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p5freak wrote: Yes, they are treated as reinforcements, but they arent deployed during deployment.
By that logic treated as reinforcements would that mean you can't summon turn 1 at all? Excuse my dyslexia but the way these rules are worded really confuses me.
p5freak wrote: Yes, they are treated as reinforcements, but they arent deployed during deployment.
By that logic treated as reinforcements would that mean you can't summon turn 1 at all? Excuse my dyslexia but the way these rules are worded really confuses me.
The daemons codex has got to be one of the worst books GW has released in 8th. Not talking about competitive strength necessarily, but in terms of clarity and editing. It's full of ambiguities, inconsistencies, and strange rules exceptions that are only sometimes addressed by the FAQs.
It was one of the first, but it introduced psyker squads (the unlike daemons can peril) without any explanation how perils works with them, and it was never faqed
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
Played in a RTT this weekend, and my roughest matchup was against GSC. (I stomped the triple-Shadowsword list, and slogged through a guard brigade and won).
If there were a single mistake I should have played differently, it would be giving Warp Surge to my Khorne Prince who charged a Patriarch. Ahriman charged a second Patriarch. Ahriman (with 3++) managed to kill his target (flat 3 is pretty good); but the other one interrupted and did exactly 8 wounds to Khorne. If I had Surge up, it would've done only 2-5 wounds. (I rolled a 1, a 2, and two 4s for my invulns)
Any other tips and tricks for playing against GSC?
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
Elric Greywolf wrote: Played in a RTT this weekend, and my roughest matchup was against GSC. (I stomped the triple-Shadowsword list, and slogged through a guard brigade and won).
If there were a single mistake I should have played differently, it would be giving Warp Surge to my Khorne Prince who charged a Patriarch. Ahriman charged a second Patriarch. Ahriman (with 3++) managed to kill his target (flat 3 is pretty good); but the other one interrupted and did exactly 8 wounds to Khorne. If I had Surge up, it would've done only 2-5 wounds. (I rolled a 1, a 2, and two 4s for my invulns)
Any other tips and tricks for playing against GSC?
make characters the prioroity unless they are positioned to use unquestioning loyalty and do not let GSC charge anything that isn't expendable because it will be getting deleted but they cannot take hits themselves.
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On another topic, I've been reading that instead of a Bloodthirster, putting in another Daemon Prince is a better choice. Should I take out my Unfettered Fury and put in a third DP?
Well.... we don’t know your list so can’t answer and then, if you like the model play with it.
It can be a distraction for the rest of your list and if you already have two DP you should have skullreaver and kings blade, or the Armour instead of the blade.
If it’s not dead yours T2 then have fun smashing things with him.
Personally I love DP and the greater daemons but have not tried a flying circus yet as I cannot seems to build a list I like on the paper yet.
On another topic, I've been reading that instead of a Bloodthirster, putting in another Daemon Prince is a better choice. Should I take out my Unfettered Fury and put in a third DP?
One bloodthirster can be a problem to run because it's the only big target on the board so draws all the fire from a decent gunline and dies turn 1. I find that lots of troops and daemon princes is the best way to run daemons or chaos in general. I run 4 DP in my list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/01 19:13:55
or you should play some big guys, like renegade Ik or another GD
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I want to add a BT to my Thousand sons Knights list. What is the best way to use him? It seems very important to be able to reroll charges for the model or not? Would a 9 inch charge with a gaze of fate reroll and potentially a command reroll be enough to get him into combat?
In the list below I have added a full Khorne battalion, but I feel like going a mixed battalion is probably stronger if getting the reroll charges is no that important. How does the list look?
Renegade Knight: Heavy stubber
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) ++
+ HQ +
Bloodmaster . Rules:Daemonic Ritual
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage: Armour of Scorn, Warlord
. Rules:Daemonic Ritual
That sure is a lot of deep striking melee threat, that's for sure. I actually kind of like that list.
