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Hey All

So with the harlequins rules leaked, and people have had chance to read through, What are everyone's thoughts so far?

Personally going pure Harlequins

Me personally I think they look really good, fast, basically a 4+ army wide invulnerable save, mirage launchers are nice and a host of decent units from what I can tell without playing 8th.

But let me know your thoughts .

I have wanted to play pure Harlequins since 4th edition. Not only that, but I have wanted to do them purely on foot.

I'm not sure how viable they can be without vehicles, but being as fast as they are and able to charge (let's not forget the solitaire as well!), they may be viable purely on foot if mixed with a few other asuryani elder. I'm thinking wraithlords, wraithguard, and maybe some dark reapers to cover their advance. I may try something along these lines as I have dreamt of a wraith/harlequin army for 12+ years.

The guys at front line gaming who did a lot of the play testing think they might be the strongest army there is. They also said they are best as a mechanized army.

That being said the only thing that keeps me from playing them is they don't really have a ton of units so i feel like id just be playing the same list over and over again. But then again you can always mix in DE and or regular Eldar, so it's probably not too bad.

New harlequins re STRONG. I ran undefeated of 11 months when they dropped, gonna be a rough go for my friends until the corsairs are updated

The new harlie bikes are so cool. Lots of room for converting. The harlequins have three or maybe four distinct incarnations depending on how you look at it. Lots of models to mix and match. I will assemble my collection into harlies supported by craftworlders and rangers both. Two troupes a few DJs a shadowseer some bikers and a voidweaver. Guardian bikes falcon storm guards vauls batteries reapers rangers autarch on bike warlock on bike and a unit of fire dragons maybe some spiders or banshees if points allow cuz they are painted...

I don't have access to the books yet, but what is stopping someone putting a boat-load of Death Jesters in the back of a transport?

They're excellent in this edition.The standard troupe compares very well with other assault units. I'm convinced that the Player armed with an embrace is a steal for 21 ppm: with 4 strength 4 AP -3 attacks plus a pistol shot they're better offensively than an Autarch, and with Rising Crescendo & 8" movement they're as nearly as quick as Jump Infantry. Compare them to Incubi, its quite sad really.

Skyweavers are killer too, with a huge 22" move they're pretty much guaranteed first turn charges.

I think they look too hard to paint.

dosmill wrote:
I have wanted to play pure Harlequins since 4th edition. Not only that, but I have wanted to do them purely on foot.

I'm not sure how viable they can be without vehicles, but being as fast as they are and able to charge (let's not forget the solitaire as well!), they may be viable purely on foot if mixed with a few other asuryani elder. I'm thinking wraithlords, wraithguard, and maybe some dark reapers to cover their advance. I may try something along these lines as I have dreamt of a wraith/harlequin army for 12+ years.

You could easily add a pair of harlequin painted wraithlords and reapers as part of the heavy support themed detachment. Just need an HQ. Would look great.

dosmill wrote:
I have wanted to play pure Harlequins since 4th edition... I may try something along these lines as I have dreamt of a wraith/harlequin army for 12+ years.

Me too! However I'm going to add a group of craftworld too for fire support - Maugan Ra plus two squads of reapers (tempest launchers on the exarch) plus two wraithlords. Then several cars full of murder clowns and some skyweavers. Fast and furious death coming to a war zone near you soon!

Ok, how does this look?

BATTALION (+3 CP, 831 points)

Troupe Master - power sword
Shadowseer
Shadowseer
Solitaire
6 Players - 3 kisses, 1 fusion pistol
6 Players - 1 kiss, 2 caresses, 1 fusion pistol
6 Players - 1 kiss, 2 caresses, 1 fusion pistol

VANGUARD (+1 CP, 637 points)

Warlock - witchblade
5 Wraithguard
5 Wraithguard
5 Wraithguard

SPEARHEAD (+1 CP, 501 points)

Warlock - witchblade
Wraithlord - flamer, starcannon
Wraithlord - flamer, starcannon
5 Dark Reapers - exarch


= 1969 points, 8 command points

The harlequin troupe loadouts are non-alterable as that is how they are modelled - these are the old pewter harlequins!

