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 ForceChoke wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
I don't really get what your hang-up is, just sounds to me like you're looking for an excuse to have a good whine.

That, and "nobody's allowed to like this unless they like it the same way I do".

Only you guys are saying that.

There's nothing about this that should make you stop enjoying the game any more than I should stop enjoying the game because of how dull and uninteresting chaos space marines are, or how GW keeps trying to force 30k bullgak in to 40k, or how gw keeps trying to make new marines that are marinier than your marines and the mariniest marines that ever marined your marine in the marine with their marines. Or how every damned new thing is so damned marine-focused.

 Melissia wrote:
There's nothing about this that should make you stop enjoying the game any more than I should stop enjoying the game because of how dull and uninteresting chaos space marines are, or how GW keeps trying to force 30k bullgak in to 40k, or how gw keeps trying to make new marines that are marinier than your marines and the mariniest marines that ever marined your marine in the marine with their marines. Or how every damned new thing is so damned marine-focused.

I think she doesn't like marines.

My disdain for spiky marines, which GW often depicts as one-note villains who revel in villainy, is quite open. As is my disdain for the primarchs being force-fed in to 40k, alongside my disdain for the very concept of "primaris" marines. And I'm hardly alone in disliking how so many other things are ignored so that they can just say "spess muhreenz" a bunch.

You're free to try to claim that me liking these ridiculous things means I must hate all things space marine, if you really want. Says more about you than about me though, that you think that these particular things define Space Marines.

Also? She.

 Melissia wrote:
My disdain for spiky marines, which GW often depicts as one-note villains who revel in villainy, is quite open. As is my disdain for the primarchs being force-fed in to 40k, alongside my disdain for the very concept of "primaris" marines. And I'm hardly alone in disliking how so many other things are ignored so that they can just say "spess muhreenz" a bunch.

You're free to try to claim that me liking these ridiculous things means I must hate all things space marine, if you really want. Says more about you than about me though, that you think that these particular things define Space Marines.

Also? She.

My apologies.

However, my comment was mearly commenting on your over use of the word marines in your comment suggesting that you have some kind of disliking towards marines rather than the face value commenting on GW overuse of marines although if your comments over use of marines was clever parody of GWs over use of Marines then your comment is shows tremendous intelligence for having several layers of commentary in a comment but if neither of these comments apply to your comment then this comment serves no purpose as a comment. What is you comment on that?

My comment about "the mariniest marines that ever marined your marines in the marines with their marines" was about Primaris Marines. Which are advertised as being to Space Marines what Space Marines are to humans, thus, Marines^Marines.

We're really off topic at this point

I remember the days when Dreadknights wer marine^marine. I also remember when Centurions were marine^marine.

Maybe it's a thing GW needs to do to push marines each edition: here's a marine in big marime armour that kind of looks like a baby carrier, here's a marine wearing another set of armour over his power armour and here's a marine that is a bit taller (btw I checked the Primaris models and the only reason they are taller is because they are wearing heels. I wish I was joking).
At least they're getting more subtle with each marine^marine.

 Melissia wrote:

We're really off topic at this point

Would it help if I said these marines had spiky bits?

Problem with the new DG is they aren't disturbing enough. Not enough guts, maggots, gore, pus bubbles etc. The tentacles and spikes/horns everywhere is just cartoony and its too much on some of these models. I was a kid when I got into 40k. But I loved it so much because of how gritty and disturbing some of it was. By removing that they are in a sense tripping out older fans. I'm only 24 years old but I can definitely see a change in the tone/art of 40k. Especially when I got into it with the second iteration of chaos marines in 3rd ed, and later in 4th.

I still haven't totally forgiven GW for what they did to the Daemonettes and Slaanesh as a whole, then they butchered the Necrons fluff entirely. They have had some serious missteps along the way.

given the DG are intended for a starter set they proably fiogurd being ocvered in a ton of obvious flies and maggots was bad marketing

What age are kids allowed to start working in England?

 Thargrim wrote:
Problem with the new DG is they aren't disturbing enough. Not enough guts, maggots, gore, pus bubbles etc. The tentacles and spikes/horns everywhere is just cartoony and its too much on some of these models. I was a kid when I got into 40k. But I loved it so much because of how gritty and disturbing some of it was. By removing that they are in a sense tripping out older fans. I'm only 24 years old but I can definitely see a change in the tone/art of 40k. Especially when I got into it with the second iteration of chaos marines in 3rd ed, and later in 4th.

I still haven't totally forgiven GW for what they did to the Daemonettes and Slaanesh as a whole, then they butchered the Necrons fluff entirely. They have had some serious missteps along the way.

