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Here's what I'm starting with for 8th:

BATTALION DETACHMENT

HQ
Mephiston
Sanguinary Priest w/ Power Fist, Bolt Pistol

ELITE
Sanguinary Guard x4 w/ 4 Swords, 4 Angelus Boltguns

TROOPS
Tactical x5 w/ Meltagun, Axe
Tactical x5 w/ Meltagun, Sword
Scouts x5 w/ 4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Razorback w/ AssCans, Storm Bolter
Razorback w/ Flamer, Storm Bolter

FLYER
Stormraven w/ AssCans, Multi-melta, 2 Stormstrike Missiles, 2 Hurricane Bolters

HEAVY
Vindicator w/ Demolisher Cannon, Storm Bolter

VANGUARD DETACHMENT

HQ
Lemartes

ELITE
Death Company x5 w/ jump packs, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, 1 Thunderhammer, 1 Power Sword, 1 Inferno Pistol
Death Company Dreadnought w/ Furioso Fists, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Magnagrapple
Sanguinary Guard Ancient w/ Plasma Pistol, Axe, Death Mask

2,000 Points on the nose. 7 Command Points.

----------

Priest, Ancient, and Guard in 1st group. Priest is the warlord so Sang Guard can use Heirs of Azkaellon.

Lemartes and Death Company in 2nd group.

This gives me some flexibility with deployment. Either Sang Guard, Death Company, or Meph can go in the Raven. I could Deep Strike Sang Guard or Death Company. If I wanted Meph in the Raven with one of those units, I could just Deep Strike Lemartes or the Ancient to join them in melee if I needed to and plan ahead.

Raven flies in shooting at heavily armored targets and drops off the Dread. Vindicator focuses on heavy armor as well. Tacs and Scouts grab objectives. Death Company can drop in for first turn charge with Lemartes or I can hold off for a turn 2 charge coordinated with Death Company, Sang Guard, Dread, and Meph. Second Razorback with AssCans thins out light armor/troops. Scouts infiltrate and focus on characters with sniper rifles.

So the low model count on Sang Guard and Death Company worries me a little. Hopefully Priest can heal them up. Also worry about the Vindicator doing anything worthwhile. Seems kinda underwhelming in this edition with hitting on a 4+ if I move and only Heavy D3. Might swap out for a Dev Squad. Thoughts?

I don't know why you would take angelus bolters when plasma pistols are cheaper, can be used even within 1" of the enemy and can be bumped up to 2dmg without too much worry of dying cause of easily acquired re-rolls to hit.

same with inferno pistols, they're almost 3x the cost of plasma pistols!

Taffy17 wrote:
I don't know why you would take angelus bolters when plasma pistols are cheaper, can be used even within 1" of the enemy and can be bumped up to 2dmg without too much worry of dying cause of easily acquired re-rolls to hit.

same with inferno pistols, they're almost 3x the cost of plasma pistols!

I took Angelus Boltguns because that's how my guys were modeled. I was trying to be a stickler for WYSIWYG, but yeah I switched it up. Had the same issue with the Inferno Pistols.

I'm also officially ready to declare the Vindicator dead in 8th Edition. Totally trumped by a Predator with Lascannon Sponsons and a Predator Autocannon. Comfortably sits at 48" away dropping 2d3 shots at S7 AP-1 D 3. Plus, you get 2 Lascannons at S9 AP-3 D D6. Contrast that with a tank that needs to be within 24" D3 shots at S10 AP-3 D D6. Pred is only 40 more points. Who in their right mind would take a Vindicator now? Here's the updated list.

