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yeah, implying the geneseed of the two lost legions wasn't destroyed. VERY intreasting adds some intreasting new snags to the chapters with unidentified primarchs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/04 22:26:54
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Finished the book. Not bad, but not amazing either. Fits in with most of the mediocre stuff from the Heresy series.
Guilliman's portrayal is somewhat interesting. He's terribly lonely, and terribly tired. The weight of the entire Imperium is riding on his shoulders, and he's doing the best he can. He's absolutely sick of having to push past the self-interest of many officials though. He resurrects the Tetrarchs to govern the Five Hundred Worlds, even though there's a large number of those worlds who deny they were ever part of Ultramar and don't want to rejoin his private empire.
Calgar is hanging about feeling naff because he keeps seeing barbs in Guilliman's words that aren't here. For example, when Guilliman comes back to clear out Morty and says that he'll make sure all these cultists and problems go away, Calgar feels like that's a reproach on his inability to solve these problems, that he just keeps on failing. He also has some hangups about Guilliman's furniture. Apparently he used to go and hang around the Primarch's stash of household equipment to think and 'take in' the ambience of these holy relics; now Guilliman's back and lounging about them like they mean nothing and it somehow feels vaguely sacrilegious to him. Generally, he's also having a lot of 'Never meet your hero' complex, Guilliman wasn't quite what he was expecting.
Typhon keeps taunting Mortarion going 'You ain't the boss of me, I stand higher with Daddy Nurgle because I brought you and the Death Guard over to him', and generally sassing him and Ku'Gath. Frankly, Mortarion went down a lot in my estimation, he seems to have been reduced to the Plague God's whipping boy.
Cawl is decidedly salty about not being appointed Fabricator-General. He keeps asking Guilliman every time they talk apparently. Guilliman has him running around trying to find a way to replicate the Necron pylons, desperate to get rid of the warp rift across the middle of the galaxy as Priority No. 1. He generally seems to have too much power though, Guilliman is exceedingly suspicious of him. There are remarks about how ten thousand years alive has effectively stripped him of his humanity. Ol' Cawl is only one step away from being an AI himself, really.
Guilliman reminisces about his meeting with his dad. The gist of it boils down to the Emperor being virtually nothing of what he used to be. All subtlety is gone. He's just this raging mass of psychic power hooked up to a chair and only half there.
A few quotes:-
Spoiler:
There were but a handful alive now who remembered the Great Heresy War. The teeming multitudes of the Imperium had no inkling of the dream Horus’ betrayal had killed. Few beings lived that would have noted the changes the Avenging Son of Ultramar had undergone. His patrician’s face was lined, more with cares than with years, and sunken in on itself a touch, especially around the cheeks. He was still handsome, if not beautiful, for all the Emperor’s sons had been made to be perfect in thought and form. But though his features had a fineness a sculptor would struggle to capture, his was an eroded handsomeness, worn at the edges like a mountain’s crags. His golden hair had thinned a little, and at the temples were a few strands of grey. Pale brown circles gathered under his eyes when he grew tired, and there was tightness in his jaw, a legacy of the internal pain he had borne since his resurrection.
Before the crusade, the Macragge’s Honour had undergone an extensive refit in shipyards of the Ring of Iron around Mars, and the command deck had been entirely reconfigured from Guilliman’s day. Archmagos Cawl’s stamp was on everything. New machines and unheard of configurations of old devices replaced equipment that had been in use for tens of centuries. The tech-priests had been outraged, but Guilliman had silenced them, and Cawl had had his way.
The result was worth upsetting the Adeptus Mechanicus’ religious sensibilities. The machinery still had the ugly look of 41st millennium technology, but Guilliman reckoned there was a ten per cent increase in tactical responsiveness alone. Multiple redundancies and newly integrated systems allowed for better survivability. Dozens of tech-priests from Cawl’s faction laboured to keep the archmagos’ finely balanced design working, but it did work, and excellently so.
A century on from his rebirth, Guilliman had not yet grasped all the events of the ten millennia since he fell. Belisarius Cawl had provided the primarch with painful but necessary machine-moderated engrammatic updates, but Cawl was a secretive creature, detached from the wider galaxy while he pursued his quest to create the Primaris Space Marines. His records were incomplete, sometimes highly fragmentary, and all of them were short on detail.
