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I've been converting and painting a Bringers of Decay army, it seems like now I'll only be able to take benefits from either Black Legion or Death Guard. Haven't marks gone for marines? or have I missed something.

Previously I would run Black Legion rules with no specific formation, allowing me to take terminators and chosen as troops and the mark of nurgle.

It seems Death Guard have their own formation inherent in the Legion rules for 8th.
I know this is pure speculation, wondering if there's any other Black Legion sub factions people run also thinking the same thing?

I was fully expecting 2 wound possessed, basically making them the traitor wulfen. Finally a reason to pick up some gal vorbak models. The tormented formation just wasn't cutting it with all the drawbacks possessed had. Now? I like these possessed even less than the default 6th randumb version. Hounds of abbaddon are kinda meh too in that only the zerkers are really worth it. The lord sucks with just the default weapons and all the non zerkers are just normal marines painted red.
I won't be picking up the game until we get a proper chaos codex and I fear that means waiting until we get undivided books/models so probabaly no sooner then a a couple of years.

I can imagine rippy as a seething tower of bitterness, driven to melancholy by the recent death guard events. He tries to convince himself everything is ok by telling everyone else everything is ok. Maybe he one day will believe it himself.

In the meantime! I say fudge death guard! Lets make our own nurgle legion with normal "keyword marked" chaos space marines of nurgle. It will be called... guards of death. Sure they wont have +1 toughness or disghustingly recilient, but they will be cheap and not suck. Remember you will only be fudged if you play death guard, everything else is fine!

Well, I can have a PM squad with 3 plasma guns - what do I need chosen and havocs for?
Also Typhus spreading the best gifts of Nurgle we ever had. He looks like an auto-include to me.
Spawns having DS-2 could finally make them kill something and not just be a transport for the lord.

Vaxx wrote:If we go by what is already in front of us...Bloat Drone is meh...Plague Marines are meh....Pox Walkers cost are silly compared to equivalents....stupidly removed units.... etc. etc.

Proof is in the pudding. People can speculate on what "MIGHT" happen, but you can evaluate what is here now...and whats here now is unimpressive.

You'll find lots of people that disagree about everything you've said here. But clearly they're just "fan boys", obviously, no one could think otherwise and be anything else. I can imagine this point of view makes it much easier to dismiss those pesky opinions that don't match your own, doesn't it? How's the sound in the echo chamber?

FudgeDumper wrote:I can imagine rippy as a seething tower of bitterness, driven to melancholy by the recent death guard events. He tries to convince himself everything is ok by telling everyone else everything is ok. Maybe he one day will believe it himself.

Hmm...

FudgeDumper - Joined 2017-05-16, 22 posts
Rippy - Joined 2013-02-14, 2895 posts

Yeah, he's probably got no idea what he's talking about... pillar of the community, proven knowledge and competency...

Ohh, I see - you just joined Dakka last month, to post nothing but garbage about the new edition! Try not to denigrate your betters while you're here. And don't let the door hit you on the way out next month!

In today's Vox-Cast, they said they worked on the starter set armies and "the Expansions that come on them as well"
This is a solid hint that they are close, and if they are releasing new units soon, hopefully we get a codex soon to contain those rules

I'll be honest. I'll let GW take away half of my Tau roster if they give me in return a model release so big of Tau Axiliares as the Death Guard is receiving

I am on the upset side of things. I have 4 plague marines with Meltaguns that are now irrelevant. Also 4 bikes all heavily customized. Obliterates, mutilators, vindicators, etc.

This coupled with the fact that my Legion rules were only out for 6 months makes me upset. Also, I play khorn darmonkin and they are gone as well.

Not happy.

 Jambles wrote:

Vaxx wrote:If we go by what is already in front of us...Bloat Drone is meh...Plague Marines are meh....Pox Walkers cost are silly compared to equivalents....stupidly removed units.... etc. etc.

Proof is in the pudding. People can speculate on what "MIGHT" happen, but you can evaluate what is here now...and whats here now is unimpressive.

You'll find lots of people that disagree about everything you've said here. But clearly they're just "fan boys", obviously, no one could think otherwise and be anything else. I can imagine this point of view makes it much easier to dismiss those pesky opinions that don't match your own, doesn't it? How's the sound in the echo chamber?

FudgeDumper wrote:I can imagine rippy as a seething tower of bitterness, driven to melancholy by the recent death guard events. He tries to convince himself everything is ok by telling everyone else everything is ok. Maybe he one day will believe it himself.

Hmm...