BATTALION DETACHMENT

HQ
Mephiston
Sanguinary Priest w/ Power Fist, Plasma Pistol

ELITE
Sanguinary Guard x4 w/ 4 Swords, 4 Plasma Pistols

TROOPS
Tactical x5 w/ Heavy Flamer, Power Sword
Tactical x5 w/ Plasma Gun
Scouts x5 w/ 4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Razorback w/ AssCans, Storm Bolter
Razorback w/ Flamer, Storm Bolter

FLYER
Stormraven w/ AssCans, Multi-melta, 2 Stormstrike Missiles, 2 Hurricane Bolters

HEAVY
Predator w/ Pred Autocannon, 2 Lascannons

VANGUARD DETACHMENT

HQ
Lemartes

ELITE
Death Company x5 w/ jump packs, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, 1 Thunderhammer, 1 Power Sword
Death Company Dreadnought w/ Furioso Fists, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Magnagrapple
Sanguinary Guard Ancient w/ Plasma Pistol, Axe, Death Mask

1999 Points. 7 Command Points.

The AssCans will deliver us! Looks pretty fun; I'm a huge fan of Mephiston even in this new age of Psychic nerfing.

Unsure where it says we have to pay for Sanguinary Guard Angelus bolters? It says they come standard with that wargear.

Edit: nevermind. Found it.

Updated list. My points were off.

BATTALION DETACHMENT

HQ
Mephiston
Sanguinary Priest w/ Power Fist, Plasma Pistol

ELITE
Sanguinary Guard x4 w/ 4 Swords, 4 Plasma Pistols

TROOPS
Tactical x5 w/ Heavy Flamer, Power Sword
Tactical x5 w/ Plasma Gun
Scouts x5 w/ 4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Razorback w/ AssCans, Storm Bolter
Razorback w/ Flamer, Storm Bolter

FLYER
Stormraven w/ AssCans, Multi-melta, 2 Stormstrike Missiles, 2 Hurricane Bolters

HEAVY
Predator w/ Pred Autocannon, 2 Lascannons

VANGUARD DETACHMENT

HQ
Lemartes

ELITE
Death Company x5 w/ jump packs, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, 1 Thunderhammer, 1 Power Sword
Death Company Dreadnought w/ Furioso Fists, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun,
Sanguinary Guard Ancient w/ Plasma Pistol, Axe, Death Mask

1999 Points. 7 Command Points.

Isn't the brigade detachment +6 cp and the batallion just 3 cp?

Should only be 4 CP I believe, but the list looks very flexible.

 Aetare wrote:
Should only be 4 CP I believe, but the list looks very flexible.

Right. My bad. +3 and +1, but you do start with 3 so the total is 7. I'll edit it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BATTALION DETACHMENT (+3 Command Points)

HQ
Mephiston
Sanguinary Priest w/ Power Fist, Plasma Pistol

ELITE
Sanguinary Guard x4 w/ 4 Swords, 4 Plasma Pistols

TROOPS
Tactical x5 w/ Heavy Flamer, Power Sword
Tactical x5 w/ Plasma Gun
Scouts x5 w/ 4 Sniper Rifles, 1 Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Razorback w/ AssCans, Storm Bolter
Razorback w/ Flamer, Storm Bolter

FLYER
Stormraven w/ AssCans, Multi-melta, 2 Stormstrike Missiles, 2 Hurricane Bolters

HEAVY
Predator w/ Pred Autocannon, 2 Lascannons

VANGUARD DETACHMENT (+1 Command Point)

HQ
Lemartes

ELITE
Death Company x5 w/ jump packs, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, 1 Thunderhammer, 1 Power Sword
Death Company Dreadnought w/ Furioso Fists, Heavy Flamer, Meltagun,
Sanguinary Guard Ancient w/ Plasma Pistol, Axe, Death Mask

1999 Points. Command Points: 7

Hold up, you start with 3? Like everyone always has at least 3? I was not aware; that makes life easier

Let me know how it works. I don't have a good feel of what is needed until I start playing.

Commenting on the same thing, that's true just read it from the battle forged armies page 242. Don't know how I missed that..

