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http://www.3plusplus.net/2017/06/dark-angels-space-wovles-full-8th-edition-rules/

Looking over it all i'm fairly happy we've had some good improvements:

-Bloodclaws now have 3+ in melee which will be a boost
-Wolflord on thunderwolf has 4 attacks and 7 wounds plus the mounts attacks aswell all around pretty sweet
-Canis just makes your wolves brutal
-Healing balms are nice for priests
-Iron priests on thunderwolves are tasty with the tempest hammer
-Scouts are once again useful able to pop up nearly anywhere with special weapons and heavy weapons
-Wulfen arn't cheap but remain great for buffing other units and with no instant death will be much harder to shift
-Lone wolves are pretty fantastic 4+ fnp and a wulfen ability to always strike once more before he's removed
-Thunder wolves are W3 now and while the rider lost an attack you get it back from the mount
-longfang wolfguard can take weapons from terminator heavy weapons thats new i think

Cons:
- fenrisian wolves will die hard to battleshock

Over all i'm pretty happy how we stand what do you think?

hobojebus wrote:


-longfang wolfguard can take weapons from terminator heavy weapons thats new i think

I was excited to see the possibility of the missile massacre lists from 5th/6th edition coming back, then I saw the point cost total.
A single wolf guard terminator with cyclone launcher for 87pt with minimum gear for two extra missiles with 36" range is really expensive.

Still, 30 missiles round 1 for 1200p (or 1722 and 42 missiles w/ embedded Termies) with just 6x5+1 Long Fangs should bring a lot of hurt. Vanilla Devs are 1020p for 6 missiles less and no option to embed Cyclone Termies.

Blizzard Shield lost it's facing requirement, Great Axe loses 2 S and 2 AP, but gains +1 Attack and d6 Damage so that is a 3+/3++/6+FnP that can be repaired by Iron Priests
Rune Priests can get 5++ (4++ for TA) fairly cheaply
Harald Deathwolf is cheaper and 2+/2++ vs Shooting (lack of mention of storm shield in the item blurb is probably an editorial error since it is included in the rules box with his name on it), 2 AP (changes to power weapons), -1 A and -1 S (thunderwolf changes) and gets a D2 Frost Axe with a chance to cause a mortal wound.
Grey Hunters get their chainswords for free (why not just include it in the item blurb?)

And those are just what popped out to my eye. With army-wide special rules getting tossed out of the window and the points values staying the same without including wargear costs results in a lot of price increases on units and that is before having to repurchase their wargear, a lot of which got more expensive (heavy weapons especially).

The grey hunter thing makes no sense to me either its not like you'd ever not do it.

As for cost of wolfguard they seem hell bent on getting away from spamming heavy weapons which I'm okay with I want a melee army.

The couple things SW have that cought my eye are:

Long Fangs re-rolling 1s to hit vs their chosen target means they don't need a wolf lord babysitting them like other SM might. A WGBL to reroll the wounds is good though, and cheap.

TWC and Wulfen are as good as ever.

Blood claws may now be the backbone of the army.

Grey hunters and wolf guard seem solid, but also expensive for what they do and how easy they die.

Wolf Lords, Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, and Wolf Priests for re-rolls are all extremely useful.

Thunderwolves no longer have access to S10.
The only vanilla Wolf Lords we can get are on Thunderwolves.
Murderfang is a BEAST!
Lukas the Trickster is still slow but due to being on the better side of the loss of Challenges is totally capable of mass murder.
Grey Hunters are solid as ever.
Curse of the Wulfen lost the randomness but kept the best parts as buffs.
Flyers still suck.
After finding out what the Teleport Homing Beacon does in 8th I was mortified to find out the Wolves no longer have access to them.
Wolf Scouts became amazing.
Fenrisian Wolves got more expensive and lost speed.
Looking for reasons not to build a Shield/Axe Ven Dread and not finding one.
SWIFTCLAWS.
Wolf Priests on bikes healing balms backing TWC will be brilliant.

I like most changes
BUT

the Grey Hunters rules just showed that GW did not care
I mean giving them a was a change in 5th when GW tried to remove all unit special rules in flavour of USR

So with the new rules, they don't need the Pistol any more to get their +1 Attack for just having Bolter+Chainsword
But they kept the basic point cost higher than for Tactical Marines, kept the Pistol and made the Sword optional
WTF
completely missing the point of Grey Hunters, being the losers of 8th with the changes to Blood Claws

PS:
some people miss the first page of SW rules
we can take vanilla Dreads and Lords, we just need to use the vanilla profile in generic list (there is a list of what units can be taken as Space Wolves from the generic SM list)

those pistols can fire when in melee, having a chainsword AND a pistol isn't a bad thing. as someone with a chaos army I'm a little salty that grey hunters get a boltgun, bolt pistol, AND chain sword.