Once again, Guilliman had found his own efforts were required to make up for the shortcomings of others.
The discipline of history, like so much else based on reason, had fallen foul of superstition, fanaticism and the High Lords of Terra’s need for iron control. Comparative and corroborative analytical techniques had given way to the recording of gossip, hearsay and folklore. All was liberally mixed with works of complete fabrication. Imperial interference in redacting chronicles, misguidedly or not, had further destroyed much of the past. War had eradicated the histories of entire worlds. Much knowledge had been burned by zealous inquisitors, often in order to suppress a single uncomfortable truth. If anything, the state of man’s knowledge was worse than it was back after the Unification Wars, when the Emperor had unified Terra before the Great Crusade. Much of Terra’s ancient history, painstakingly pieced together by the remembrancers of Guilliman’s own era, had been lost again.
Knowledge of the warp’s true nature had been suppressed, but patchily so. The great deception the Emperor had practised had become impossible to sustain, though that had not stopped the Inquisition from trying. Knowledge of daemons or the Dark Gods was forbidden. Many innocents had paid the ultimate price for accidentally learning the truth.
Even Guilliman, the Imperial Regent himself, faced opposition from the Inquisition in his quest for knowledge. To oppose their puritanical redactionism, he had trained his own corps of historitors. Between campaigns, he sought out inquisitive minds, exactly the sort that had long been frowned upon, rescuing them from penal servitude and impending brain wipe. The first handful he had tutored himself, when time allowed. They in turn taught more, and more still. Each one was assessed by the primarch personally. Those that passed were given the rank of historitor-investigatus. Those that failed to meet his exacting standards were given less taxing roles within the new organisation, as librarians, servants and assistants. From his reading, Guilliman had learnt that the brutal machinery of Imperial government was unkind to failures, yet another thing that saddened him about the present age. The primarch had enough blood upon his conscience, and a much finer grasp of how to get the most out of his subjects. No life was wasted.
Some changes had been made to Imperial salvaging policies within the fleet. Guilliman had ordered the wrecks of the traitor’s ships to be utterly destroyed. It had been the habit of the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Navy to recover enemy ships. Chaos vessels were of Imperial make, and were often of older, superior patterns. The primarch stamped hard on the practice. Build new ships, he had said. Leave the past where it is. The corruption of the warp buried itself deeply into whatever it touched.
The Martians had not been happy with that. They had looked upon the older marques of vessel with greedy eyes. Examples had been made.
The tribune’s contempt for baseline humanity troubled Guilliman.
‘You have spent your life guarding the Emperor, yet you forget who the Emperor guards in His turn,’ said Guilliman. ‘Be more forgiving.’
‘As you wish,’ said Colquan. Traditionally, the Adeptus Custodes had taken orders only from their own officers and the Emperor. That was until Guilliman had been declared Imperial Regent: the Emperor’s living voice.
At the thought of his fathers, the memory of the sights he had witnessed in the throne room a century ago intruded violently into his mind. Against the odds, something lingered on the Golden Throne. His last encounter with his true father had been a spear of light and pain whose psychic aftershocks troubled him still. The Emperor had lost His subtlety.
So just finished the book, man, massive cliffhanger. my guess is the battle where Gulliman fights Mortarian is gonna be detailed in a campaign book that'll include stuff on death guard and new Primaris units
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Just because Cawl thinks it's the case doesn't mean it is. sounds like he mostly wants an excuse to scavage alien tech. I definatly get a sense of forbodding re Cawl. the man is both radical, AND ambitious. he wants Gulliman to install him as Fabricator General, and Gulliman says he wants to meet Cawl "face to face" but apparentl;;y for some reason that may be diffifcult. which leads me to suspect Cawl is doing something naughty.
Actually no. Cawl has struck me as a power hungry mad radical with a gargantuan ego that's almost looking he's about to double cross everyone. Just a pointer: he has an AI he calls Cawl Inferior and masquerades as a program. He just doesn't give feths and wants to get his way on everything.
