Death Guard Faction 8th Edition General - Feelings of index releases / Hopes / potential releases

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**Rippy**

Tiberius501 wrote:
With the new rumour of point changes coming in an update on release, do we think they'll be changing the cost of Plague Marines?

Highly possible, as Reecius has even stated that DG are one of the weakest off the bat.

**Franarok**

There are a rumor about point changes already? That sounds cool.

But knowing GW I can see how they keep PM as they are but increasing the price because reasons haha

**DarkStarSabre**

Tiberius501 wrote:
With the new rumour of point changes coming in an update on release, do we think they'll be changing the cost of Plague Marines?

Heck, the FAQ may even turn around and give us a bunch of options that they took away for those of us who are Death Guard purists. I'd be might happy to see an FAQ adding Chaos Terminators, Havocs and Chosen back in to Death Guard - especially if it's looking at August now before we get a book or anything...

**Rippy**

Where are you getting August from, DarkStarSabre? Or do you just mean it would be nice if they FAQ'd it if our codex is coming after July?

**Kangaxx**

Rippy wrote:
Where are you getting August from, DarkStarSabre? Or do you just mean it would be nice if they FAQ'd it if our codex is coming after July?

I think thats a consensus after the hint in WD '' they shall now not fear" that aims of a Primaris release for July.

Rippy, where do you get this balance at launch points information?

**SilverAlien**

Thargrim wrote:

Spoiler:

Another new one at the top back, and small details of even stranger looking ones behind him. I don't think these are characters, maybe plague marine chosen or something. Or standard plague marines will get a different datasheet in the codex to go with the mp kit. Most characters/hq tend to be either larger, or more flamboyant with flashy detail. Though I can just about make out a powerfist on the one to the left and the one on the right has a melee weapon in his left hand. The bare headed one has a plague sword.

The ones at the back left look like chosen to me, the one back center next to the blight bringer looks like another HQ/elite choice, or possibly an alternative blight bringer less crazy with the bells. Wouldn't mind getting something like an apothecary equivalent to boost our DR.

**DarkStarSabre**

Kangaxx wrote:
Rippy wrote:
Where are you getting August from, DarkStarSabre? Or do you just mean it would be nice if they FAQ'd it if our codex is coming after July?

I think thats a consensus after the hint in WD '' they shall now not fear" that aims of a Primaris release for July.

Rippy, where do you get this balance at launch points information?

^ PRetty much this.

The WD hint plus the fact they've willingly shown us a Primaris equivalent Dreadnought and Tank suggests we'll be seeing them first and DG late July-August at earliest.

**SilverAlien**

Also, has anyone mentioned the bit in the back might be a new fortification? It looks like it has some detail to it, I get the impression of a plague cauldron sort of vibe. I'm on my phone though, so more detail might make it obviously not that.

**Vaxx**

The more I see the DG models the more they bother me.

They are modeled well, but the clean paint jobs and over the top details just remind me of a villain and his henchmen out of a comic book and not really a grim dark army. So over exaggerated to the point of silliness.

The Pox Walkers are looking like a comic relief unit more than diseased zombies.

I know a more dark and gritty paint job will help....but it just does not look like Nurgle to me... I am going to hold out with my FW upgrades as long as a I can lol.

This is my opinion of course, if you like them thats great.

**Galas**

Pox Walkers aren't zombies. I think the idea behind them is for being proto-plague bearers.

Just look at them. Many appear to be crysalids, and to being torn appart from the inside for a Plaguebearer that is coming from inside them. Thats why they have all those horns and spikes.

Plus, Nurgle has always been the comical Chaos God. Thats what so good about him. He is "funny" and "sympathetic" but in reality is a mass of putrid zombies and cultists. Like the Mordheim Nurgle Circus.

**Leth**

Also one cool thing to remember is that with Miasma of Pestilence anyone who is trying to overcharge plasma at us will overheat on a 1 or a 2.

**Tiberius501**

Leth wrote:
Also one cool thing to remember is that with Miasma of Pestilence anyone who is trying to overcharge plasma at us will overheat on a 1 or a 2.

pretty sure it says it overheats on a roll of a 1, not a result of 1. Which means only a naturally rolled 1 on a dice is an overheat, regardless of a modifier turning a 2 into a result of one. That's my understanding.