I would actually take 1 unit of 25-30 bloodletters, drop the other two and take 2 nurgling units instead. This will save you enough points to upgrades the bloodmaster into a daemon prince with the relic axe. Bloodletter bombs need some cushion because you'll lose some on overwatch and multiples are a bit of overkill since you also have a tzaangor bomb.
On another topic, I've been reading that instead of a Bloodthirster, putting in another Daemon Prince is a better choice. Should I take out my Unfettered Fury and put in a third DP?
One bloodthirster can be a problem to run because it's the only big target on the board so draws all the fire from a decent gunline and dies turn 1. I find that lots of troops and daemon princes is the best way to run daemons or chaos in general. I run 4 DP in my list.
Alright, I might do that, though I do like my UF BT since it doesn't degrade from damage and is pretty brutal in melee. I could put in a third non-winged DP in my army which would free up 94 points. Those could either go for thirteen more Bloodletters, five Bloodletters and a third Skull Cannon, or a Skullmaster. Or I could simply replace the BT with Be'lakor, who has some unique DP abilities of his own.
Ok, here is the organization for my Khorne mono army (minus Be'lakor):
Warlord Battalion:
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] [Warlord] (Trait: Oblivious to Pain) (Artefact – Armour of Scorn)
Skulltaker [HQ]
Herald (Bloodmaster) [HQ]
4 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 12 Bloodletters
Be’lakor Battalion:
Be’lakor [HQ]
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons [HQ]
3 x 10 Bloodletters
I'm aware that this is not the best army organization, and I'm thinking of replacing Be'lakor with a regular DP and then using some more Bloodletters to guard my artillery (either 20 or 24 based on whether I take a DP with or without wings). Then there's my Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury which I removed since it tends to be a magnet for enemy fire, but it's pretty powerful and has some unique abilities. So I do have room for shifting certain models in and out the list. Any advice?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/05 17:50:33
One of the most powerful ways to run Bloodletters is the Letter Bomb, a unit of 25-30 with the Banner of Blood upgrade.
It costs 3CP to upgrade the icon and stick it into the warp, but it will kill ANYTHING it touches, and putting in deep strike instead of slogging across the field mitigates casualties. You want 20+ for the additional weapon skill, and you want 25+ so that you can lose a few bodies in OW and still get that bonus.
There's also no reason to take a Patrol, that I can see. Put Karanak into the battalion, drop Belakor for another Prince (or even a Skullmaster), and stack those extra BLs into your new Letter Bomb.
Also, 5 khorne dogs are going to be very disappointing.
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
Which of the Bloodthirsters is best to run? The Rage version does the most damage and gets most out of the fighting twice strategem but has little to no staying power once he is damaged.
Fury version is the most all round and the wrath version has the best ranged damage.
I want to run one in my thousand sons daemon list but am looking for a decision on which one is generally favored.
Barnie25 wrote: Which of the Bloodthirsters is best to run? The Rage version does the most damage and gets most out of the fighting twice strategem but has little to no staying power once he is damaged.
Fury version is the most all round and the wrath version has the best ranged damage.
I want to run one in my thousand sons daemon list but am looking for a decision on which one is generally favored.
You don't take Bloodthirsters for their ranged ability. Skull Cannons, Horrors, Obliterators...there are lots of other, MUCH better ranged options to choose from.
If you take a pure Khorne detachment (for the reroll charge) and put him in DS, Rage will most likely get to his target (you can even Warp Surge if you're leery of the overwatch). Just be sure you have a way to clear the chaff before dropping him in!
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
Barnie25 wrote: Which of the Bloodthirsters is best to run? The Rage version does the most damage and gets most out of the fighting twice strategem but has little to no staying power once he is damaged.
Fury version is the most all round and the wrath version has the best ranged damage.
I want to run one in my thousand sons daemon list but am looking for a decision on which one is generally favored.
You don't take Bloodthirsters for their ranged ability. Skull Cannons, Horrors, Obliterators...there are lots of other, MUCH better ranged options to choose from.
If you take a pure Khorne detachment (for the reroll charge) and put him in DS, Rage will most likely get to his target (you can even Warp Surge if you're leery of the overwatch). Just be sure you have a way to clear the chaff before dropping him in!