 Skinnereal wrote:
I don't have access to the books yet, but what is stopping someone putting a boat-load of Death Jesters in the back of a transport?

Rolling a 1 to remove a model when the transport explodes. Other than that nothing really.

Harlies look cool, and seem to be the super glass cannons they are meant to be

We look awesome.

4++ and the unprecedented amount of list-building freedom alone make this edition worth the price of admission, but we're also super fast, dead killy and we can stroll through people's screening units like they aren't even there.

10/10 would change edition again.

I certainly want to try an all harlequin Force, especially with the the new bikes. I'm glad we finally have an HQ choice so the harlequins can be a proper independent force.

Until I get enough models built and painted, I'll try them out as a force mixed with Eldar, especially dark reapers. They seem very similar to death jesters anyway; it seems fluffy that they'd have dark reapers giving support.

What other Eldar unit do you think would work thematically with harlequins?

Definitely Rangers. Outcasts travelling with a Harlequin masque is a very common 'expedition'.

 Robin5t wrote:
Definitely Rangers. Outcasts travelling with a Harlequin masque is a very common 'expedition'.

Great idea. That makes perfect sense.

Man, 8th edition has me really excited about 40K!

I've played my Harlequins a bit in 8th edition, and overall they seem a lot better than they used to.

So far, I've found that Harlequins on foot are worse than they used to. A better invul and the shadowseer's buff suggest that they're almost twice as resilient against small arm fire, but Veil of Tears is gone, and non-scatter DS puts so many units in full rapid fire range that they get shot off the board very quickly. Also, Shadowseers are a bit underwhelming apart from their aura. Only 3 attacks with a mediocre weapon, and psychic powers are way worse than they used to. The Path of Twilight (not sure about the name, the one that makes you move again) is nice, especially for bikes, but powers are so easy to deny that you can't really rely on them.

Starweavers full of players with fusion pistols are insanely brutal though. They can make any vehicle/MC vanish if they can drive within 3" of it (and a 16" move helps a lot to achieve that).
The melee weapons are also much better now. All the attacks are S4/S5 (often rerolling because of a nearby troupe master) with an AP. It's a lot more reliable than what we had in 7th, where many times the non-special attacks felt like they were useless, and we were just fishing for 6s on the caresses, and decent hits on the kisses.

The Solitaire is quite fun too. Blitz is now added to your movement, so there's no risks anymore. He's pretty good against light vehicles/MCs (T7 or lower), because with 8-10 attacks, even wounding on 5s with the kiss will put a dent in most things. He would also benefit a lot from a troupe master's buff, but so far I always used him to go after backfield targets, far from the rest of my masque.

Skyweavers took a big hit I think. They used to have quite a bite when charging MEQ/TEQ with their glaives. Now it's only S4 AP-2, with 3 attacks a piece, for more points than in 7th. A player with an embrace has more attacks, with better AP, for less than half the price. I just can't find a good use for them.

Yeah, it's a shame the Solitaire can't use the aura buffs, even if it makes sense lore-wise. Imagine what a monster he would be if he was within the bubble of both a Troupe Master and Shadowseer and had both of their buffs.

Interesting that my fears about Skyweavers are starting to look valid - they don't really offer much that you wouldn't get from spending the points on more players or Voidweavers.

On that note, what do you think of Voidweavers? They seem like really useful little gunboats, now, but I'm curious how they play as I haven't had the chance to get any games in, yet.

Voidweavers took a buff, for sure, but so far I didn't really find how to use them properly.
Having no way to mitigate the -1 to hit from the heavy weapon feels very wrong for harlequins. I think they should have at least given the Haywire cannon the assault rule when taken on a Voidweaver (just like the Dark Lance on DE vehicles), to make it a bit more competitive. At the moment, the Prismatic cannon seems like an auto-take.
With the short weapon range, I had to move almost every time. So I actually ended up moving very aggressively (because one you have to move 6", why not go the full 16"), and used them to soak up overwatch in addition to providing fire.

