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Hi all,
I've been searching the interwebs for a few weeks, especially in the last few days for this.

I'm trying to get a (rough) idea of what power levels an average game equates to so I can organise pick-up games with my local friends.

This isn't so much a RAW question, but I think this might be the place for it, especially for other searching.

Does anyone have a rough idea what Power Level a game would be for:

500 points

1000 points

1500 points

2000 points

I understand this is open to a lot of interpretation, and I'm not seeking precise answers here, I appreciate that much of this will come out in the wash.

Anyone?

Thanks guys.

Generally speaking, 1 power = 20 matched play points.

So, 500 points = 25 power

1000 = 50 power

etc.

I've analyzed and compared at least the ork codex, and the average power : point ratio is almost exactly 1:20. I believe most other codexes follow that general trend.

Example: 10 necron warriors cost 6 power. In match play, Warriors are 12 PPM, or 10 for 120. 6 power = 120 points, or 1 power = 20 points.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Generally speaking, 1 power = 20 matched play points.

So, 500 points = 25 power

1000 = 50 power

etc.

I've analyzed and compared at least the ork codex, and the average power : point ratio is almost exactly 1:20. I believe most other codexes follow that general trend.

Example: 10 necron warriors cost 6 power. In match play, Warriors are 12 PPM, or 10 for 120. 6 power = 120 points, or 1 power = 20 points.

This is roughly correct. I did it for the marines and they clock in a little less then 20 points for power. It really depends on what you equip them with.

Here is the list I'll be running with my BA with my friend soon. We're running about 110 power in our games right now:

Name Upgrades Type Power Points Points/Power
Librarian (Jump Pack) Boltgun, Force Axe HQ 7 132 18.85714286
Captain (Jump Pack) Master-Crafted Boltgun, Relic Blade HQ 6 117 19.5
Sanguinary Priest (Jump Pack) Bolt Pistol, Chainsword HQ 5 86 17.2
Sanguinary Guard Ancient Angelus Boltgun, Power Fist, Death Mask Elite 6 115 19.16666667
10 Sanguinary Guard 10 Angelus Boltguns, 4 Encarmine Axes, 1 Power Fist, 5 Encarmine Swords, 10 Death Masks Elite 22 479 21.77272727
10 Sternguard Veteran Squad 10 Combi-Plasma, Sergeant Power Fist Elite 14 330 23.57142857
Rhino Storm Bolter Transport 4 72 18
5 Tactical Squad Missile Launcher, Sergeant Power Fist Troops 5 110 22
5 Tactical Squad Missile Launcher, Sergeant Power Fist Troops 5 110 22
10 Assault Squad (Jump Packs) Sergeant Power Fist, Combat Shield Fast Attack 11 184 16.72727273
3 Land Speeders 3 Assault Cannons, 3 Heavy Flamers Fast Attack 18 354 19.66666667
Whirlwind Whirlwind Vengeance Launcher Heavy Support 6 124 20.66666667
Total 109 2213 20.30275229

Ug, hate the formatting. Hope it looks better in practice. The main thing is that if your Points/Power is >20, you're getting more value then points, while if it's <20, you're getting less. You can see that they're all close to 20, but the ones which I have taken a lot of upgrades are getting more value (sternguard and sanguinary guard). The ones I haven't taken many upgrades like the sanguinary priest and assault marines are undervalued. Also, I'm a 30k player using my BA legion with 8th edition rules, hence the sternguard are really my combi-plasma seekers.

Edit, can't figure out how to edit that to look better. Anyway, the main thing is that it looks like GW's statement where they did the power based off the median points of a unit with some upgrades looks correct. If you take no or few upgrades you don't come out as well as points, while if you take a ton of upgrades you do better. My group doesn't overly care and nobody will take max WAAC upgrades on all units so it will be fine. Some will have more (like my sternguard and sanguinary guard) and some will have less (like my assault marines and characters). We are porting in a lot of our 30k stuff and like to do wysiwyg, so power works great for us. It makes a fairly approximate even game which is all we're after.

Interesting thought.

I haven't seen the point totals for everything, but I watched an 8th edition battle report from Miniwargaming.com, and they pointed out that the power increase from 5->10->15 isn't linear with CSM. So you can take 15 power CSM squad and pay less Power Per Model.

I don't know if that is reflected in the points.

Wow this is great guys, thanks.

I'm guessing that not many units scale linear, points usually reflect something similar in my experience.

I think it varies some, my 2k Ork list is 124 Power level, so about 16 points per PL.

 Marmatag wrote:
Interesting thought.

I haven't seen the point totals for everything, but I watched an 8th edition battle report from Miniwargaming.com, and they pointed out that the power increase from 5->10->15 isn't linear with CSM. So you can take 15 power CSM squad and pay less Power Per Model.

I don't know if that is reflected in the points.

A lot of orks units do that too, and I believe the reason is to account for wargear options.

For example, ork boyz are 5 power for the first 10, 4 for any additional 10. The likely reason is because in that first 10, you're going to add in a nob with a klaw, which costs extra in matched play, so they tossed in an extra power to make it more even.

 Marmatag wrote:
Interesting thought.