The single ranged model in my army will probably be a Renegade Knight with 2 avenger gatling cannons. I am doubting between the fury and the rage version, turn one the Tzaangor bomb will drop and disrupt the backline so that on turn 2 hopefully somewhere a better charge is possible. I believe that when using the free reroll the Thousand sons spell Gaze of Fate provides, on top of the command reroll, the odds of making the 9 inch charge are better when rerolling either dice independent of each other as supposed to rerolling both dice at the same time.
260 points ofcourse is a lot for a lightning rod, but then again, all attention that the bloodthirster attracts means that my knight will live longer. The fury version seems rather bad for clearing chaff, so maybe a more balls to the wall version is best in the end.
Is it hard to magnetize the model to be able to make both?
Elric Greywolf wrote: One of the most powerful ways to run Bloodletters is the Letter Bomb, a unit of 25-30 with the Banner of Blood upgrade.
It costs 3CP to upgrade the icon and stick it into the warp, but it will kill ANYTHING it touches, and putting in deep strike instead of slogging across the field mitigates casualties. You want 20+ for the additional weapon skill, and you want 25+ so that you can lose a few bodies in OW and still get that bonus.
There's also no reason to take a Patrol, that I can see. Put Karanak into the battalion, drop Belakor for another Prince (or even a Skullmaster), and stack those extra BLs into your new Letter Bomb.
Also, 5 khorne dogs are going to be very disappointing.
Ok, thanks. Here is my new list. Do you think putting the 10 BL in the Spearhead is a good idea? I was thinking of using them as a shield, but I'm not sure how effective it might be and they might be better used elsewhere.
Warlord Battalion:
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] [Warlord] (Trait: Oblivious to Pain) (Artefact – Armour of Scorn)
Herald (Bloodmaster) [HQ]
1 x 30 Bloodletters (with Banner of Blood)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
First Daemon Prince Battalion:
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons [HQ]
Karanak [HQ]
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 12 Bloodletters
Skulltaker Battalion:
Skulltaker [HQ]
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ]
1 x 13 Bloodletters (with Daemonic instrument)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alright, here is yet another updated list. I didn't put in the three battle forged cp's before and didn't know that I could only have 3 detachments for a 2000 point game. I'm thinking of giving my Soul Grinder a mark of Tzeentch or Nurgle to make it harder to kill, and I think I'll give my winged DP the Skull Reaver artefact, though I'm not yet sure.
Warlord Battalion:
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] [Warlord] (Trait: Oblivious to Pain) (Artefact – Armour of Scorn)
Herald (Bloodmaster) [HQ]
Soul Grinder [Heavy Support]
1 x 30 Bloodletters (with Banner of Blood)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
First Daemon Prince Battalion:
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons [HQ]
Karanak [HQ]
Blood Throne [HQ]
Skull Cannon [Heavy Support]
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 12 Bloodletters
Skulltaker Battalion:
Skulltaker [HQ]
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ]
Skull Cannon [Heavy Support]
1 x 23 Bloodletters (with Daemonic instrument)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
Total points: 1997
Command points: 18
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/05 22:51:06
Elric Greywolf wrote: One of the most powerful ways to run Bloodletters is the Letter Bomb, a unit of 25-30 with the Banner of Blood upgrade.
It costs 3CP to upgrade the icon and stick it into the warp, but it will kill ANYTHING it touches, and putting in deep strike instead of slogging across the field mitigates casualties. You want 20+ for the additional weapon skill, and you want 25+ so that you can lose a few bodies in OW and still get that bonus.
There's also no reason to take a Patrol, that I can see. Put Karanak into the battalion, drop Belakor for another Prince (or even a Skullmaster), and stack those extra BLs into your new Letter Bomb.
Also, 5 khorne dogs are going to be very disappointing.
Ok, thanks. Here is my new list. Do you think putting the 10 BL in the Spearhead is a good idea? I was thinking of using them as a shield, but I'm not sure how effective it might be and they might be better used elsewhere.