Against medium vehicles, I never knew which fire mode to use. The Lance is potentially very good, and could one-shot some vehicles (I actually got a Skyweaver one-shotted by a DE's dark lance once), but one shot at BS4+ if moving, often wounding on 3+, will completely miss most of the time. The D3 shots at D3 damages each feel a bit safer, but they lack the punch to really kill stuff.

So it's not the tax it used to, but I can't seem to see how to make it shine.

dosmill wrote:
Ok, how does this look?

BATTALION (+3 CP, 831 points)

Troupe Master - power sword
Shadowseer
Shadowseer
Solitaire
6 Players - 3 kisses, 1 fusion pistol
6 Players - 1 kiss, 2 caresses, 1 fusion pistol
6 Players - 1 kiss, 2 caresses, 1 fusion pistol

VANGUARD (+1 CP, 637 points)

Warlock - witchblade
5 Wraithguard
5 Wraithguard
5 Wraithguard

SPEARHEAD (+1 CP, 501 points)

Warlock - witchblade
Wraithlord - flamer, starcannon
Wraithlord - flamer, starcannon
5 Dark Reapers - exarch


= 1969 points, 8 command points

The harlequin troupe loadouts are non-alterable as that is how they are modelled - these are the old pewter harlequins!

Looks deadly. Deadly fun to play against!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

fresus wrote:
I've played my Harlequins a bit in 8th edition, and overall they seem a lot better than they used to.

So far, I've found that Harlequins on foot are worse than they used to. A better invul and the shadowseer's buff suggest that they're almost twice as resilient against small arm fire, but Veil of Tears is gone, and non-scatter DS puts so many units in full rapid fire range that they get shot off the board very quickly. Also, Shadowseers are a bit underwhelming apart from their aura. Only 3 attacks with a mediocre weapon, and psychic powers are way worse than they used to. The Path of Twilight (not sure about the name, the one that makes you move again) is nice, especially for bikes, but powers are so easy to deny that you can't really rely on them.

Starweavers full of players with fusion pistols are insanely brutal though. They can make any vehicle/MC vanish if they can drive within 3" of it (and a 16" move helps a lot to achieve that).
The melee weapons are also much better now. All the attacks are S4/S5 (often rerolling because of a nearby troupe master) with an AP. It's a lot more reliable than what we had in 7th, where many times the non-special attacks felt like they were useless, and we were just fishing for 6s on the caresses, and decent hits on the kisses.

The Solitaire is quite fun too. Blitz is now added to your movement, so there's no risks anymore. He's pretty good against light vehicles/MCs (T7 or lower), because with 8-10 attacks, even wounding on 5s with the kiss will put a dent in most things. He would also benefit a lot from a troupe master's buff, but so far I always used him to go after backfield targets, far from the rest of my masque.

Skyweavers took a big hit I think. They used to have quite a bite when charging MEQ/TEQ with their glaives. Now it's only S4 AP-2, with 3 attacks a piece, for more points than in 7th. A player with an embrace has more attacks, with better AP, for less than half the price. I just can't find a good use for them.

The glaives look cool. That is the best thing about them.

I think skyweavers are fine, and with shuricannon and glaive they are 4pts cheaper per model than before. They still hit OK in assault, just not as good as before. However, being that fast with an assault weapon, plus crescendo, plus -1 to hit them and 4+ invuln, they make great flankers who can take out enemy supporting units.
Granted, talking 5 harlies with embrace in a starweaver is only 204 pts compared to 168pts for 3 skyweavers seems good for the troop choice, but I like my bikes.

 3orangewhips wrote:
I think they look too hard to paint.

not at all. Their units are very blank slates, making them great for freehanding if you want to, but easy to go basic and look good as well. Theyre way easier to get to TT standard than GSC, Admech, other more intricate recent factions.

I think this could be a pretty strong/fun build.

It's not varied, but would be fast as heck to play..

2 detachments...battalion and vanguard for 7 command points


troupe master, caress, fusion 77
troupe master, caress, fusion 77

5 x 5 harlequins, embraces 525
10 x fusion pistols (place x5 on 2 troupes above) 90
5 Starweavers 495

3 Voidweavers, prismatic 324

Shadowseer, neuro 144
Solitaire 117
jester 75
jester 75

1999pts

I know the neuro is crap, but there was 11pts leftover. You could swap out 3 embraces with caresses if you wanted to.

either way, the idea of 5 packed starweavers backed by 3 voidweavers looks fun as heck.