BrianDavion wrote:
those pistols can fire when in melee, having a chainsword AND a pistol isn't a bad thing. as someone with a chaos army I'm a little salty that grey hunters get a boltgun, bolt pistol, AND chain sword.

the point is not that it is bad but that the sword should be default and the pistol optional (or not there) there is no point why they should have all 3 weapons
they just did not care what the unit is about when writing the rules but did only a 1:1 transformation of the last codex

 kodos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
those pistols can fire when in melee, having a chainsword AND a pistol isn't a bad thing. as someone with a chaos army I'm a little salty that grey hunters get a boltgun, bolt pistol, AND chain sword.

the point is not that it is bad but that the sword should be default and the pistol optional (or not there) there is no point why they should have all 3 weapons
they just did not care what the unit is about when writing the rules but did only a 1:1 transformation of the last codex

They have had all three weapons since at least 5th, being able to buy Chainswords to carry along with the Pistol and Bolter made the Grey Hunters a unit that could fire twenty four inches, drop a round of bolt pistols before charging, rapid fire in overwatch and get three attacks per model on the charge and in response to charges and two attacks normally. Before 6th edition when Apocalypse units were dumped in Standard and Assault was needed for a vehicle to be useful a Rhino full of Grey Hunters packing a Wolf Standard was something that needed to be forced off an objective by at least equal points rather than blown away by any stray blast.

Just having a look at the list for a friend who is thinking of doing SW, and I might be being blind but I can't see any Dreadnoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah no I see, they can take Dreadnoughts. So do they get any SW-specific weapons for dreads?

 Doge_Read wrote:
Just having a look at the list for a friend who is thinking of doing SW, and I might be being blind but I can't see any Dreadnoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah no I see, they can take Dreadnoughts. So do they get any SW-specific weapons for dreads?

Yes, they can take a fenrisian great axe and a blizzard shield. or they can carry a hellfrost cannon and a great wolf claw if they want.

Mleander wrote:

 Doge_Read wrote:
Just having a look at the list for a friend who is thinking of doing SW, and I might be being blind but I can't see any Dreadnoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah no I see, they can take Dreadnoughts. So do they get any SW-specific weapons for dreads?

Yes, they can take a fenrisian great axe and a blizzard shield. or they can carry a hellfrost cannon and a great wolf claw if they want.

Don't be forgetting Bjorn and Murderfang.

Will be nice to run dreads again then died way to fast the last two editions.

hobojebus wrote:
Will be nice to run dreads again then died way to fast the last two editions.

Distraction Carnifexes.
Dread, Lucius Pod, PF with HFlamer and Multimelta.
155 points for a nasty surprise on your first turn, cleans out troops, busts up vehicles and demands attention.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Will be nice to run dreads again then died way to fast the last two editions.

Distraction Carnifexes.
Dread, Lucius Pod, PF with HFlamer and Multimelta.
155 points for a nasty surprise on your first turn, cleans out troops, busts up vehicles and demands attention.

Can pods still come in first turn? Drop Pod Assault got changed didn't it?

 Doge_Read wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Will be nice to run dreads again then died way to fast the last two editions.

Distraction Carnifexes.
Dread, Lucius Pod, PF with HFlamer and Multimelta.
155 points for a nasty surprise on your first turn, cleans out troops, busts up vehicles and demands attention.

Can pods still come in first turn? Drop Pod Assault got changed didn't it?

They arrive when you say they do.
Bigger issue is Dreads can no longer board a Pod.

I can defently say that Wolfpriest in terminator armor for healing and rerolling hits for Ajac and Wolfguard, along with Wulfen is awsome stuff. I defenetly felt abit cheesy when i fielded Arjac, Wolfguard, Land Raider Crusader, Wolf Priests, Wulfen and Murderfang.

Space Wolves are in a good spot

 Brutallica wrote:
I can defently say that Wolfpriest in terminator armor for healing and rerolling hits for Ajac and Wolfguard, along with Wulfen is awsome stuff. I defenetly felt abit cheesy when i fielded Arjac, Wolfguard, Land Raider Crusader, Wolf Priests, Wulfen and Murderfang.

Space Wolves are in a good spot

Solid.
Guard still scare the spit out of us.

What do you guys think of the Headstrong special rule for the BC's? They HAVE to charge the enemy as soon as they get within 12 inches of an enemy. Potentially getting overwatched and failing their charge. Unless they bring a WGPL.