You guys have no idea how happy I am to read that the general feeling of noblebright in the latest fluff had left a really bad taste in my mouth, but it's massively refreshing to hear that all is not well at all in the New Imperium.
Not vat-grown, at least not all, the main Primairs Marine we follow was actually from around the time of the Heresy, he was a 13 year old aspirant looking to join the Ultramarine Legion before getting poached for the Primaris project.
Wait, what? Guilliman reformed the Ultramarines as a Legion?
Come in all nine loyalist flavours, though Cawl has been working on all twenty varieties of gene-seed and says that they're all ready for production, though Guilliman refuses to do so, he doesn't entirely trust Cawl not have done so already.
Waaaait, did they say "all" or did they say "all 20?"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 14:43:25
Not vat-grown, at least not all, the main Primairs Marine we follow was actually from around the time of the Heresy, he was a 13 year old aspirant looking to join the Ultramarine Legion before getting poached for the Primaris project.
Wait, what? Guilliman reformed the Ultramarines as a Legion?
No, the Primaris Marine was originally from an era when the Ultramarines were still a Legion.
Not vat-grown, at least not all, the main Primairs Marine we follow was actually from around the time of the Heresy, he was a 13 year old aspirant looking to join the Ultramarine Legion before getting poached for the Primaris project.
Wait, what? Guilliman reformed the Ultramarines as a Legion?
No, the Primaris Marine was originally from an era when the Ultramarines were still a Legion.
Not vat-grown, at least not all, the main Primairs Marine we follow was actually from around the time of the Heresy, he was a 13 year old aspirant looking to join the Ultramarine Legion before getting poached for the Primaris project.
Wait, what? Guilliman reformed the Ultramarines as a Legion?
Come in all nine loyalist flavours, though Cawl has been working on all twenty varieties of gene-seed and says that they're all ready for production, though Guilliman refuses to do so, he doesn't entirely trust Cawl not have done so already.
Waaaait, did they say "all" or did they say "all 20?"
Not vat-grown, at least not all, the main Primairs Marine we follow was actually from around the time of the Heresy, he was a 13 year old aspirant looking to join the Ultramarine Legion before getting poached for the Primaris project.
Wait, what? Guilliman reformed the Ultramarines as a Legion?
Come in all nine loyalist flavours, though Cawl has been working on all twenty varieties of gene-seed and says that they're all ready for production, though Guilliman refuses to do so, he doesn't entirely trust Cawl not have done so already.
Waaaait, did they say "all" or did they say "all 20?"
By the end of the Crusade Primaris Marines are believed to be accepted by 94% of Chapters.
What are the 6% of the chapters that don't accept them?
Never mentioned. Though I imagine Grey Knights will be one on account of their unique gene-seed.
I'd think this is more of a back-door for keeping your personal chapters Primaris free if you want too.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
buddha wrote: Any mention of the grey knights on the crusade? They seem so much less "special" in the grand scheme of the setting now.
The Grey Knights are mentioned as serving in the Indomitus Crusade. When attacking a traitor fleet and superstructure around a planet Guilliman had them stationed throughout his fleet to thwart any Traitor attempts to summon daemonic trouble.
buddha wrote: Also, just to clarify, the setting may have fast forwarded almost a thousand years? Cool.
Not quite. The setting is now 112 years on from where we last left it, but the actual date could be much earlier or later than M41.999 because the Imperium has been bad at keeping a consistent calendar. It'd would be like discovering we were actually potentially in 1950 to 2050 rather than 2017.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/05 15:23:23
By the Emperor, this is all so cool! I am super excited about the things to come for 40K!
Animus wrote: Okay, just finished Dark Imperium, and it's a good read! Some highlights:
Spoiler:
Primaris Marines:
Larger and stronger than old type Marines
Further differences include irridial whorls marking their hands and extra organs in their brains
Physically closer to the Primarchs than old type Marines
Not vat-grown, at least not all, the main Primairs Marine we follow was actually from around the time of the Heresy, he was a 13 year old aspirant looking to join the Ultramarine Legion before getting poached for the Primaris project.
Come in all nine loyalist flavours, though Cawl has been working on all twenty varieties of gene-seed and says that they're all ready for production, though Guilliman refuses to do so, he doesn't entirely trust Cawl not have done so already.