**Leth**

Tiberius501 wrote:
Leth wrote:
Also one cool thing to remember is that with Miasma of Pestilence anyone who is trying to overcharge plasma at us will overheat on a 1 or a 2.

pretty sure it says it overheats on a roll of a 1, not a result of 1. Which means only a naturally rolled 1 on a dice is an overheat, regardless of a modifier turning a 2 into a result of one. That's my understanding.

Hits/Wounds, Re-Rolls, and Modifiers

Hits/Wounds, Re-Rolls, and Modifiers

Because we have moved to a strict to hit or too wound system the new system of modifiers will take awhile for people to get used to. One of the biggest changes is that all modifiers are TO THE ROLLS. It used to be that a model might get -1 BS or set to a fixed BS. Now it says "Hit on a 4+, and X ability subtracts one from your roll".

In many situations it probably wont matter, where it does matter is when abilities trigger off of specific rolls or above a specific roll. If an enemy has an ability that triggers off of 6+ to hit and they get -1, they can never trigger that ability. Conversely if they get +1 to hit the ability triggers on a 5+. If an enemy ability triggers on exactly 6 and they get +1 to hit, it will now only trigger on a 5. It is very important now to know if an ability triggers on a specific roll or above/below a certain roll.

What is important to remember is that all re-rolls occur BEFORE modifiers. Where this gets really important is the interaction with many of the standard Aura Abilities and things, like overcharged plasma, that trigger on a specific roll.

Example - Plasmagun has -1 to hit against a flier. However he is within an aura that allows him to re-roll 1s. In this case he would ONLY be allowed to re-roll natural 1s as a result of the ability. However if he decided to overcharge any model that rolled a two would now die because after modifications it became a 1 and this is post re-rolls. Following the re-rolls any natural rolls of one become 0 and thus no longer cause an overheat.

Finally if those plasmaguns get a +1, they can never overheat while still getting to take advantage of their re-rolls.

All of this is important to keep in mind when thinking about how unit abilities stack and apply.

**Tiberius501**

Leth wrote:
Tiberius501 wrote:
Leth wrote:
Also one cool thing to remember is that with Miasma of Pestilence anyone who is trying to overcharge plasma at us will overheat on a 1 or a 2.

pretty sure it says it overheats on a roll of a 1, not a result of 1. Which means only a naturally rolled 1 on a dice is an overheat, regardless of a modifier turning a 2 into a result of one. That's my understanding.

Hits/Wounds, Re-Rolls, and Modifiers

Because we have moved to a strict to hit or too wound system the new system of modifiers will take awhile for people to get used to. One of the biggest changes is that all modifiers are TO THE ROLLS, not actually the stats themselves. So before it would make a model BS2 instead of BS3. Now it says "Hit on a 4+, subtract one from your roll".

In many situations it probably wont matter, however many abilities trigger off of specific rolls or above a specific roll. So for example if an enemy has an ability that triggers off of 6+ to hit if they get -1 they can never trigger that ability. Conversely if they get +1 to hit the ability triggers on a 5+.

What is important to remember is that all re-rolls occur BEFORE modifiers. Where this gets really important is that many Aura Abilities and overcharged plasma trigger on a roll of 1. Where this overlaps is when someone has both a negative to hit as well as a re-roll or ability triggered on a specific roll

Example - Plasmagun has -1 to hit against a flier. However he is within an aura that allows him to re-roll 1s. In this case he would ONLY be allowed to re-roll natural 1s as a result of the ability. However if he decided to overcharge any model that rolled a two would now die because after modifications it became a 1 and this is post re-rolls. However following the re-rolls any natural rolls of one become 0 and thus no longer cause an overheat.

Something to keep in mind when thinking about overcharging plasma and selecting targets as well as using things like smoke launchers.

Actually it says "on a hit roll of 1" So when there is a -1 modifier it would only trigger on a roll of a two. However, because of the way that re-rolls occur BEFORE modifiers it means that even if they are in a re-roll 1s aura any model that rolls a two will not be able to avoid death.

I have been schooled, and I am happy for it. Plaguecasters are going to be amazingly handy

**Rippy**

Kangaxx wrote:
Rippy wrote:
Where are you getting August from, DarkStarSabre? Or do you just mean it would be nice if they FAQ'd it if our codex is coming after July?