Back when things were edgy.... *Remembers leopard print Noise marines*

 Thargrim wrote:
Problem with the new DG is they aren't disturbing enough. Not enough guts, maggots, gore, pus bubbles etc. The tentacles and spikes/horns everywhere is just cartoony and its too much on some of these models. I was a kid when I got into 40k. But I loved it so much because of how gritty and disturbing some of it was. By removing that they are in a sense tripping out older fans. I'm only 24 years old but I can definitely see a change in the tone/art of 40k. Especially when I got into it with the second iteration of chaos marines in 3rd ed, and later in 4th.

I still haven't totally forgiven GW for what they did to the Daemonettes and Slaanesh as a whole, then they butchered the Necrons fluff entirely. They have had some serious missteps along the way.

Then by all means, model them how you wish. Feel free to embellish your models with the viscera that you miss so much, but don't rain on the parades of the kids that you may play against in flgs because their headcanon for 40k doesn't match yours. If you want to, use Fantasy Catapults in place of artillery. Paint tits on your daemonettes. Paint your AM to look like Nazi SS penal platoons. Just restrain yourself from pointing out the genesis of your ideas.

And if an older player sees your conversions when playing you and says, "DUDE!" Grin, then go for a pint with him\her afterwards. . . regardless of who wins.
Have you ever watched 'Watchmen' with kids before? Do you point out to them that Dr. Manhattan's junk is swinging in the breeze the entire movie? Or do you let them enjoy the movie because that particular tidbit is unlikely to be noticed by them until it is pointed out (as it was for me)?

 NenkotaMoon wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
Problem with the new DG is they aren't disturbing enough. Not enough guts, maggots, gore, pus bubbles etc. The tentacles and spikes/horns everywhere is just cartoony and its too much on some of these models. I was a kid when I got into 40k. But I loved it so much because of how gritty and disturbing some of it was. By removing that they are in a sense tripping out older fans. I'm only 24 years old but I can definitely see a change in the tone/art of 40k. Especially when I got into it with the second iteration of chaos marines in 3rd ed, and later in 4th.

I still haven't totally forgiven GW for what they did to the Daemonettes and Slaanesh as a whole, then they butchered the Necrons fluff entirely. They have had some serious missteps along the way.

Back when things were edgy.... *Remembers leopard print Noise marines*

Anytime people say the old models were all pretty disturbing and gritty I just tend to point to the old Carnifex.

More than anything, I think the highlights on every edge of the models makes the GW paint jobs look terribad and lend to the cartoony effect. Especially on the marines (and Chaos marines), it's too stark.

As for 40K's age rating, I got into the game when I was still a 'kid' myself, back in Rogue Trader days. It's never been quite an adult's game, more aimed for a 15-20 year old demographic, though 40K's overall demographic has been aging.

If you want proof, look at the pictures at the beginning of the new rules book, and the age of the folks pictured playing (with the joker-like grins stitched to their face...). GW is expecting the people who pick up the book to be in that age demographic.

The aim is kids who are just old enough to get their first part-time/casual job, kids who will buy what their parents wouldn't buy for them just because their parents wouldn't buy it for them.
Look at the grimdark themes, pseudo horror mixed with humour and tropes, it's like a reflection of the internet.

 Thargrim wrote:
Problem with the new DG is they aren't disturbing enough. Not enough guts, maggots, gore, pus bubbles etc. The tentacles and spikes/horns everywhere is just cartoony and its too much on some of these models. I was a kid when I got into 40k. But I loved it so much because of how gritty and disturbing some of it was. By removing that they are in a sense tripping out older fans. I'm only 24 years old but I can definitely see a change in the tone/art of 40k. Especially when I got into it with the second iteration of chaos marines in 3rd ed, and later in 4th.

I still haven't totally forgiven GW for what they did to the Daemonettes and Slaanesh as a whole, then they butchered the Necrons fluff entirely. They have had some serious missteps along the way.

This ia exactly what I'm talking about. Where are the entrails and fear engines? Choas should look like canible Corpse album. Not a Disney cartoon.



Vs above picture

looks pretty doable if you paint the plague marines right.

Yes, its easy enough to paint things a bit darker to you themes.
My own personal opinion i think that mini above is just kind of bland with its paint job.

 ForceChoke wrote:
Anyone else getting a cartoon vibe?

Really hope it's limited in scope. New models look very hard to kitbash. But easy to paint. Like the extra wide shoot me here necks on primaris marines. Are they going to continue to have easy to paint cartoons for kids or models that you can kitbash/ repose /convert.

I liked the art style in 5th 6th 7th. This new direction easy to paint cartoons with low model counts on the table isn't really what 40k is about. At least not for me.

40k isn't for kids. Stop Infantilising 40k . We don't want pokemon/yugio 40k

Are we really having a thread about the lack of posing options in the starter box? Really? There has never been options for the box, it came with whatever sas in it and that was it. Now when the actual multi-part kits come out, if they follow the starter's lack of options, then we have a valid complaint, but frankly this is a silly complaint at the moment. I mean go look at the last box with Dark Angels and Crimson Slaughter. No options, no posing outside of what already existed and generally painted cleaner than most people actually paint CSM.