Tens of thousands of Primaris Marines were present at the ultima founding. Only half were put formed into new Chapters. The other half essentially fought as a Legion called the Unnumbered Sons.
The Unnumbered Sons fought in the colours and heraldry of their parent Chapter, but with a grey chevron covering part of the Chapter symbol. They fought in groups of mixed gene lineage to learn each others strengths better and because Guilliman believed that the distance between the various Legions played a big part in the Heresy.
The Unnumbered Sons were steadily drained as the Indomitus Crusade went on, dribs and drabs going off to reinforce and become part of existing Chapters or too found new Chapters based where Guilliman thought they were necessary. They are disbanded totally at the end of the Crusade.
By the end of the Crusade Primaris Marines are believed to be accepted by 94% of Chapters.
The Primaris Marines easily overcome the Iron Warriors but are more evenly matched by the Death Guard.
Cool stuff! Interesting to see all 20 of gene-seeds being worked on. Hopefully nothing major gets revealed about the lost Legions though, that is one mystery that ought to stay a mystery.
As of yet unseen units!
Aggressors: Wearing gravis armour and armed with flamers of some kind.
Reivers: Infiltration and close combat specialists, wear a special stealth armour and carry powered blades. Have skull helmets.
Overlord: A flyer so big it's described as making a Thunderhawk look like a toy, so probably not coming to tables soon but you never know.
Neat!
Guilliman:
No longer sleeps after being brought back from the dead.
Feels very conflicted about the Emperor, he's still loyal and would gladly die again for the Imperium, but found out that the Emperor never considered the Primarch to be anything more than tools and blames him for the Heresy with all his lies.
Unsure whether the Emperor is a God or not, though still leaning towards no.
Created an order of historians to try and piece together a comprehensive true history of the Imperium, the Inquisition does not like this.
Regrets disbanding Ultramar because it could have been a brighter symbol for the rest of the Imperium, but is bringing it back Tetrarchs and all.
Hey, look, it's some character development!
Cawl:
Very secretive and crazy smart.
Was considered a radical even in the much more open minded Mechanicum. Which is why Guilliman approached him about the Primaris project.
Currently tasked with recreating the Pylons so Guilliman can seal the holes in space.
Is working with trying to find intact Pylons, and working with Eldar, Necron and Old One technology. He believes each race had a piece of a bigger picture and that by combining their works he can do big things.
Really wants to be Fabricator-General of Mars but is way too Heretek for it.
Guilliman forsees a time where he may become a problem for the Imperium.
Interesting to read. For a new character, he doesn't feel completely out of place now.
Mortarion:
Never got over his hatred for warpcraft, despite becoming a daemon.
Not following Nurgle's plan much to the disgust of Typhus, though he personally believes Nurgle would be pleased by his initiative.
He hunted his alien step-dad's soul across the warp and has it imprison in a jar, where he torments it with spiritual sicknesses.
Like Fulgrim did 10,000 years ago he's trying to kill Guilliman because he knows the Imperium will collapse without him.
Cool stuff.
Custodes:
Have been in a depression for ten thousand years, but Guilliman has set a real fire under them. Now he worries their rage might consume them.
More development, nice!
Sisters of Silence:
Dwindled almost to nothing over time, though Guilliman is trying to get them back into gear.
Worship the Emperor as a God.
The date:
The Indomitus Crusade ends 112 years after it starts after the end of Gathering Storm.
However it turns out that there's been a lot of infighting and factionalisim in the Ordo Chronos so there are actually five different major imperial calendars and dating systems, and many many smaller ones. Guilliman can only calculate the actual date as being somewhere in early M.41 or a thousand years later.
This is hilarious, and a perfect example of how the Imperium of Man keeps goofing things up.
I'll add more if I think of any, and of course if you've also read it feel free to add anything I've missed.
Ketara wrote: Finished the book. Not bad, but not amazing either. Fits in with most of the mediocre stuff from the Heresy series.
Guilliman's portrayal is somewhat interesting. He's terribly lonely, and terribly tired. The weight of the entire Imperium is riding on his shoulders, and he's doing the best he can. He's absolutely sick of having to push past the self-interest of many officials though. He resurrects the Tetrarchs to govern the Five Hundred Worlds, even though there's a large number of those worlds who deny they were ever part of Ultramar and don't want to rejoin his private empire.