Thinking about things some more, I feel like screening units are going to be a fairly big thing this edition and our ability to almost ignore them entirely is going to be a neat little advantage for us.

 Robin5t wrote:
Thinking about things some more, I feel like screening units are going to be a fairly big thing this edition and our ability to almost ignore them entirely is going to be a neat little advantage for us.

It all depends on footprint.
A Skyweaver unit of 3 or 4 models might have the movement value to fly over a first line of infantry, but in many cases it will be very difficult to fit models with such big bases without getting an inch away from the enemy (at least once people are accustomed to it).
A solitaire might be able to do it much more reliably though.

fresus wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
Thinking about things some more, I feel like screening units are going to be a fairly big thing this edition and our ability to almost ignore them entirely is going to be a neat little advantage for us.

It all depends on footprint.
A Skyweaver unit of 3 or 4 models might have the movement value to fly over a first line of infantry, but in many cases it will be very difficult to fit models with such big bases without getting an inch away from the enemy (at least once people are accustomed to it).
A solitaire might be able to do it much more reliably though.

All the more reason to play lower point games.

Been trying to make this work with a knight

2k Battalion Detachment (+3CP)

Hq
Troupe Master - Fusion Pistol, Caress - 77
Troupe Master - Fusion Pistol, Caress - 77
ShadowSeer - 134

Elite
Solitaire - 117

Troops
5 X Troupe - Fusion Pistol, Embraces - 150
5 X Troupe - Fusion Pistol, Embraces - 150
5 X Troupe - Fusion Pistol, Embraces - 150
5 X Troupe - Fusion Pistol, Embraces - 150
4 X Starweaver - 396


Super Heavy Detachment
Wraithknight - Glaive/Shattershield, 2 X Shuricannon - 456

Total 1857.6 CP

Hq's and Solitaire are in the transports and knight just pushes up

When trying to fill out the remaining 143 pts, any combination of things I try I tend to get 1 pt over 2k so not really sure what to fill the last points with. One option is another Shadowseer (third detatchment as a patrol to get him, shift one troop over). Another option is an Autarch on a bike with a lance, keeps up with the weavers. Could spend more points on the knight too to make it more Dakka heavy, but seems too expensive for that.

Thank you for your advice!

hmmm, adding a harlequin themed knight ....I like that

however, you have underpointed your wraithknight...

Knight 402
2 shuricannons 24
Titanic ghostglaive 65
Scattershield 20

511pts

PUFNSTUF wrote:
Been trying to make this work with a knight

2k Battalion Detachment (+3CP)

Hq
Troupe Master - Fusion Pistol, Caress - 77
Troupe Master - Fusion Pistol, Caress - 77
ShadowSeer - 134

Elite
Solitaire - 117

Troops
5 X Troupe - Fusion Pistol, Embraces - 150
5 X Troupe - Fusion Pistol, Embraces - 150
5 X Troupe - Fusion Pistol, Embraces - 150
5 X Troupe - Fusion Pistol, Embraces - 150
4 X Starweaver - 396


Super Heavy Detachment
Wraithknight - Glaive/Shattershield, 2 X Shuricannon - 456

Total 1857.6 CP

Hq's and Solitaire are in the transports and knight just pushes up

When trying to fill out the remaining 143 pts, any combination of things I try I tend to get 1 pt over 2k so not really sure what to fill the last points with. One option is another Shadowseer (third detatchment as a patrol to get him, shift one troop over). Another option is an Autarch on a bike with a lance, keeps up with the weavers. Could spend more points on the knight too to make it more Dakka heavy, but seems too expensive for that.

Thank you for your advice!

You could bring a Voidweaver (+108), upgrade two of your troupes to the Caress (+30), and give one of your Troupe Masters a Kiss (+5) for 143 points exactly.

Edit: But I also missed the above post. Ignore this.