 Galas wrote:
Warhammer is for kids. If we want the game to survive it need to appeal to kids.

This entitlement of "this games is for me and only for me and he should catter to my tastes!" is like saying that Lego should look to catter to the 30 years old now that 20 years ago played with them. No, times changes, and many times is not problem of the product, is that you have grow older and don't find it appealing. That doesn't mean that it is a bad product or should catter to you.

Kids who have jobs and disposable income. My grandfather always said that "growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional"

And have you seen some of the stuff Lego is coming out with? They are catering some to the older demographic of customers. Heck, the kits are so expensive as to make Warhammer look like an inexpensive hobby.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Are we really having a thread about the lack of posing options in the starter box?

wait. . . is that what this thread was about? Then yes, the OP is being unreasonable. It is a reason to pay a premium for models not in starter sets; you can pose them as you wish. If your entire collection is made of models from starters, then you get what you paid for.

 ForceChoke wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
Problem with the new DG is they aren't disturbing enough. Not enough guts, maggots, gore, pus bubbles etc. The tentacles and spikes/horns everywhere is just cartoony and its too much on some of these models. I was a kid when I got into 40k. But I loved it so much because of how gritty and disturbing some of it was. By removing that they are in a sense tripping out older fans. I'm only 24 years old but I can definitely see a change in the tone/art of 40k. Especially when I got into it with the second iteration of chaos marines in 3rd ed, and later in 4th.

I still haven't totally forgiven GW for what they did to the Daemonettes and Slaanesh as a whole, then they butchered the Necrons fluff entirely. They have had some serious missteps along the way.

This ia exactly what I'm talking about. Where are the entrails and fear engines? Choas should look like canible Corpse album. Not a Disney cartoon.



Vs above picture

Said picture is a conversion using a Fantasy model. 40k Nurgle has traditionally been less "gutsy" outside of Daemons and FW:


don,t get me wrong, I have converted DG of my own with ropey GS entrails hanging out and the like, but let's not pretent that the offical DG ever really went this route.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 carldooley wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Are we really having a thread about the lack of posing options in the starter box?

wait. . . is that what this thread was about? Then yes, the OP is being unreasonable. It is a reason to pay a premium for models not in starter sets; you can pose them as you wish. If your entire collection is made of models from starters, then you get what you paid for.

He was complaining about a lack of posing options on the kits, so yeah, it looked like it to me.

 carldooley wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Are we really having a thread about the lack of posing options in the starter box?

wait. . . is that what this thread was about? Then yes, the OP is being unreasonable. It is a reason to pay a premium for models, not in starter sets; you can pose them as you wish. If your entire collection is made of models from starters, then you get what you paid for.

I was INFORMED EARLIER IN THE THREAD THAT THEY ARE SNAP FIT. So we addressed that. . It seems you're really trying to MANIPULATE the words I typed to mean something they do not. Taking the entire point out of context.

However, it seems to be that some fanboys are doing that thing they do when you have a personal subjective opinion that they don't agree with. They start a lynch mob. Which is honestly immature. NO ONE IS ATTACKING THE GAME. I SUPPORT GW STILL. Christ.

Honestly, the amount of NO YOUR WRONG I'M GONNA TELL MY MOMMY. is getting out of hand. I don't honestly care about who's subjective opinion differs from mine. No one is wrong. You think they don't look cartoonish. I do. Other do as well. No one is right or wrong. The LOT of you need to grow the up.

There are fans that feel that it looks cartoonish. There are fans who do not.

The argument that war game is for children does not hold a lot of water with some older fans. None of the older fans want the game to be An MOBA. Or an Overwatch Game. Or whatever multiplayer the kids are playing today.

"Your Opinion is wrong because It's not exactly like mine" Is all I'm hearing. I might as well be facing down a lynch mob of KKK saying "HE'S NOT THE RIGHT COLOR" Threads done. WHO KNEW A SUBJECTIVE VIEWPOINT COULD BE INCORRECT... It's Art. ART IS SUBJECTIVE... It's like trying to talk to Trump Supporters or Social Justice Warriors. YOU DO ALL UNDERSTAND THE WORD SUBJECTIVE RIGHT? DId you all miss that or forget how to READ??

This shows us that GW will never please everyone lol.

Chaos player: We need new models.
GW: How about these cool new demons?
Chaos player: No we meant Marines.
GW: okay, what about these very detailed plague guys?
Chaos player: No looks to silly.
GW: ... sigh... Blight drone?
Chaos player: No no one wants that.
GW: Screw it I'm making a sweet looking Repulser Tank.
Space Marine Player: Ew we need more fluffy models.
Sisters player: FFS !!!