Again, actual character development for the Primarch.
Calgar is hanging about feeling naff because he keeps seeing barbs in Guilliman's words that aren't here. For example, when Guilliman comes back to clear out Morty and says that he'll make sure all these cultists and problems go away, Calgar feels like that's a reproach on his inability to solve these problems, that he just keeps on failing. He also has some hangups about Guilliman's furniture. Apparently he used to go and hang around the Primarch's stash of household equipment to think and 'take in' the ambience of these holy relics; now Guilliman's back and lounging about them like they mean nothing and it somehow feels vaguely sacrilegious to him. Generally, he's also having a lot of 'Never meet your hero' complex, Guilliman wasn't quite what he was expecting.
Lol, this is awesome and sad at the same time, as it should be. Guilliman is carrying on with business as usual, but the faithful are finding their faith tested as their hero is not quite what they expected.
Typhon keeps taunting Mortarion going 'You ain't the boss of me, I stand higher with Daddy Nurgle because I brought you and the Death Guard over to him', and generally sassing him and Ku'Gath. Frankly, Mortarion went down a lot in my estimation, he seems to have been reduced to the Plague God's whipping boy.
Cawl is decidedly salty about not being appointed Fabricator-General. He keeps asking Guilliman every time they talk apparently. Guilliman has him running around trying to find a way to replicate the Necron pylons, desperate to get rid of the warp rift across the middle of the galaxy as Priority No. 1. He generally seems to have too much power though, Guilliman is exceedingly suspicious of him. There are remarks about how ten thousand years alive has effectively stripped him of his humanity. Ol' Cawl is only one step away from being an AI himself, really.
Guilliman reminisces about his meeting with his dad. The gist of it boils down to the Emperor being virtually nothing of what he used to be. All subtlety is gone. He's just this raging mass of psychic power hooked up to a chair and only half there.
A few quotes:-
Spoiler:
There were but a handful alive now who remembered the Great Heresy War. The teeming multitudes of the Imperium had no inkling of the dream Horus’ betrayal had killed. Few beings lived that would have noted the changes the Avenging Son of Ultramar had undergone. His patrician’s face was lined, more with cares than with years, and sunken in on itself a touch, especially around the cheeks. He was still handsome, if not beautiful, for all the Emperor’s sons had been made to be perfect in thought and form. But though his features had a fineness a sculptor would struggle to capture, his was an eroded handsomeness, worn at the edges like a mountain’s crags. His golden hair had thinned a little, and at the temples were a few strands of grey. Pale brown circles gathered under his eyes when he grew tired, and there was tightness in his jaw, a legacy of the internal pain he had borne since his resurrection.
Before the crusade, the Macragge’s Honour had undergone an extensive refit in shipyards of the Ring of Iron around Mars, and the command deck had been entirely reconfigured from Guilliman’s day. Archmagos Cawl’s stamp was on everything. New machines and unheard of configurations of old devices replaced equipment that had been in use for tens of centuries. The tech-priests had been outraged, but Guilliman had silenced them, and Cawl had had his way.
The result was worth upsetting the Adeptus Mechanicus’ religious sensibilities. The machinery still had the ugly look of 41st millennium technology, but Guilliman reckoned there was a ten per cent increase in tactical responsiveness alone. Multiple redundancies and newly integrated systems allowed for better survivability. Dozens of tech-priests from Cawl’s faction laboured to keep the archmagos’ finely balanced design working, but it did work, and excellently so.
A century on from his rebirth, Guilliman had not yet grasped all the events of the ten millennia since he fell. Belisarius Cawl had provided the primarch with painful but necessary machine-moderated engrammatic updates, but Cawl was a secretive creature, detached from the wider galaxy while he pursued his quest to create the Primaris Space Marines. His records were incomplete, sometimes highly fragmentary, and all of them were short on detail.
Once again, Guilliman had found his own efforts were required to make up for the shortcomings of others.
