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Made in ca
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





The Problem
So I think the shooting phase needs to be simplified. There are so many weapons in this game its ridiculous. So how about we reduce the number of weapons down to 4, Heavy Bolter, Plasma, Grav, Lascannon and make it so that only 1 the Heavy Bolter can be shot more then once per turn lets say the Heavy Bolter. You can bring 20 lascannons but you can only shoot 1 a turn and if you miss that's it.

If this was the state of our shooting phase people would be up in arms, and rightly so, and I would be with those who were, even if the list varied from army to army. Yet this is the very state in which our psychic phase is in, and as far as I can tell most peoples attitude is deal with it, or its a good thing because it simplifies everything. Now if you're a part of the latter then you should be all for the changes above, and if your not, then you should reevaluate whether or not you think the changes to the psychic phase are a good thing. If your a part of the former I would ask you if they made the above changes would you simply deal with it? As for the Melee focused players just apply the above to the melee phase only 4 weapons allowed one can attack as many times a turn as you want but the other 3 only get 1 attack per turn.

Now let me be clear. I do not want to go back to the old system. There was such a range in power regarding spells that paying 25 points for a single ML could get S D shots or Invis, or it could get you Hemorrhage. This made no sense. With some spells being stupidly overpowered it made some people not roll on entire tables because they refused to use certain abilities from those tables.

Apparently GW insists on having random tables, because Psychic Powers come from the warp, so chaos. (Yes I know SW your powers don't come from the warp, they come from Fenris.)

The Main problems I am seeing are; Smites range is too short (18") and too unreliable (cannot pick the target), Lack of spells that can be cast (you can buy 3 Sorcerers but will only ever get 1.5 of what you paid for.), Unreliability, the table are more reliable still, but the fact that I can buy 3 Sorcerers and still end up not getting Prescience is an issue.

The Solution
So why not have 4 tables. 1 that are the "basic" abilities, These could be purchasable. So no rolling on this table just pick one buy it if you want. You could have some interesting spells on this table like "This spell makes the target unit count as double the models." doesn't do much but in the right situation you could see 3 Guardsman holding an Objective over 5 CSM.

Then the other 3 tables are rolled on to see what you get, but they have increased impacts. Like reroll to hit and things of that nature. And keep with three distinct themes. Offensive, Defensive, and Utility. These are mostly self explanatory, utility would probably be mostly focused on leadership, movement, and objective holding.

Each specific faction (Like Space Wolves, Thousand Sons, NOT Black Templars ) would have a table that augments the specific thing that army wants to do, so Space Wolves have stuff more oriented towards melee and movement. What we don't want is what they have started to do. which is put Generic Spell Lists in which apply to entire factions (like Hereticis Astartes which is just the CSM table). This is lazy your going to see Prescience on multiple tables, and there is no reason for it.

Or,

Another, possible solution is to simply change the rule so that you can cast spells multiple but for every cast past the first it costs 2 spell casts, (So if you bring 2 Exalted Sorcerers one casts Prescience and Smite, the other one can cast either Smite or Prescience). This limits the number of spells cast so you don't have people just throwing out loads of buffs.

What do you guys think? Is there a problem? If not, why not? If so what do you think of my suggestions?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 21:59:38


 
   
Made in gb
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant




England

I think you're on about 8th, where I'm pretty certain you can choose your Psykic powers. Also, your solution is unfortunately too convoluted. We wanted to change 7th to be less inflated with rules, and now you want to put more rules in it.

Also remember that each army will have individual codexes, where the Psykic powers will be expanded upon - just give them time to be released.

If you can't believe in yourself, believe in me! Believe in the Dakka who believes in you!  
   
Made in kr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I think you're on about 8th, where I'm pretty certain you can choose your Psykic powers. Also, your solution is unfortunately too convoluted. We wanted to change 7th to be less inflated with rules, and now you want to put more rules in it.

Also remember that each army will have individual codexes, where the Psykic powers will be expanded upon - just give them time to be released.


Plus psychic stuff is not as integral to the game as shooting... It should be a side issue affecting and being effected by a few very special units. Itmis not supposed to form one third of a shooting close combat magic triumvirate.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




In addition to that there are several factions who don't even get access to the psychic phase, so that needs to be kept in mind when creating and balancing psychic powers.
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

Dear lord no. The new powers and the how they're manifested are significantly better than the last edition.

There are problems with this edition, but the base powers and mechanics are not one of them.

Everyone will get their own snowflake powers down the road.

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+

Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
Made in ca
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





 WarbossDakka wrote:
I think you're on about 8th, where I'm pretty certain you can choose your Psykic powers. Also, your solution is unfortunately too convoluted. We wanted to change 7th to be less inflated with rules, and now you want to put more rules in it.

Also remember that each army will have individual codexes, where the Psykic powers will be expanded upon - just give them time to be released.


you cant choose your psychic powers they have to be rolled for. Some Characters (Like Ahriman) just get to roll 3 times on a list that only has 3 options. How is it too convoluted? It would be 1 less table compared to what it looks like they are going to do right now? How would using the same system but reducing the number of tables be putting more rules in?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jeff white wrote:
Plus psychic stuff is not as integral to the game as shooting... It should be a side issue affecting and being effected by a few very special units. Itmis not supposed to form one third of a shooting close combat magic triumvirate.


