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So, this sounds about like what happened during the 1st Crusade, right?

Curze was never wrong with his visions. Without incredibly bad retconning, it sounds like Dorn is dead.



Also, Prince of Crows was awesome. Sevatar is easily my favorite Black Library character now.

Yeah that sure sounds like the end of him...

Or maybe that's where the vision cuts out, and it misses the part where Dorn does this:

Which books is this from and I thought the Lion was chasing Curze through the "Sweet Rave Party @ Terra" stage of the Heresy

Agiel wrote:
Or maybe that's where the vision cuts out, and it misses the part where Dorn does this:

Oh my God lol lost it mate

And to OP, yeah Sevatar is simply the best

So a bunch of traitors killed Dorn, and left his fist behind. They left the fist of the primarch of the Imperial Fist behind?

I'm sure Cruze is right about Dorn being mobbed in a confined space, but I don't think hes dead. A bunch of the primarchs are conveniently missing so GW can bring them back, Dorn is no exception.

Yup, we really only have 3 confirmed Primarch deaths in the shape of Ferrus, Sanguinius and Horus. Of these, 2 have been cloned by Fabius Bile.

I think that after the reception of Magnus and Roboute, we will see most of the Primarchs on the tabletop over the next few years. It has been strongly implied that Mortarion is coming soon and I would not be surprised to see another loyalist Primarch announced before the end of the year.

 Karhedron wrote:
and I would not be surprised to see another loyalist Primarch announced before the end of the year.

Based on Hasting's comments Russ.

tneva82 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
and I would not be surprised to see another loyalist Primarch announced before the end of the year.

Based on Hasting's comments Russ.

With Magnus and the Wulfen already out, he would be a fluffy choice in more ways than one.

There are some that shouldn't come back, as it completely ruins their story arc. Corax, for example. Others should just stay dead, for the same reason. The Lion, the Wolf, and Vulkan, though, have their return built into their story so they're much more natural choices.

Personally I would prefer to not see any more loyalist Primarchs at all, but GW likes to make both money and lazy decisions so we'll probably see all of them.

 Karhedron wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
and I would not be surprised to see another loyalist Primarch announced before the end of the year.

Based on Hasting's comments Russ.

With Magnus and the Wulfen already out, he would be a fluffy choice in more ways than one.

I'd actually much rather the Lion to come back. He and Papa Smurf could potentially have a massive civil war between them over the fate of the Imperium. No other primarch could ever contest papa smurf, except the Lion. Maybe the Lion will come back and move the Rock into the North (messed up) galaxy and succeed. That would be soooo cool.

Comic book rules: nobody is dead unless you see the body, and even then it's usually only a matter of time.

 Novelist47 wrote:
So a bunch of traitors killed Dorn, and left his fist behind. They left the fist of the primarch of the Imperial Fist behind?

I'm sure Cruze is right about Dorn being mobbed in a confined space, but I don't think hes dead. A bunch of the primarchs are conveniently missing so GW can bring them back, Dorn is no exception.

I am sure they left more behind, but his hands were all that was later found.

I don't think Dorn is still alive. Dorn being killed in an ambush by traitor Marines is long established fluff, and GW already has plenty of living loyalist Primarchs to bring back.
Also, Dorn's dead would even out the numbers of loyalist and traitor Primarchs again:

Dead traitors:
Horus
Kurze
Alpharius

Dead loyalists:
Manus
Sanguinius
Dorn

Heroes never die?

Anyway i thought there was something in the Necron book that implies he might be in stasis with Trazyan.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

I don't think Dorn is still alive. Dorn being killed in an ambush by traitor Marines is long established fluff, and GW already has plenty of living loyalist Primarchs to bring back.
Also, Dorn's dead would even out the numbers of loyalist and traitor Primarchs again:

Dunno bringing back primarchs already opened the flood gates. if they dont some how bring everyone back besides maybe Horus whom is could be cloned? then its going to upset a lot of people. and GW cant have that.

tneva82 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
and I would not be surprised to see another loyalist Primarch announced before the end of the year.

Based on Hasting's comments Russ.

What did he say?

 Desubot wrote:
Heroes never die?

Anyway i thought there was something in the Necron book that implies he might be in stasis with Trazyan.

afaik it just mentions a guy in baroque power armour. Nothing implies it is Dorn.