FudgeDumper - Joined 2017-05-16, 22 posts
Rippy - Joined 2013-02-14, 2895 posts

Yeah, he's probably got no idea what he's talking about... pillar of the community, proven knowledge and competency...

Ohh, I see - you just joined Dakka last month, to post nothing but garbage about the new edition! Try not to denigrate your betters while you're here. And don't let the door hit you on the way out next month!

I find your attitude mildly comedic. You don't feel rippys behaviour is in the least suspicious? You speak of pillar of the community, and I agree. That is why we have to save rippy. Its obvious he has fallen victim for the old nostalgia trap and he now see everything GW makes through magenta ocular garments.

It is our duty as fellow gamers to make him realize the new death guard are pure trash, and will be for the entire edition. The sooner he realize this, the sooner he can start to mourn and move on.

Galas wrote:I'll be honest. I'll let GW take away half of my Tau roster if they give me in return a model release so big of Tau Axiliares as the Death Guard is receiving

Get out of here with your perspective! This is kneejerk land, you filthy casual!

sennacherib wrote:I am on the upset side of things. I have 4 plague marines with Meltaguns that are now irrelevant.

They aren't though.

sennacherib wrote:Also 4 bikes all heavily customized. Obliterates, mutilators, vindicators, etc.

You can still play those, too.

sennacherib wrote:This coupled with the fact that my Legion rules were only out for 6 months makes me upset.

There wasn't a single army book that didn't get invalidated by the new edition. There are several other factions that came out even more recently than that.

Also, I play khorn darmonkin and they are gone as well.
Not happy.

They aren't though. I think you have several fundamental misunderstandings about the nature of the new rules, the new army lists, and the way this all works now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FudgeDumper wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

Vaxx wrote:If we go by what is already in front of us...Bloat Drone is meh...Plague Marines are meh....Pox Walkers cost are silly compared to equivalents....stupidly removed units.... etc. etc.

Proof is in the pudding. People can speculate on what "MIGHT" happen, but you can evaluate what is here now...and whats here now is unimpressive.

You'll find lots of people that disagree about everything you've said here. But clearly they're just "fan boys", obviously, no one could think otherwise and be anything else. I can imagine this point of view makes it much easier to dismiss those pesky opinions that don't match your own, doesn't it? How's the sound in the echo chamber?

FudgeDumper wrote:I can imagine rippy as a seething tower of bitterness, driven to melancholy by the recent death guard events. He tries to convince himself everything is ok by telling everyone else everything is ok. Maybe he one day will believe it himself.

Hmm...

FudgeDumper - Joined 2017-05-16, 22 posts
Rippy - Joined 2013-02-14, 2895 posts

Yeah, he's probably got no idea what he's talking about... pillar of the community, proven knowledge and competency...

Ohh, I see - you just joined Dakka last month, to post nothing but garbage about the new edition! Try not to denigrate your betters while you're here. And don't let the door hit you on the way out next month!

I find your attitude mildly comedic. You don't feel rippys behaviour is in the least suspicious? You speak of pillar of the community, and I agree. That is why we have to save rippy. Its obvious he has fallen victim for the old nostalgia trap and he now see everything GW makes through magenta ocular garments.

It is our duty as fellow gamers to make him realize the new death guard are pure trash, and will be for the entire edition. The sooner he realize this, the sooner he can start to mourn and move on.

Are you still here? Why?

FudgeDumper wrote:
.... the new death guard are pure trash, and will be for the entire edition. The sooner he realize this, the sooner he can start to mourn and move on.

And according to a bunch of other players, Tyranids and Necrons are the only armies that got better, while every other army got worse except for a few units.

It's a brand new edition, and until we have all got a few games under our collective belt, we won't know exactly how each army will play out.

 Rippy wrote:
In today's Vox-Cast, they said they worked on the starter set armies and "the Expansions that come on them as well"
This is a solid hint that they are close, and if they are releasing new units soon, hopefully we get a codex soon to contain those rules

Spoiler:

that's the alterntiove colour scheme. it's much more "nurglified" then the stuff on the box art we've seen of the plague marines. far less "cartoony"

FudgeDumper wrote:
I can imagine rippy as a seething tower of bitterness, driven to melancholy by the recent death guard events. He tries to convince himself everything is ok by telling everyone else everything is ok. Maybe he one day will believe it himself.

Well, that would be very Nurgle of me

BunkhouseBuster wrote:

FudgeDumper wrote:
.... the new death guard are pure trash, and will be for the entire edition. The sooner he realize this, the sooner he can start to mourn and move on.

And according to a bunch of other players, Tyranids and Necrons are the only armies that got better, while every other army got worse except for a few units.