 ForceChoke wrote:

Well, we figured out that there will be kits that are not snap fit. The Thread is about the Cartoonish looking Death Guard. More than one person agrees that the aesthetic is Cartoonish. However, it seems to be that many many fanboys are doing that thing they do when you have a personal subjective opinion that does not agree with your own. They start jumping on a lynch mob.

Honestly, the amount of NO YOUR WRONG I'M GONA TELL MOMMY. is getting out of hand. I don't honestly care about who's subjective opinion differs from mine. No one is wrong. You think they don't look cartoonish. I do. Other do as well. No one is right or wrong. The LOT of you need to grow the up.

There are fans that feel that it looks cartoonish.

The argument that war game is for children does not hold a lot of water with some older fans.

"Your Opinion is wrong because It's not exactly like mine" Is all I'm hearing. I might as well be facing down a lynch mob of KKK saying "HE'S NOT THE RIGHT COLOR" Threads done. WHO KNEW A SUBJECTIVE VIEWPOINT COULD BE INCORRECT... It's Art. ART IS SUBJECIVE...

Good lord. People disagree with you so you play the victim card? Your OP was mainly about how the new starter set lacks choice and options from a modeling perspective, which is patently absurd considering that every starter set so far has been the same.

It's funny how the person who is complaining about people crying is the one who posts in the tone of a child throwing a tantrum while attacking thr character of others and claiming to be the one being attacked....

That said, there are darker images in the pre-order stuff for the Dark Imperium box that show a darker color scheme (I almost expect the lighter one is due to color balances being adjusted in post to show off model details rather than an attempt to make anything "cartoony". It's the same logic why models tend to be painted in brighter colors rather than darker ones hen they have a lot of defail to show off):


So yeah, color makes a difference.

I mean hell, the Primaris marines looked better painted like Black Templars they do as Ultra Marines. A paint scheme is often all it takes to change the more toyetic look of the model into one that represents something more "real" in design,

 Luciferian wrote:

 ForceChoke wrote:

Well, we figured out that there will be kits that are not snap fit. The Thread is about the Cartoonish looking Death Guard. More than one person agrees that the aesthetic is Cartoonish. However, it seems to be that many many fanboys are doing that thing they do when you have a personal subjective opinion that does not agree with your own. They start jumping on a lynch mob.

Honestly, the amount of NO YOUR WRONG I'M GONA TELL MOMMY. is getting out of hand. I don't honestly care about who's subjective opinion differs from mine. No one is wrong. You think they don't look cartoonish. I do. Other do as well. No one is right or wrong. The LOT of you need to grow the up.

There are fans that feel that it looks cartoonish.

The argument that war game is for children does not hold a lot of water with some older fans.

"Your Opinion is wrong because It's not exactly like mine" Is all I'm hearing. I might as well be facing down a lynch mob of KKK saying "HE'S NOT THE RIGHT COLOR" Threads done. WHO KNEW A SUBJECTIVE VIEWPOINT COULD BE INCORRECT... It's Art. ART IS SUBJECTIVE...

Good lord. People disagree with you so you play the victim card? Your OP was mainly about how the new starter set lacks choice and options from a modeling perspective, which is patently absurd considering that every starter set so far has been the same.

No one is playing a victim card. This is the putting words in peoples mouths I was talking about. I was pointing out at the stupidity of trying to turn a subjective opinion into an argument. Enough.. Get over it.

For the record, if someone doesn't want their viewpoint challenged, they sould probably just not post it on the internet...

I just don't see the problem in this, the new models look fine to me.

usmcmidn wrote:
This shows us that GW will never please everyone lol.

Chaos player: We need new models.
GW: How about these cool new demons?
Chaos player: No we meant Marines.
GW: okay, what about these very detailed plague guys?
Chaos player: No looks to silly.
GW: ... sigh... Blight drone?
Chaos player: No no one wants that.
GW: Screw it I'm making a sweet looking Repulser Tank.
Space Marine Player: Ew we need more fluffy models.
Sisters player: FFS !!!

Funny thing is that I love the new Death Guard models (especailly the Bloat Drone) but since I'm not running Death Guard I am declining to oick them up for the moment.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

usmcmidn wrote:
This shows us that GW will never please everyone lol.

Chaos player: We need new models.
GW: How about these cool new demons?
Chaos player: No we meant Marines.
GW: okay, what about these very detailed plague guys?
Chaos player: No looks to silly.
GW: ... sigh... Blight drone?
Chaos player: No no one wants that.
GW: Screw it I'm making a sweet looking Repulser Tank.
Space Marine Player: Ew we need more fluffy models.
Sisters player: FFS !!!

Funny thing is that I love the new Death Guard models (especailly the Bloat Drone) but since I'm not running Death Guard I am declining to oick them up for the moment.

And in the end, the real victim is the SoB player.