 Desubot wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

I don't think Dorn is still alive. Dorn being killed in an ambush by traitor Marines is long established fluff, and GW already has plenty of living loyalist Primarchs to bring back.
Also, Dorn's dead would even out the numbers of loyalist and traitor Primarchs again:

Dunno bringing back primarchs already opened the flood gates. if they dont some how bring everyone back besides maybe Horus whom is could be cloned? then its going to upset a lot of people. and GW cant have that.

That is true, but they are also going to upset a lot of people if they do bring back the supposedly dead Primarchs. Hell, they are even already upsetting loads of people by just bringing Primarchs back in the first place.
GW is going to upset people no matter what they do, so I don't think that is a convincing argument for them.

 SpinCycleDreadnought wrote:
Which books is this from and I thought the Lion was chasing Curze through the "Sweet Rave Party @ Terra" stage of the Heresy

Its in Shadows of Treachery, where Curze sees 4 of his brothers and the Emperor when they come to Nostramo to find him. Its the story after Prince of Crows, that talks about Curze growing up on Nostramo.

 Novelist47 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
and I would not be surprised to see another loyalist Primarch announced before the end of the year.

Based on Hasting's comments Russ.

With Magnus and the Wulfen already out, he would be a fluffy choice in more ways than one.

I'd actually much rather the Lion to come back. He and Papa Smurf could potentially have a massive civil war between them over the fate of the Imperium. No other primarch could ever contest papa smurf, except the Lion. Maybe the Lion will come back and move the Rock into the North (messed up) galaxy and succeed. That would be soooo cool.

you think The Lion could really contest Gulliman? The Lion is simply A Primarch, Gulliman however is more, the Lion just wouldn't be able to rally support outside of the dark angels and their sucessors.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Novelist47 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
and I would not be surprised to see another loyalist Primarch announced before the end of the year.

Based on Hasting's comments Russ.

With Magnus and the Wulfen already out, he would be a fluffy choice in more ways than one.

I'd actually much rather the Lion to come back. He and Papa Smurf could potentially have a massive civil war between them over the fate of the Imperium. No other primarch could ever contest papa smurf, except the Lion. Maybe the Lion will come back and move the Rock into the North (messed up) galaxy and succeed. That would be soooo cool.

you think The Lion could really contest Gulliman? The Lion is simply A Primarch, Gulliman however is more, the Lion just wouldn't be able to rally support outside of the dark angels and their sucessors.

If anyone is going to have beef it will be the Lion and the Wolf. Maybe we'll see both of them return; por que no los dos?

BrianDavion wrote:

you think The Lion could really contest Gulliman? The Lion is simply A Primarch, Gulliman however is more, the Lion just wouldn't be able to rally support outside of the dark angels and their sucessors.

In practical terms, I am not sure. In terms of ego, he is definitely arrogant enough to try to pull it off. He was one of the most tactically acute Primarchs (only Horus could beat his tally of victories) and he knew it. The problem is that he failed to recognize his weaknesses. He was a poor judge of character, he lacked charisma and empathy and he kept secrets when openness would have inspired trust.

If he did return, he might be pretty annoyed to see Guilliman lording it as Regent. Maybe appointing him Warmaster and sending him off to sort out the Dark Imperium would satisfy him.

 Karhedron wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

you think The Lion could really contest Gulliman? The Lion is simply A Primarch, Gulliman however is more, the Lion just wouldn't be able to rally support outside of the dark angels and their sucessors.

In practical terms, I am not sure. In terms of ego, he is definitely arrogant enough to try to pull it off. He was one of the most tactically acute Primarchs (only Horus could beat his tally of victories) and he knew it. The problem is that he failed to recognize his weaknesses. He was a poor judge of character, he lacked charisma and empathy and he kept secrets when openness would have inspired trust.

If he did return, he might be pretty annoyed to see Guilliman lording it as Regent. Maybe appointing him Warmaster and sending him off to sort out the Dark Imperium would satisfy him.

Or further create a rift between the two if the Lion were to develop any real aspirations beyond more combat?

 Formerly Wu wrote:
Comic book rules: nobody is dead unless you see the body, and even then it's usually only a matter of time.

