometimes it works out...some times it does not.

Proof is in the pudding. People can speculate on what "MIGHT" happen, but you can evaluate what is here now...and whats here now is unimpressive.