I haven't seen the point totals for everything, but I watched an 8th edition battle report from Miniwargaming.com, and they pointed out that the power increase from 5->10->15 isn't linear with CSM. So you can take 15 power CSM squad and pay less Power Per Model.

I don't know if that is reflected in the points.

A lot of time this is because the first 5 models are paying for a free sarge upgrade, who can take wargear. This is not always the case. For CSM they pay 5 PL for 5 models 9 for 10, 12 for 15 and 15 for 20. The first 5 models include the champ and 1 special or heavy weapon so they have 2 models that can upgrade. At 10 models they get 1 additional model with a special or heavy (so 3 models that can upgrade), there are no additional models that can upgrade beyond that. So it appears that for this unit PL works as follows, 5 CSM are worth 3 Power. Upgradable models are worth 1 power each.

This holds true for Ork units. Take lootas 5 are 8 power, but can take 3 upgradable models at 5 models. Every additional 5 is 4 power. So it seems like 5 lootas = 4 power, +4 power for the 3 upgradable models.

Boyz are the same 5 for the first 10 models with the Nob, 4 for every additional 10.

I did a bit of messing about with this the other day and I'd agree with the assessment that it runs to about 20pts = 1 PL. obviously, if you're running really bare bones stuff you're getting way fewer points, and if you're loading up on all the upgrades you're getting more, but the average seems to skate around that level.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Interesting thought.

I haven't seen the point totals for everything, but I watched an 8th edition battle report from Miniwargaming.com, and they pointed out that the power increase from 5->10->15 isn't linear with CSM. So you can take 15 power CSM squad and pay less Power Per Model.

I don't know if that is reflected in the points.

A lot of orks units do that too, and I believe the reason is to account for wargear options.

For example, ork boyz are 5 power for the first 10, 4 for any additional 10. The likely reason is because in that first 10, you're going to add in a nob with a klaw, which costs extra in matched play, so they tossed in an extra power to make it more even.

Agreed. If you look at space marine tacticals they're 5 power for the first 5, then 4 for 5 more. The extra power has to be the sergeant.

When I first started looking at it, it was around 16-17 points per power for the marines. But when I made lists, it really evened itself out to 20 points per power fairly consistently. It really depends on how you do your guys. If you have a minimal upgrades for more dudes philosophy you won't get as much out of it as someone that loves elite guys that are loaded.

Tau Commander - 6 Power
4 Missile Pods, 2 Shields - 172 / 6 = 28.66
4 Flamers - 112 / 6 = 18.66

Tau Crisis Suits - 11 Power
9 Missile Pods - 342 / 11 = 31.09
9 Flamers - 207 / 11 = 18.81

50 Power Vanguard Detachment
1 Commander - 6 power
4x Crisis Suit Suit Team - 44 power
1540 points vs 1000 points... BALANCED!

I've just converted my 7th Ork army over to 8th points/PL, and it actually averaged out at about 16pts/PL. Think this is largely down to the units that have non-multiples-of-ten in them, e.g. a mob of 12 boyz is PL9/81pts (9pts/PL). If I had 8 more boyz in that unit, it would still be PL9, but 129pts (~14.3pts/PL). Nothing exceeds the 20pts/PL mark, and the lowest I've got in there is 10.6 (5 lootas @ PL8/17ppm), so maybe we should revise that 20pts/PL down a bit.

Obviously it's never going to be an exact conversion, due to the potential variance of points compared to PL, and this is just one example, but thought this was worth mentioning in the context of this discussion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone else done similar with a list? Would be interesting to see how other armies compare.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
UPDATE: just bumped all the units up to the max allowed for the Power Level, and it's still running to ~17.3pts/PL.

It all depends on how much you're uprgrading your units by, your basic vanilla unit will have a low point to power ratio but once you pile on upgrades that point to power level increases drastically.

My 1500pt Khorne list is PL50 but I'd say about a 3rd of the points in the list are upgrades which aren't taken into account when calculating PL.

It's hard to say, as power level correlates to the average point value. If you look at units without upgrades, it is almost 20 points per power level exactly (which is an absolutely absurd way of doing it, why wouldn't you outfit units with the most expensive gear if it is free?).

SilverAlien wrote:
It's hard to say, as power level correlates to the average point value. If you look at units without upgrades, it is almost 20 points per power level exactly (which is an absolutely absurd way of doing it, why wouldn't you outfit units with the most expensive gear if it is free?).

Depends on the role of the unit. If I’m gearing a tac squad for busting hordes, I want the humble heavy bolter, not the pricy lascannon.

I’ve built a few 1,000 point lists, mostly Ultramarines, with one Eldar list. Power Level ranged from 51-53. But I’m a WYSWYG kinda guy, and always stingy with the wargear. So I end up with more basic units, rather then fewer tricked out ones.

But the 20 points to 1 power seems a decent guideline.

Power Levels also charge you in larger chunks.

So in a standard infantry unit you may have 5 models at 4 Power, or 6 models at 8 (because you pay an additional 4 power points for the next five models).

So converting an existing army into power levels you'll probably lose out (gain a bit in wargear, lose a bit on leftover models).

Needless to say if you're constructing a new 40K army it would behoove you to simply buy them in chunks matching power level if you're going to be using that (and I suspect most people will be playing a mix).