Except there are some armies that use Psychic Powers for all their heavy lifting its how they take out tanks and things of that nature. Right now all those armies are screwed, and unless they add about 10 faction specific spells to those armies its not going to change.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 22:30:03


 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




Phoenix, Arizona

 jeff white wrote:
 WarbossDakka wrote:
I think you're on about 8th, where I'm pretty certain you can choose your Psykic powers. Also, your solution is unfortunately too convoluted. We wanted to change 7th to be less inflated with rules, and now you want to put more rules in it.

Also remember that each army will have individual codexes, where the Psykic powers will be expanded upon - just give them time to be released.


Plus psychic stuff is not as integral to the game as shooting... It should be a side issue affecting and being effected by a few very special units. Itmis not supposed to form one third of a shooting close combat magic triumvirate.


To be fair - for Thousand Sons armies, Psychic powers are integral to their game. Every infantry unit they have, baring Tzaangors, either is a Sorcerer, or is led by a Sorcerer. So we're paying a lot of points for units that, by virtue of the base rules themselves (for matched play), we cannot utilize to their fullest. And, the one spell we can spam, is weaker for us, then for everyone else, save GK.

Hell, their entire lore indicates that the army really only functions due to the powerful psychics that command it. Granted - that doesn't necessarily have to transfer to the table top, I get that fluff =/= rules, but there is more than enough justification for TS to be one of the premier psychic armies.

That being said, I am not in favor in adding more convoluted rules to the psychic phase in order to make this playable. The reality is, that if nothing else, Thousand Sons Sorcerers (Exalted and up, i.e. their HQ and Elite psykers) should have less restrictions on them in what they can cast. That would have been the easiest thing to do. And I'm hoping that we see not only that, but a much expanded list of powers available to us when our codex drops - whenever that may be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 22:31:56


Sometimes, the only truth people understand, comes from the barrel of a gun.
 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





"You can either roll a D3 to generate their powers randomly (re-roll any duplicate results), or you can select the psychic powers you wish to have." Ripped from the chaos daemon list but I don't have to double check to know that all of the other psychic power lists are the same. C'tan powers have the same rule as well.

The problem is less the psychic phase itself being tuned down and more that psyker-heavy armies don't have the support they need yet. Why the Death Guard got a special psyker table all to themselves and the Thousand Sons didn't is beyond me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 22:33:32


 
   
Made in ca
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





 Blacksails wrote:
Dear lord no. The new powers and the how they're manifested are significantly better than the last edition.

There are problems with this edition, but the base powers and mechanics are not one of them.

Everyone will get their own snowflake powers down the road.


I'm not saying change back to the old system, I said that explicitly in the OP. What I want are more support options for my Sorcerers. Fine there buff bots now whatever, but don't limit my army to 1 actual Sorcerer and a 7 Pseudo Sorcerers embedded in units.

The "snowflake" powers will not help for TS there would have to be 10 or more powers and that is just not going to happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arachnofiend wrote:
"You can either roll a D3 to generate their powers randomly (re-roll any duplicate results), or you can select the psychic powers you wish to have." Ripped from the chaos daemon list but I don't have to double check to know that all of the other psychic power lists are the same. C'tan powers have the same rule as well.

The problem is less the psychic phase itself being tuned down and more that psyker-heavy armies don't have the support they need yet. Why the Death Guard got a special psyker table all to themselves and the Thousand Sons didn't is beyond me.


Fine doesn't change the fact that I have uber limited options, and can only cast them 1 time each.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vryce wrote:
That being said, I am not in favor in adding more convoluted rules to the psychic phase in order to make this playable. The reality is, that if nothing else, Thousand Sons Sorcerers (Exalted and up, i.e. their HQ and Elite psykers) should have less restrictions on them in what they can cast. That would have been the easiest thing to do. And I'm hoping that we see not only that, but a much expanded list of powers available to us when our codex drops - whenever that may be.


Then go with the second option which is simply every cast after first would count as 2 casts.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/02 22:37:37


 
   
Made in cr
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




Arachnofiend wrote:
The problem is less the psychic phase itself being tuned down and more that psyker-heavy armies don't have the support they need yet. Why the Death Guard got a special psyker table all to themselves and the Thousand Sons didn't is beyond me.
Well, aside from the "remove the psychic phase from the game" players, I think we can all recognize it's a pretty poor state of affairs.

The only explanation I can think of is that GW's design team lacked time to actually implement something they were happy with. So they're just pushing it down the line.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If TS get representation from each of their psyker cults, power variety won't be an issue.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 22:48:07


 
   
Made in ca
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





Yoyoyo wrote:
If TS get representation from each of their psyker cults, power variety won't be an issue.


This would be a dream came true but I doubt it will happen.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/02 23:09:37


 
   
 
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