Warlord Battalion:
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] [Warlord] (Trait: Oblivious to Pain) (Artefact – Armour of Scorn)
Herald (Bloodmaster) [HQ]
1 x 30 Bloodletters (with Banner of Blood)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
First Daemon Prince Battalion:
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons [HQ]
Karanak [HQ]
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 12 Bloodletters
Skulltaker Battalion:
Skulltaker [HQ]
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ]
1 x 13 Bloodletters (with Daemonic instrument)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alright, here is yet another updated list. I didn't put in the three battle forged cp's before and didn't know that I could only have 3 detachments for a 2000 point game. I'm thinking of giving my Soul Grinder a mark of Tzeentch or Nurgle to make it harder to kill, and I think I'll give my winged DP the Skull Reaver artefact, though I'm not yet sure.
Warlord Battalion:
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] [Warlord] (Trait: Oblivious to Pain) (Artefact – Armour of Scorn)
Herald (Bloodmaster) [HQ]
Soul Grinder [Heavy Support]
1 x 30 Bloodletters (with Banner of Blood)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
First Daemon Prince Battalion:
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons [HQ]
Karanak [HQ]
Blood Throne [HQ]
Skull Cannon [Heavy Support]
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 12 Bloodletters
Skulltaker Battalion:
Skulltaker [HQ]
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ]
Skull Cannon [Heavy Support]
1 x 23 Bloodletters (with Daemonic instrument)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
Total points: 1997
Command points: 18
You might want to take this to Army Lists. There are some good people over there, and spamming lists isn't exactly the point of the tactical thread....
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
Elric Greywolf wrote: One of the most powerful ways to run Bloodletters is the Letter Bomb, a unit of 25-30 with the Banner of Blood upgrade.
It costs 3CP to upgrade the icon and stick it into the warp, but it will kill ANYTHING it touches, and putting in deep strike instead of slogging across the field mitigates casualties. You want 20+ for the additional weapon skill, and you want 25+ so that you can lose a few bodies in OW and still get that bonus.
There's also no reason to take a Patrol, that I can see. Put Karanak into the battalion, drop Belakor for another Prince (or even a Skullmaster), and stack those extra BLs into your new Letter Bomb.
Also, 5 khorne dogs are going to be very disappointing.
Ok, thanks. Here is my new list. Do you think putting the 10 BL in the Spearhead is a good idea? I was thinking of using them as a shield, but I'm not sure how effective it might be and they might be better used elsewhere.
Warlord Battalion:
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] [Warlord] (Trait: Oblivious to Pain) (Artefact – Armour of Scorn)
Herald (Bloodmaster) [HQ]
1 x 30 Bloodletters (with Banner of Blood)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
First Daemon Prince Battalion:
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons [HQ]
Karanak [HQ]
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 12 Bloodletters
Skulltaker Battalion:
Skulltaker [HQ]
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ]
1 x 13 Bloodletters (with Daemonic instrument)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alright, here is yet another updated list. I didn't put in the three battle forged cp's before and didn't know that I could only have 3 detachments for a 2000 point game. I'm thinking of giving my Soul Grinder a mark of Tzeentch or Nurgle to make it harder to kill, and I think I'll give my winged DP the Skull Reaver artefact, though I'm not yet sure.
Warlord Battalion:
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] [Warlord] (Trait: Oblivious to Pain) (Artefact – Armour of Scorn)
Herald (Bloodmaster) [HQ]
Soul Grinder [Heavy Support]
1 x 30 Bloodletters (with Banner of Blood)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
First Daemon Prince Battalion:
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons [HQ]
Karanak [HQ]
Blood Throne [HQ]
Skull Cannon [Heavy Support]
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 12 Bloodletters
Skulltaker Battalion:
Skulltaker [HQ]
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ]
Skull Cannon [Heavy Support]
1 x 23 Bloodletters (with Daemonic instrument)
1 x 10 Bloodletters
1 x 10 Bloodletters
Total points: 1997
Command points: 18
You might want to take this to Army Lists. There are some good people over there, and spamming lists isn't exactly the point of the tactical thread....