It's a brand new edition, and until we have all got a few games under our collective belt, we won't know exactly how each army will play out.

Don't feed the trolls

BrianDavion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
In today's Vox-Cast, they said they worked on the starter set armies and "the Expansions that come on them as well"
This is a solid hint that they are close, and if they are releasing new units soon, hopefully we get a codex soon to contain those rules

Spoiler:

[img]

Spoiler:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GNGg2wNUAZE/WTlpduOHh1I/AAAAAAABQdI/qUzJAq0r3lg9IRjXWsywyGQGamHMigxpwCLcB/s1600/deathguard%2Bdreadnought%2B%25281%2529.jpg

[/img]

that's the alterntiove colour scheme. it's much more "nurglified" then the stuff on the box art we've seen of the plague marines. far less "cartoony"

But... m- muh outrage! What do I have to live for, if not pointing out that 40k is circling the drain because the guys on the cover of the starter box looked "too bright"?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
In today's Vox-Cast, they said they worked on the starter set armies and "the Expansions that come on them as well"
This is a solid hint that they are close, and if they are releasing new units soon, hopefully we get a codex soon to contain those rules

Spoiler:

that's the alterntiove colour scheme. it's much more "nurglified" then the stuff on the box art we've seen of the plague marines. far less "cartoony"

Nice kitbashes. I wasn't expecting to see the Forge World Nurgle Marine upgrade kit being used what with the Start Set models coming.

FudgeDumper wrote:

I find your attitude mildly comedic. You don't feel rippys behaviour is in the least suspicious? You speak of pillar of the community, and I agree. That is why we have to save rippy. Its obvious he has fallen victim for the old nostalgia trap and he now see everything GW makes through magenta ocular garments.

It is our duty as fellow gamers to make him realize the new death guard are pure trash, and will be for the entire edition. The sooner he realize this, the sooner he can start to mourn and move on.

I am genuinely excited to be a Death Guard player.
We are the focus at the moment in models AND fluff.
And if you follow my posting, I hardly shill for GW, I have spoken up about many things I don't like about new Warhammer, and the other new releases.

And yes, I am now excited that in the near future Death Guard will actually be fluffy, and not just the strongest units with a mark of Nurgle (aka bikes).

I am sorry you can't feel the happiness that I feel with the focus that Death Guard is getting at the moment, but how is it suspicious that I am excited for DG?

It is Rippy's time to be happy.
* Plague hulk of Nurgle is on the list
* Spartan assault tank is looking good (at least loyalist version)
* Mortarion is coming
* New terminators coming when I dont own any
* Lord of Contagion is beautiful
* Fluff books coming about DG vs Ultramarines (well more books if you believe the rumors)
* Typhus is amazing! I haven't had a battle without him

So excuse me for being happy.

Edit: I don't think I actually said anywhere that Death Guard will be great rules wise BTW, I haven't played yet so I can't really comment on that. Plus Reecius said DG are one of the weakest rules wise "FOR NOW". I will remain optimistic until after the codex drops.

The dude pointing in that picture, what kit is that?

I think a cool scheme for Death Guard would be a very marsh or swamp like theme.

Would go well with the greens

I honestly don't see why people don't like Plague Marines. The FNP equivalent isn't easy to just come by now, Blight Launchers and Plasma Guns are all excellent weapons and can be taken in good amounts, and they will be having further support coming up real quick.

My only problem is they don't have a Bolt Pistol for whatever reason.

I'm on the side of cautiously optimistic. Sure DG might not be super strong at launch, but it looks like Papa Nurgle is getting some love from GW soon. More models and rules are on the way, I'd wait for them before signing the DG's death warrant

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
The dude pointing in that picture, what kit is that?

I think a cool scheme for Death Guard would be a very marsh or swamp like theme.

Would go well with the greens

It's a conversion - looks to be using a Plaguebearer belly, an Assault Marine sergeant Power Fist and a Blood Angel Death Company chainsword arm.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
The dude pointing in that picture, what kit is that?

I think a cool scheme for Death Guard would be a very marsh or swamp like theme.

Would go well with the greens

It's a conversion - looks to be using a Plaguebearer belly, an Assault Marine sergeant Power Fist and a Blood Angel Death Company chainsword arm.