The discipline of history, like so much else based on reason, had fallen foul of superstition, fanaticism and the High Lords of Terra’s need for iron control. Comparative and corroborative analytical techniques had given way to the recording of gossip, hearsay and folklore. All was liberally mixed with works of complete fabrication. Imperial interference in redacting chronicles, misguidedly or not, had further destroyed much of the past. War had eradicated the histories of entire worlds. Much knowledge had been burned by zealous inquisitors, often in order to suppress a single uncomfortable truth. If anything, the state of man’s knowledge was worse than it was back after the Unification Wars, when the Emperor had unified Terra before the Great Crusade. Much of Terra’s ancient history, painstakingly pieced together by the remembrancers of Guilliman’s own era, had been lost again.
Knowledge of the warp’s true nature had been suppressed, but patchily so. The great deception the Emperor had practised had become impossible to sustain, though that had not stopped the Inquisition from trying. Knowledge of daemons or the Dark Gods was forbidden. Many innocents had paid the ultimate price for accidentally learning the truth.
Even Guilliman, the Imperial Regent himself, faced opposition from the Inquisition in his quest for knowledge. To oppose their puritanical redactionism, he had trained his own corps of historitors. Between campaigns, he sought out inquisitive minds, exactly the sort that had long been frowned upon, rescuing them from penal servitude and impending brain wipe. The first handful he had tutored himself, when time allowed. They in turn taught more, and more still. Each one was assessed by the primarch personally. Those that passed were given the rank of historitor-investigatus. Those that failed to meet his exacting standards were given less taxing roles within the new organisation, as librarians, servants and assistants. From his reading, Guilliman had learnt that the brutal machinery of Imperial government was unkind to failures, yet another thing that saddened him about the present age. The primarch had enough blood upon his conscience, and a much finer grasp of how to get the most out of his subjects. No life was wasted.
Some changes had been made to Imperial salvaging policies within the fleet. Guilliman had ordered the wrecks of the traitor’s ships to be utterly destroyed. It had been the habit of the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Navy to recover enemy ships. Chaos vessels were of Imperial make, and were often of older, superior patterns. The primarch stamped hard on the practice. Build new ships, he had said. Leave the past where it is. The corruption of the warp buried itself deeply into whatever it touched.
The Martians had not been happy with that. They had looked upon the older marques of vessel with greedy eyes. Examples had been made.
The tribune’s contempt for baseline humanity troubled Guilliman.
‘You have spent your life guarding the Emperor, yet you forget who the Emperor guards in His turn,’ said Guilliman. ‘Be more forgiving.’
‘As you wish,’ said Colquan. Traditionally, the Adeptus Custodes had taken orders only from their own officers and the Emperor. That was until Guilliman had been declared Imperial Regent: the Emperor’s living voice.
At the thought of his fathers, the memory of the sights he had witnessed in the throne room a century ago intruded violently into his mind. Against the odds, something lingered on the Golden Throne. His last encounter with his true father had been a spear of light and pain whose psychic aftershocks troubled him still. The Emperor had lost His subtlety.
Awesome reads, everyone. Thanks for the summaries!
actually Gulliman ISN'T nesscarily carrying on like before. even he's finding his faith tested. n many ways his entire world view has been under assault. before he viewed the Emperor as "his father, and just a man" he's realizing now his relationship with the Emperor was differant (more a favored tool then a father son) he's also beginning to, even though he resists it on an intellectual level, wonder if perhaps his father is indeed a god. It's really neat to see, especially as in the Horus Heresy series I don't think we've ever seen any of the Primarchs wrestling with this level of well.. DOUBT, regreat and confusion.
A lotta people tend to think the whole Gulliman return thing, and the Primaris Marines, brings too much noblebright into the grimdark, but having read the book I think they really managed to make it work. Now that we've had our first taste, I'm excited for future novels.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/05 19:23:51
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I'm eagerly awaiting Cawl to have a secret connection to the Dark Mechanicus, or even the Dragon itself. Would be a nice sudden upset to all the (seemingly) easy gains the side of Good has gained with the new setting.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
AegisGrimm wrote: I'm eagerly awaiting Cawl to have a secret connection to the Dark Mechanicus, or even the Dragon itself. Would be a nice sudden upset to all the (seemingly) easy gains the side of Good has gained with the new setting.