I think thats a consensus after the hint in WD '' they shall now not fear" that aims of a Primaris release for July.

Rippy, where do you get this balance at launch points information?

Okay thanks for that.

The balance at launch comes from another thread here. The rumor doesn't have much basis though.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/728560.page

**privateer4hire**

Sorry if this has been answered but if you get the starter for the DG will the DG booklet it contains give you points for the included force? Or do you still have to get the Chaos Index for the points if you stay completely with starter box stuff?

Thanks for clarification.

**Thargrim**

privateer4hire wrote:
Sorry if this has been answered but if you get the starter for the DG will the DG booklet it contains give you points for the included force? Or do you still have to get the Chaos Index for the points if you stay completely with starter box stuff?

Thanks for clarification.

I'm pretty sure you get the rules for all the models included in the box, don't think anything else is included.

**privateer4hire**

Sorry to be dense but does that mean you don't get the points values for the minis and wargear?

**Leth**

We already have seen that you get the points for all of the potential equipment and wargear for the starter models in the dark imperium set.

**Jambles**

privateer4hire wrote:
Sorry to be dense but does that mean you don't get the points values for the minis and wargear?

You get both points and power levels for all the units in the box, primaris and death guard. Can confirm.

**privateer4hire**

Thanks to you both. I've mainly been watching batreps of the non-starter forces.

**Jambles**

privateer4hire wrote:
Thanks to you both. I've mainly been watching batreps of the non-starter forces.

Without going into too much detail - the points values in the boxed set and the ones in the indexes appear to be different, so I guess be wary of that little gotcha?

**Tiberius501**

Jambles wrote:
privateer4hire wrote:
Thanks to you both. I've mainly been watching batreps of the non-starter forces.
Without going into too much detail - the points values in the boxed set and the ones in the indexes appear to be different, so I guess be wary of that little gotcha?

Would you be able to mention if the points values are generally lower or higher in the boxed set?

**plagueknight**

Tiberius501 wrote:
Jambles wrote:
privateer4hire wrote:
Thanks to you both. I've mainly been watching batreps of the non-starter forces.
Without going into too much detail - the points values in the boxed set and the ones in the indexes appear to be different, so I guess be wary of that little gotcha?

Would you be able to mention if the points values are generally lower or higher in the boxed set?

Boxset points are higher for the Death Guard for some stupid reason

**Tiberius501**

plagueknight wrote:
Tiberius501 wrote:
Jambles wrote:
privateer4hire wrote:
Thanks to you both. I've mainly been watching batreps of the non-starter forces.
Without going into too much detail - the points values in the boxed set and the ones in the indexes appear to be different, so I guess be wary of that little gotcha?

Would you be able to mention if the points values are generally lower or higher in the boxed set?

Boxset points are higher for the Death Guard for some stupid reason

**plagueknight**

Bloat drone is 99pts without wargear in the chaos index whilst in the boxset point sheet it is 143pts so by the time you add up all the wargear it has it will be 206pts compared to the 158pts it would be be using the chaos index

**Rippy**

plagueknight wrote:
Bloat drone is 99pts without wargear in the chaos index whilst in the boxset point sheet it is 143pts so by the time you add up all the wargear it has it will be 206pts compared to the 158pts it would be be using the chaos index

Is that definately without Wargear already added in the box set book?

**Galas**

Primaris Marines points in the boxset are cheaper than in the index, but Deathguard is at the inverse... so in the end, the difference in points between the starter set and the indexs actually benefits Deathguard!

**Thargrim**

I sure hope they smooth out the points stuff quickly, it's a bad sign to have so many inconsistencies the day 8th edition drops. Having to print out faqs and stuff is already bloating things with book keeping cause now i'm gonna have to run around with printed sheets, the books, etc and then later on the codex too. However in a game where things change constantly things will never be balanced. That's why I like Blood Bowl, it embraces the imbalances and maybe some factions should be harder to play than others.

Hopefully they had enough time to edit the points costs and balancing into the actual DG codex. If the DG codex was already at the printers and is sitting waiting then I guess we'll be getting a faq for that too.

**Galas**

Actually when they release the Codex you aren't gonna need the Index or anything more. Everything that you need will be on the codex. (Unless you are using a army with mixed allies of diferent factions)