I see, well it's nicely done

I think the DG are in a good place. They are capable of focusing on either ranged or melee combat by going with either a Chaos Lord or an Apostle to reroll hits, and the Noxious Blightbringer adds a lot of movement (5 or 6 inchs over half the time) every turn. The Blight launcher is terrifying with its 39% wound ratio aginst T7-11 targets and 61% ratio against T6 targets, with 77% against T5 and 4 and a 95% against T3 models. Blight Launchers in a squad can average 2 wounds a turn against a T7-11 3+ models. Against more fragile targets like a Ghost Ark T6 4+ save you are looking at 4 wounds a turn from a single squad this means 3 squads have a real shot of taking a Ghost Ark down in a single turn. Its downfall is its range 24" which is mitigated quite an amonut by the Noxious Blightbringer, which is capable of getting your Blight Launchers in range by turn 3. The other problem is Blight Launchers dont handle hordes well, so a flamer will probably go a long way. Luckly the Plague Champion can bring a Combi-Flamer for cheap, remember you also have Blight Gernades which will do well against low T units. The plague sword is a deceptivly good, its worse aginst heavy vehicles, but amazing aginst horde units. The over all point cost of a unit like this is 145 not too bad for a unit that can handle ranged and melee hordes, can take out medium and light vehicles and finish off heavy vehicles in a pinch, with the proper support they can do these things well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FudgeDumper wrote:
It is our duty as fellow gamers to make him realize the new death guard are pure trash, and will be for the entire edition. The sooner he realize this, the sooner he can start to mourn and move on

New Death Guard are pure trash? That is an assertion that even under mild scrunity fails. They have Plague Marines. They have access to a weapon which is good to shoot at almost everything in the game. They have high durability. They have high damage output in melee combat. They come fairly cheap, and have access to movement, shooting, and CC buffs. If you want a melee focused PM army bring Apostles and Blightbringers rerolling to hit in CC and improved movement. Im not sure why you think DG are "trash" but losing access to specialized units only matters if you arent given access to new things that can fill that roll.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
I think the DG are in a good place. They are capable of focusing on either ranged or melee combat by going with either a Chaos Lord or an Apostle to reroll hits, and the Noxious Blightbringer adds a lot of movement (5 or 6 inchs over half the time) every turn. The Blight launcher is terrifying with its 39% wound ratio aginst T7-11 targets and 61% ratio against T6 targets, with 77% against T5 and 4 and a 95% against T3 models. Blight Launchers in a squad can average 2 wounds a turn against a T7-11 3+ models. Against more fragile targets like a Ghost Ark T6 4+ save you are looking at 4 wounds a turn from a single squad this means 3 squads have a real shot of taking a Ghost Ark down in a single turn. Its downfall is its range 24" which is mitigated quite an amonut by the Noxious Blightbringer, which is capable of getting your Blight Launchers in range by turn 3. The other problem is Blight Launchers dont handle hordes well, so a flamer will probably go a long way. Luckly the Plague Champion can bring a Combi-Flamer for cheap, remember you also have Blight Gernades which will do well against low T units. The plague sword is a deceptivly good, its worse aginst heavy vehicles, but amazing aginst horde units. The over all point cost of a unit like this is 145 not too bad for a unit that can handle ranged and melee hordes, can take out medium and light vehicles and finish off heavy vehicles in a pinch, with the proper support they can do these things well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FudgeDumper wrote:
It is our duty as fellow gamers to make him realize the new death guard are pure trash, and will be for the entire edition. The sooner he realize this, the sooner he can start to mourn and move on

New Death Guard are pure trash? That is an assertion that even under mild scrunity fails. They have access to a weapons that is good to shoot at almost everything in the game. They have high durability. They have high damage output in melee combat. They come fairly cheap, and have access to movement, shooting, and CC buffs. If you want a melee focused PM army bring Apostles and Blightbringers rerolling to hit in CC and improved movement. Im not sure why you think DG are "trash" but losing access to specialized units only matters if you arent given access to new things that can fill that roll.

I think they are in a good place too - I'm glad we got a specialty weapon for the DG finally, and that it's good! I'm hoping we will get an even heavier version for our terminators.
I've seen several people state that the bloat drone is trash.. but I don't see much evidence for it. A flying vehicle with better heavy flamers and a bunch of resilience for 158 pts. I think it's a good companion to the PM squads to help with anti-infantry, and at str 6 help with just about anything at that point.

The Bloat Blight Drone should be flanking your enemy, going against your enemy support and squishy troops that stay on the back. Is a movile unit in a army with very low movement. People call it thrash because they expect it to fly from the middle of the battle killing MEQ or TEQ or other vehicles.

But that isn't his objetive. He can be overpriced (I don't think he is as Overpriced as people like to say) but he has a niche to fill in the army.

Franarok wrote:
Primaris are going to get a lot of new miniatures. Surely with cool rules or, minimum, hard to kill because the 2w and some of them with +1T.