I doubt very much that'll be the case, but at the same time, yeah Gulliman's definatly made a bit of a deal with the devil here.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
AegisGrimm wrote: I'm eagerly awaiting Cawl to have a secret connection to the Dark Mechanicus, or even the Dragon itself. Would be a nice sudden upset to all the (seemingly) easy gains the side of Good has gained with the new setting.
I doubt very much that'll be the case, but at the same time, yeah Gulliman's definatly made a bit of a deal with the devil here.
I'm doubtful too, but I would like to see more intrigue among the heroes, and the return of the dragon sect of mars being relevant again. It would, if anything, give a very understandable reason for Cawl being so radical and secretive.
AegisGrimm wrote: I'm eagerly awaiting Cawl to have a secret connection to the Dark Mechanicus, or even the Dragon itself. Would be a nice sudden upset to all the (seemingly) easy gains the side of Good has gained with the new setting.
I am not sure the Imperium has gained that much. The Cicatrix Maledictum still bisects the Imperium. Guilliman has hit the over-stretched Chaos forces hard but the Imperium is still in worse shape than it was prior to the start of the 13th Black Crusade. The 8th ed fluff doesn't strike me as overly positive, rather GW have raised the stakes by triggering some of their long-planted "doomsday scenarios".
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
Just because Cawl thinks it's the case doesn't mean it is. sounds like he mostly wants an excuse to scavage alien tech. I definatly get a sense of forbodding re Cawl. the man is both radical, AND ambitious. he wants Gulliman to install him as Fabricator General, and Gulliman says he wants to meet Cawl "face to face" but apparentl;;y for some reason that may be diffifcult. which leads me to suspect Cawl is doing something naughty.
Actually no. Cawl has struck me as a power hungry mad radical with a gargantuan ego that's almost looking he's about to double cross everyone. Just a pointer: he has an AI he calls Cawl Inferior and masquerades as a program. He just doesn't give feths and wants to get his way on everything.
You guys have no idea how happy I am to read that the general feeling of noblebright in the latest fluff had left a really bad taste in my mouth, but it's massively refreshing to hear that all is not well at all in the New Imperium.
Much better
That feeling just existed in your mind. At best the current situation could only be described as nobledark. gak was fethed beyond belief but maaaaaybe there was a way to paliate it.
MurderKing wrote: So there's a chance that there are already Night Lord and Alpha Legion Primaris Marines running around?
Spoiler: All Primaris Marines are Alpha Legion.
And Guilliman is actually Alpharius. The real Guilliman died long ago.
Hydra Dominatus.
You I like.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
yeah, implying the geneseed of the two lost legions wasn't destroyed. VERY intreasting adds some intreasting new snags to the chapters with unidentified primarchs.
I was going to say nah, Gene - Seed is a term they use for the new organs that they Astartes receive to turn them into space marines but there are only 19 of these, lost Legions ahoy!
This leaves me ever more tentatively hoping that they are indeed setting up a new civil war.
I doubt it if the plot remains as is. Guilliman is depicted as very firmly in control, with odd groups (planetary governors, etc) giving him a bit of trouble, but nothing along the lines of a civil war. He's shoved the Mechanicus into line, along with the Inquisition and the Custodes. He's supplanted the Lords of Terra. Cawl himself says that he has the power to appoint the new Fabricator General.
The truth is, Guilliman is effectively Emperor. He acts with the actual Emperor's full authority, and nobody else talks to the Emperor. That makes him Emperor by proxy. He has no counterpart, no rival authority. He is unchallenged.
If the Lion shows up though? Then things may get....interesting. But not until then.
This leaves me ever more tentatively hoping that they are indeed setting up a new civil war.
I doubt it if the plot remains as is. Guilliman is depicted as very firmly in control, with odd groups (planetary governors, etc) giving him a bit of trouble, but nothing along the lines of a civil war. He's shoved the Mechanicus into line, along with the Inquisition and the Custodes. He's supplanted the Lords of Terra. Cawl himself says that he has the power to appoint the new Fabricator General.
The truth is, Guilliman is effectively Emperor. He acts with the actual Emperor's full authority, and nobody else talks to the Emperor. That makes him Emperor by proxy. He has no counterpart, no rival authority. He is unchallenged.