That's not that hard to get around, if you got within 12" and weren't going to charge that round, you'd be risking a counter charge as is, which would deny them both first strike and their unique extra attack.

Thunderwolves adding three attacks of their own is a bit of a step down compared to the buffs they offered before. It does mean you've got a lot more attacks stock, but notably weaker attacks. Power and frost weapons are cheaper on them, but you are only getting two attacks with said weapons, as opposed to the 5-6 you would before.

Wulfen look to be even better on the other hand.

At the moment I tend to use 1-2 units of Wulfen with 2 full Squads of Blood Claws supported by 2 priest and WG on Bikes with Combi Melter and Land Speeder with heavy flamers as support

Mleander wrote:
What do you guys think of the Headstrong special rule for the BC's? They HAVE to charge the enemy as soon as they get within 12 inches of an enemy. Potentially getting overwatched and failing their charge. Unless they bring a WGPL.

I always would take a Wolf Guard for Blood Claws
Who let the trainees out with out their drill Sergeant?

I looked through the index at my FLGW-Store.

A few models have wonky options that prevent taking twin wolf claws (Lone Wolves, TWC) or really any two weapons off of the SW melee weapons list. I'm not sure if it was done on purpose (to prevent Hammer/Claw spam) but not being able to run a twin-claw lone wolf seems a bit off.

I'm painting up new Space Wolves after a long absence it looks like I will need to add some Icons to grey hunter packs.

 kodos wrote:
At the moment I tend to use 1-2 units of Wulfen with 2 full Squads of Blood Claws supported by 2 priest and WG on Bikes with Combi Melter and Land Speeder with heavy flamers as support

Mleander wrote:
What do you guys think of the Headstrong special rule for the BC's? They HAVE to charge the enemy as soon as they get within 12 inches of an enemy. Potentially getting overwatched and failing their charge. Unless they bring a WGPL.

I always would take a Wolf Guard for Blood Claws
Who let the trainees out with out their drill Sergeant?

Guilty, my Skyclaws harassed enemy units with Flamers, getting a pack leader involved upped their cost when they only needed to be a tempting target.
You've only got to be within 6" of a friendly Wolf Guard model to keep them in check, still crushes my use for them though.

I'm also guilty, and for the exact same reason.

yellowfever wrote:
I'm also guilty, and for the exact same reason.

*Fistbump*
Wonderfully versatile, throw a frag grenade, drop two flame templates then take pot shots with the bolt pistols Guard, Eldar and Tau would feel that good, if they could laugh that off give them a krack grenade and four bolt pistols. You could use them to soak overwatch away from other units. If they couldn't hurt anything of the enemy army Deepstrike and high mobility made them great late game objective snaggers.
Just 85 points.

2 questions.

Now if i have a squad of 5 Bloodclaws (1 packleader and 4 regular bloodclaws) and wanna add a vanilla Wolf Guard Pack Leader to that unit, is that only 16 points extra? or how does it work?

And second for the Skyclaws. Whats is a Wolf Guard Sky Leader? Is it also just 16 points extra or is it a WGPL + a jump pack?

Mleander wrote:
2 questions.

Now if i have a squad of 5 Bloodclaws (1 packleader and 4 regular bloodclaws) and wanna add a vanilla Wolf Guard Pack Leader to that unit, is that only 16 points extra? or how does it work?

And second for the Skyclaws. Whats is a Wolf Guard Sky Leader? Is it also just 16 points extra or is it a WGPL + a jump pack?

That will hopefully be a FAQ soon.
I paid for a Wolf Guard with Jump Pack and tacked it on, seemed logical.

I say they cost the same as a Blood Claw because Wolf Guard Pack Leaders in TDA hav a cost listed for each squad that could take them. Power armored ones not, so they cost he same as the rest of the models in the unit.

I think Grey Hunters are better than Blood Claws. Only 1 point more but much better firepower and versatility. the only thing they lose is 1 attack on the charge. The banner is also nice.

Scouts are also nifty to prevent the enemy from disengaging from your melee units.

Ragnar69 wrote:
I say they cost the same as a Blood Claw because Wolf Guard Pack Leaders in TDA hav a cost listed for each squad that could take them. Power armored ones not, so they cost he same as the rest of the models in the unit.

I think Grey Hunters are better than Blood Claws. Only 1 point more but much better firepower and versatility. the only thing they lose is 1 attack on the charge. The banner is also nice.

Scouts are also nifty to prevent the enemy from disengaging from your melee units.

Interesting use for the Scouts.

Can no modells take a pair of Wolf claws or can every model that can take an item form the Space Wolves melee wapon list chose to take a pair. I feel its not clear in the index. Or am i missing somerhing?