Don't forget the multiple replacement versions until the "real one" comes back. The most recent example that comes to mind is Wolverine with IIRC three replacements currently running about. Although considering all the fuss over Roboute Guilliman returning, having a dead Primarch come back via younger gender swapped clone/old man future self/son from an alternate reality would probably not be well received

Lion , Wolf most likely.

One is perfectly fitting with the Magnus storyline.

One fits as the counter to the other, and are Brothers, sometimes rivals at times. , but both will stand together when needed.

Vulkan. His perceptual nature is normal.
J
His return makes sense. He returned at time of beast.
Maybe return seeing gulliman may be hope.

Dorn much as like. Is unlikely and not fits so nicely ad others.
Kharn and Corax have no real established return triggers.

I think hes dead. As for whos coming back, id say lion, the wolf, and possibly Vulkan. Traitors we can have angron, fulgrim, and morty. All 4 gods represented

I think we need Daemon-Primarch Lorgar to square off against the Reborn Guilliman.

 Aetare wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Novelist47 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
and I would not be surprised to see another loyalist Primarch announced before the end of the year.

Based on Hasting's comments Russ.

With Magnus and the Wulfen already out, he would be a fluffy choice in more ways than one.

I'd actually much rather the Lion to come back. He and Papa Smurf could potentially have a massive civil war between them over the fate of the Imperium. No other primarch could ever contest papa smurf, except the Lion. Maybe the Lion will come back and move the Rock into the North (messed up) galaxy and succeed. That would be soooo cool.

you think The Lion could really contest Gulliman? The Lion is simply A Primarch, Gulliman however is more, the Lion just wouldn't be able to rally support outside of the dark angels and their sucessors.

If anyone is going to have beef it will be the Lion and the Wolf. Maybe we'll see both of them return; por que no los dos?

Them and Dorn/Sigismund never were fond of Guilliman's post-Heresy prominence and his Codex. Now that he's returned and seemingly abandoned his own edict, not to mention upended all sorts of status quos and turned the IoM on its head, it's very conceivable that the Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Imperial Fists/Black Templars will reform their old Legions and rebel against Guilliman's Kingdom of Ultramar 2.0

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
I think we need Daemon-Primarch Lorgar to square off against the Reborn Guilliman.

Lorgar gloating over the Imperial creed and the Ecclesiarchy would great. Especially if he gets to do it to Robute

Anfauglir wrote:
Them and Dorn/Sigismund never were fond of Guilliman's post-Heresy prominence and his Codex. Now that he's returned and seemingly abandoned his own edict, not to mention upended all sorts of status quos and turned the IoM on its head, it's very conceivable that the Dark Angels, Space Wolves and Imperial Fists/Black Templars will reform their old Legions and rebel against Guilliman's Kingdom of Ultramar 2.0

Dorn first an foremost is a loyal son though, even if the Emperor is a whacked out psychic mess. He wouldn't turn against Guilliman if it risked the Empire too much, plus he'd likely agree that the changes Guilliman is making are necessary to preserve the Imperium envisioned by their father.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
I think we need Daemon-Primarch Lorgar to square off against the Reborn Guilliman.

Lorgar gloating over the Imperial creed and the Ecclesiarchy would great. Especially if he gets to do it to Robute

Indeed.

 TheLumberJack wrote:
I think hes dead. As for whos coming back, id say lion, the wolf, and possibly Vulkan. Traitors we can have angron, fulgrim, and morty. All 4 gods represented

That fits rather nicely.

One you have chaos. The other you have those who Gullman called the dauntless few he could take on anything with.
The lions secret legion.
The wolf as space wolves need him back after all they suffered plus Magnus....he gotta beaf to settle.
Vulkan as has the prophecy.

Angron has prior form for return.
So does morty, he also has grey knight grudge... So does angron lol.
Fulgrim fits with guliman. He was one who put him in stasis. Round two guys.

Plus current primarch kill/maim leader.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
I think we need Daemon-Primarch Lorgar to square off against the Reborn Guilliman.

Lorgar gloating over the Imperial creed and the Ecclesiarchy would great. Especially if he gets to do it to Robute

Dark Imperium does have Gulliman noting Lorgar no doubt is highly amused by the state of the IoM