Doont even expect same treatment for chaos hahaha. Just look what we actually have: poxwallers are bad as hell for how much they cost (unless they cost 4 pts no one will use them). The new drones are bad, since the flammers they use are a bit meh. And the plague marines are worst and more expensive than intercessor.

As several mates said, PM are weaker now. But still they cost a lot (more than a Primaris.... Funny). By the moment is the most suboptimal "cult Marine".

When you are a chaos player you end learning to never expect something cool from GW.

And when they did with traitor legions, giving legion rules, equip, new magic, lists.... all were a lie that they erased 6 months later. Just for fun. Giving hopes just to break them (if someone saw Bleach, GW was like Gin when told to Rukia that he could save her from execution)

If you put Typhus near pox walkers and have a psyker who makes the opponent -1 to hit them and makes the enemy -1 to attacks, strength or toughness, pox walkers can slay.
A unit of over 10 will be hitting on 4's, with S4 and 2 attacks each and getting a model back for each infantry they kill. If the Psyker managed to make a T4 opponent -1 to their toughness, they're wounding them on 3's. With a 5++ essentially (no save but 5+ Disgustingly Resilient) I'd actually say they're pretty epic imo, they just need some love. I could see a horde of these guys being painful as they shamble through something like a guardsmen horde, getting models back constantly.

Plague drones have 2 flamers. So 2d6 auto-hits, S6, -1AP. That's pretty sweet if you have a pair of drones dishing out 4d6 autohits and with a pretty cool melee weapon.

Yeah I'm not too sure about Plague Marines. I agree they don't seem worth their points. TSons are better and cheaper. The T5 and Disgustingly Resilient is good, but I don't know if it's that good. Though the blight launcher looks pretty good.

And I think they took the legion abilities away for day one more because they couldn't fit it into a generic index codex, and will be putting it back into the real Chaos codex when it's released.

People need to understand that 8th is ALL about sinergyes. Poxwalkers are a unit that with a good use of buffs and debuffs can become much more powerfull that what they should be for 6 points.

A Black Templar Emperor's Champion is an example. Alone is a character killing machine. With sinergies from other Black Templar HQ? He can delete Roubote Guilliman in meele.

I think a lot of people are still using that 7th edition mind set of judging a model by its own merits alone. Sure, some units will be great by themselves, but some will need other models to be effective or better and that isn't a bad thing. It makes for a more varied list and could produce some fun and interesting combos once more keyword abilities are released. As of right now, I think the Typhus and poxwalker combo is going to be underrated and might surprise some folks.

CaptainSomas wrote:
I think a lot of people are still using that 7th edition mind set of judging a model by its own merits alone. Sure, some units will be great by themselves, but some will need other models to be effective or better and that isn't a bad thing. It makes for a more varied list and could produce some fun and interesting combos once more keyword abilities are released. As of right now, I think the Typhus and poxwalker combo is going to be underrated and might surprise some folks.

Well, early 6th, Typhus Zombie lists were very popular. It seems improved on now, and the fact you can still pull it without Typhus would be a godsend (nurgle?) back then too.

But now Typhus isnt even a tax, hes actually the best we can get at the moment.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Well, I can have a PM squad with 3 plasma guns - what do I need chosen and havocs for?

Well... it wouldn't be an issue if PM weren't kinda overpriced. I mean, you are paying 50% more points over a havoc for nothing close to a 50% increase in effectiveness (or even a 50% increase in just durability). This should be fixed whenever the updated point list comes out.

 Galas wrote:
People need to understand that 8th is ALL about sinergyes. Poxwalkers are a unit that with a good use of buffs and debuffs can become much more powerfull that what they should be for 6 points.

A Black Templar Emperor's Champion is an example. Alone is a character killing machine. With sinergies from other Black Templar HQ? He can delete Roubote Guilliman in meele.

No, what you are describing are imperial guard. Those are dirt cheap troops who are perfectly functional on their own thanks to the low price, plus they can have their firepower/mobility doubled, granted fearless/improved leadership, and generally be one of the most versatile units if given the chance.

Poxwalkers are overcosted garbage.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
The dude pointing in that picture, what kit is that?

I think a cool scheme for Death Guard would be a very marsh or swamp like theme.

Would go well with the greens

It's a conversion - looks to be using a Plaguebearer belly, an Assault Marine sergeant Power Fist and a Blood Angel Death Company chainsword arm.

I see, well it's nicely done

Also a sad example of what oversimplification does to beautiful things. Note the Plague Marine with a bolt pistol and chainsword