I know this is not the right thread for this, but for you BA brothers I'm having hard time deciding what assault slots to take for the brigade. It's doable for 2000-2500 point margin, but I'm having trouble finding any nice units. BA assault marines lost their melta/plasma gun weapon upgrade, then it would be a no-brainer to make some alpha strike 2x melta combi-melta deep strike nuisances.. I hope the chapter codex will fix it, if there will be ever be one. Multi-melta assault bike seems over costed, land speeder with asscan maybe?

About your list, missile launcher pops up on the scout squad, but I find you having it for the same reason that my former lists last ed. when I had only one squad with the load out above. I'd take all snipers any day.

Also the sanguinary guard ancient is a big question mark, I've list build some with the banner dude, but for the points are the command benefits really that good. Should do some math-hammering with the guy against some HQ/MC to see if his a beast in melee. Could he be used as "artificer captain" now that captain's lost that upgrade.

Xirax wrote:

I know this is not the right thread for this, but for you BA brothers I'm having hard time deciding what assault slots to take for the brigade. It's doable for 2000-2500 point margin, but I'm having trouble finding any nice units. BA assault marines lost their melta/plasma gun weapon upgrade, then it would be a no-brainer to make some alpha strike 2x melta combi-melta deep strike nuisances.. I hope the chapter codex will fix it, if there will be ever be one. Multi-melta assault bike seems over costed, land speeder with asscan maybe?

We can discuss it here I don't mind. Our Assault Marines definitely took a hit. If you want good assault, Vanguard Veterans with dual chainswords would be pretty bad ass. 4 attacks each. I'd give a relic blade and storm shield to the sergeant. Pound for pound, I think the Sanguinary Guard unit I have in my list is the best we can muster (more on them later). Death Company aren't as good, but they'll trash hordes and there is that psychological effect they have on people. They are terrified and love shooting at anything black with a red "x".

I respectfully disagee with Attack Bikes. Land Speeders and Attack Bikes have similar statlines, but Landspeeders get a couple more wounds. Attack Bike with Multi-melta is 74 points. At 12" that's 6 shots (4 from twin boltguns and 2 from pistols), plus the Multi-melta. Not bad. Big thing with Bikes is they get buffed by a Sanguinary Priest. Add him in there on a bike for extra durability. Land Speeder with a Multi-melta is 107. If you want to add an AssCan, that will take you up to 128 points which is kinda crazy. If you want to spray bullets, go with a Razorback with Twin AssCans for only 100 points. Far more durable, it can ferry troops and special characters across the field, and it's pumping out 12 shots a turn.

Xirax wrote:

About your list, missile launcher pops up on the scout squad, but I find you having it for the same reason that my former lists last ed. when I had only one squad with the load out above. I'd take all snipers any day.

Sure, but last edition the Missile Launcher had to shoot at the same thing as the snipers. Now he can shoot at whatever he wants. I think a Missile Launcher is possibly one of the most versatile weapons in the game. S8 AP-2 D6 wounds at 48" range is pretty huge in my book. It's pretty good against hordes as well. Just wanted some versatility here. I may remove it for another dude with a sniper. We'll see how it works.

Xirax wrote:

Also the sanguinary guard ancient is a big question mark, I've list build some with the banner dude, but for the points are the command benefits really that good. Should do some math-hammering with the guy against some HQ/MC to see if his a beast in melee. Could he be used as "artificer captain" now that captain's lost that upgrade.

I can see your point here. Some math hammering certainly would help.The Sanguinary Ancient is another Beat Stick with 4 wounds. My thoughts were Sanguinary Priest goes here and is the Warlord. That makes the unit rerolling hits from Heirs of Azkaellon, rerolling 1s to wound from the Chapter Banner (plasma FTW!), and +1 S from the Blood Chalice. That gives the unit a TON of damage potential since the Glaives do D3 wounds each and the Priest can heal them with the Narthecium. Also on the Priest, I think Power Fist is the way to go. He hits on a 2+ in melee. With the fist he hits on a 3+. Too good to pass up IMHO.

Not sure what I would replace him with. I like the idea of a Codex Librarian with Veil of Time and Null Zone, but he's pretty pricey with a Jump Pack. After I get a few games in, I'll post back and let everyone knows how it goes. Can't theory hammer this too much more from here. Have to get some games in.