If the Lion shows up though? Then things may get....interesting. But not until then.
How does anyone shove the Mechanicus aside? Any details on that?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
This leaves me ever more tentatively hoping that they are indeed setting up a new civil war.
I doubt it if the plot remains as is. Guilliman is depicted as very firmly in control, with odd groups (planetary governors, etc) giving him a bit of trouble, but nothing along the lines of a civil war. He's shoved the Mechanicus into line, along with the Inquisition and the Custodes. He's supplanted the Lords of Terra. Cawl himself says that he has the power to appoint the new Fabricator General.
The truth is, Guilliman is effectively Emperor. He acts with the actual Emperor's full authority, and nobody else talks to the Emperor. That makes him Emperor by proxy. He has no counterpart, no rival authority. He is unchallenged.
If the Lion shows up though? Then things may get....interesting. But not until then.
How does anyone shove the Mechanicus aside? Any details on that?
I gave one of the implications in that direction in my earlier quotes.
Some changes had been made to Imperial salvaging policies within the fleet. Guilliman had ordered the wrecks of the traitor’s ships to be utterly destroyed. It had been the habit of the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Navy to recover enemy ships. Chaos vessels were of Imperial make, and were often of older, superior patterns. The primarch stamped hard on the practice. Build new ships, he had said. Leave the past where it is. The corruption of the warp buried itself deeply into whatever it touched.
The Martians had not been happy with that. They had looked upon the older marques of vessel with greedy eyes. Examples had been made.
There are several sentences along these lines within the book. Combined with Cawl's belief that Guilliman has the power to appoint the Fabricator-General, it's reasonably clear that the Priesthood of Mars is firmly under his thumb for the most part. I've no doubt that there will still be factions of both the Adeptus Mechanicus and Inquisition beavering away behind the scenes to circumvent him, but as long as he has the main command chains firmly within his grip, it's not much of a concern. He also has the Ministorum eating out of his hand, he's taken over as the ultimate military commander, and even gives orders to the Custodes to take to the stars and do battle.
Somehow, in the space of a hundred years, Guilliman appears to have welded the Imperium into a machine under the direction of one primary ruler:- him. When Cawl is nagging him to appoint him Fabricator-General, Guilliman keeps insisting that the Martians need to do it themselves, that there have to be checks and balances, that he doesn't want be Horus. But at the same time, when he announces the appointment of another ten chapters of Primaris Marines and people start accusing him of building his own legion again, he overrides them without a second thought.
Guilliman is Emperor by proxy. He appoints the highest positions or not at his own whim. New Chapters are created by his sole discretion. He gives the order, and suddenly fifty planetary governors who have ruled their respective worlds for 3,000 years by past decree from the Lords of Terra find they're now subordinate to some random Ultramarine. He's literally turned around and said that the Codex Astartes is no longer fit for purpose and he's mid-way through a new edition (Codex Imperialis, I think it was), and every space marine will have to follow that instead when he's done. He orders the Martians about, overrides the Inquisition by pulling people out of their cells, throws out Lords of Terra who he thinks aren't up to the job.
Ave Imperator, Roboute Guilliman. Imperium Secundus has already risen.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/06/06 13:56:41
This leaves me ever more tentatively hoping that they are indeed setting up a new civil war.
I doubt it if the plot remains as is. Guilliman is depicted as very firmly in control, with odd groups (planetary governors, etc) giving him a bit of trouble, but nothing along the lines of a civil war. He's shoved the Mechanicus into line, along with the Inquisition and the Custodes. He's supplanted the Lords of Terra. Cawl himself says that he has the power to appoint the new Fabricator General.
The truth is, Guilliman is effectively Emperor. He acts with the actual Emperor's full authority, and nobody else talks to the Emperor. That makes him Emperor by proxy. He has no counterpart, no rival authority. He is unchallenged.
If the Lion shows up though? Then things may get....interesting. But not until then.
Or hell any of the other Loyalist Primarchs.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
the general feeling of noblebright in the latest fluff had left a really bad taste in my mouth, but it's massively refreshing to hear that all is not well at all in the New Imperium.