Oh ok, sorry about that. I've never to that section before so I didn't know that was the place to discuss lists.
I was wondering if anyone could help me in preparing a 1250 pt Tournament list. My current idea is here, but I am willing to change. I'd be doing ITC simplified missions. I have a worry that my list is too thin, especially with Mortarion. Plus I know mortarion really benefits from getting into a heretic astartes strat to get access to Warptime. I was wondering what I should change if I were to change this list. Should I run mortarion at all? Should I run something else instead?
Thanks for any help
LoW Mortarion
Daemons Battalion
HQ Khorne Daemon Prince w/ Wings and Skullreaver
Poxbringer
Sloppity Bilepiper
Your list is going to ride or die with Mortarion--if the enemy list can kill him in one or two turns they win, if they can't, you probably win. I'd prefer Magnus if you had him over Morty, as he's better able to support himself through his psychic abilities, though Mortarion has increased durability. Only tweak I'd really look at is dropping the Bilepiper, as he's a waste of points when he's only buffing a single unit. Another unit of Nurglings for some added scoring presence, and ability to screen your Khorne Prince would probably be much more valuable.
Sokhar wrote: Your list is going to ride or die with Mortarion--if the enemy list can kill him in one or two turns they win, if they can't, you probably win. I'd prefer Magnus if you had him over Morty, as he's better able to support himself through his psychic abilities, though Mortarion has increased durability. Only tweak I'd really look at is dropping the Bilepiper, as he's a waste of points when he's only buffing a single unit. Another unit of Nurglings for some added scoring presence, and ability to screen your Khorne Prince would probably be much more valuable.
Sweet, thanks man. I may look into getting magnus then, since the model is amazing. Def gonna swap the Nurglings in. I was considering a 20 unit of daemonettes over the sloppity and one band of nurglings, but I think the nurglings are better actually.
kill Mortarion at 1250pts isn't that easy and anyway you have bloodletters and Korne Dp so no you dont rely on Mortarion only to win, they can kill it (maybe) every game and you can still win. I just would take out sloppity for 3 extra nurglings, give instrumenst to letters.
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blackmage wrote: kill Mortarion at 1250pts isn't that easy and anyway you have bloodletters and Korne Dp so no you dont rely on Mortarion only to win, they can kill it (maybe) every game and you can still win. I just would take out sloppity for 3 extra nurglings, give instrumenst to letters.
Do you think a supreme command w/ ahriman and 2 Tzeentch DPs would be better over mortarion? Or just stick with mortarion. And yeah, def gonna swap in those extra nurglings over the piper
that supreme command is extra strong i played for long in ETC, can be a nice swap, anyway at 1250 Mortarion can be a real beast, skullreaver Dp too. If you want more solidity and be less "dice dependent" , play the supreme command. handle 3 Dp's and tons of pyschic power at 1250 can be frustrating for many armies, if used properly korne Dp can be more lethal than Mortarion
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/07 00:57:14
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Hey my dudes, I'm considering adding a small Daemon battalion to my CSM list and was hoping for some advice and rules clarifications as I'm not up to date on the FAQs.
My main Alpha Legion force focuses on a large squad of Noise Boys infiltrating, Obliterators, and a battalion of R&H militia chumps. Any advice on how to better achieve a decent bloodletter bomb, or which HQ to take would be welcome. I'm thinking of adding the following, trying to make is as cheap as possible whilst still having a large bloodletter squad. The nurglings are there to primarily qualify as a battalion for CP, to lock down my intended location for my infiltrating Noise Marines, and to screen them from CC.
My questions are,
Is the stratagem for summoning daemons for CP cost still a thing and can it be used to summon HQ? Ill have plenty of CP to spare.
Do the Loci from Skulltaker and Bloodmaster stack?
I've seen people talking about giving bloodletters a 3d6 charge, where does this come from? I can't seem to find it in the Codex or on Battlescribe.
Cheers for the help.
EDIT: Found the banner of Blood.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/07 09:40:52