ASM are dirt cheap. They still can take dual hand flamer and 2x flamer or dual infernus with 2x plasma pistol. And chainswords. They also benefit from all ba buffs. They are also a different slot than dc.

Martel732 wrote:
ASM are dirt cheap. They still can take dual hand flamer and 2x flamer or dual infernus with 2x plasma pistol. And chainswords. They also benefit from all ba buffs. They are also a different slot than dc.

Definitely dirt cheap. Dual Hand Flamers IMO are worthless. Too many points for a S3 attack. If they were S4 it would be a different story. Also, not a big fan of Inferno Pistols. At 20 points each, it'll cost 40 points to equip a 1 wound model with just a 3+ save. There is so much AP in this edition, that he'll die a pretty quick death. For another 60 points you can add a Razorback. I'll agree on Flamers and Plasma Pistols being good. If anything, I would keep them cheap like you already suggested. Losing the 2x special for us was a huge disappointment. I'm sure they'll get it back when the Codex rolls around tho.

Here's a question: In 7th, if I upgraded the Stormraven Heavy bolters to Multi-Meltas, it was free. If I upgrade in 8th, does it cost? If I added Typhoon Missile launcher in 7th it would cost 25 points. Anybody know how these upgrades work for match play set-ups?

 ciaotym wrote:
Here's a question: In 7th, if I upgraded the Stormraven Heavy bolters to Multi-Meltas, it was free. If I upgrade in 8th, does it cost? If I added Typhoon Missile launcher in 7th it would cost 25 points. Anybody know how these upgrades work for match play set-ups?

You pay for everything you use. If you replace an item for another, you ignore the cost of the item you are replacing, and only count the one you are using.

So it is Stormraven cost + Multi-Melta cost + Typhoon Missile Launcher cost, etc.

Thanks -

This is where I ended up. I was too worried about trying to run MSU. Almost every gun gives a modifier to armor saves now, and with no FNP to buff those models anymore I decided I needed more bodies.

Vanguard Detachment

Chief Librarian Mephiston (1) - 145pts
1 Mephiston

Lemartes (1) - 129pts
1 Lemartes: The Blood Crozius,Bolt pistol

Death Company (10) - 224pts
1 Death Company Marine: Thunder Hammer,Jump Pack
1 Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol,Power sword,Jump Pack
8 Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol,Chainsword,Jump Pack

Death Company Dreadnought (1) - 212pts
1 Death Company Dreadnought: Two Furioso fists, heavy flamer and meltagun,Smoke launchers

Vanguard Veteran Squad (10) - 205pts
1 Veteran Sergeant: Relic blade,Storm shield
2 Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword,Storm shield
1 Space Marine Veteran: Power sword,Bolt pistol
1 Space Marine Veteran: Power axe,Bolt pistol
5 Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword,Bolt pistol

Assault Squad (10) - 139pts
1 Space Marine Sergeant: Power sword,Bolt pistol,Melta bombs
9 Space Marine: Bolt pistol,Chainsword

Rhino (1) - 74pts
1 Rhino: 2 Storm bolters

Razorback (1) - 100pts
1 Razorback: Twin assault cannon

Predator (1) - 201pts
1 Predator: Predator autocannon,Two lascannons

Stormraven Gunship (1) - 311pts
1 Stormraven Gunship: Twin assault cannon,Twin multi-melta,2 Stormstrike missile launchers,Two hurricane bolter

Patrol Detachment

Brother Corbulo (1) - 94pts
1 Brother Corbulo

Tactical Squad (5) - 65pts
1 Sergeant: Bolt pistol,Boltgun
4 Space Marine: Bolt pistol,Boltgun

Razorback (1) - 100pts
1 Razorback: Twin assault cannon

4 Command Points
1999 points

Great thread and feedback from folks. I'm really hoping BA is better this edition as mine were retired in 6th.