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I didn’t say footdar wouldn’t be playable, but competitively it will struggle. There are too many good anti infantry things out there. 20 reapers would help with the anti tank but they would also die after turn 1 and then you better hope they put a dent in the big things.




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 DanielFM wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Would be super silly and broken if there were no tradeoffs. Wouldn't be any reason whatsoever to play Craftworld over Ynnari

Me, I have found a way to build my Ynnari army while sacrifying relatively few of the CWE goodies.

As I'm bent on using a Wraithknight (I know, I know), fielding it in a Superheavy Auxiliary Detachment would unlock stratagems and allow for a CW trait (Iyanden for long-lasting profile, Ulthwé for the 6+...) and having the rest as Ynnari. As the Wraithknight would get no bennefit from Ynnari, the choice is quite obvious.
I know a Supreme Command detachment would give me +1 CP, but it would force me to field three extra characters I didn't plan to use.

But that’s the point, you are trading off. You are trading off the craftworld traits for strength from death. It’s easy enough to access the eldar strategems without too much issue, but the bulk of your army will need to either choose strength from death or the traits.

 Cream Tea wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
I'm curious, do Ynnari benefit from Craftworld traits, IF every unit has the same Craftworld? For example, all units in a Ynnari Patrol have the Alaitoc craftworld (Yvraine is in another detachment).

No, the codex says Ynnari units can't benefit from craftworld traits. An Ynnari detachment is also not a Craftworlds detachment.

Indeed. Although it should be noted that CW Statagems can still apply to Ynnari units as long as the unit has all the relavant keywards of the particular stratagem used.
You can use the Webway Stratagem on Ynnari D-scythe WG, for example, You just have to have a CW detachment with No Ynnari units in it to gain access to CW Stratagems

Your Ynnari units (in their own detachment) can then use CW strat and be affected by psychic powers. So those WG can be targeted by Quicken to get within 7" of a unit to be able to use their D-scythes and Soulburst off they unit they kill to shoot again.

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Showerthought: Webway-assaulting fire dragons. Any advantages over transporting them?

Would doing a WG bomb be worthwhile? Point me to the post if it has been discussed - I am still dipping my toes into Eldar, not fully immersed yet!

I was thinking an Ynnari Vanguard with three 5-man squads with D-Scythes and the Yncarne. The WG come in via Webway and roll up into 8" range. Whatever they kill, drop in Yncarne? Soulbursting into lots of extra shooting with such gnarly weapons seems good now that they can come in so close.

Or is just bringing a more functional HQ better?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
The WG come in via Webway and roll up into 8" range.

Are you sure they can move after Webway deployment?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Would doing a WG bomb be worthwhile? Point me to the post if it has been discussed - I am still dipping my toes into Eldar, not fully immersed yet!

I was thinking an Ynnari Vanguard with three 5-man squads with D-Scythes and the Yncarne. The WG come in via Webway and roll up into 8" range. Whatever they kill, drop in Yncarne? Soulbursting into lots of extra shooting with such gnarly weapons seems good now that they can come in so close.

Or is just bringing a more functional HQ better?

Shadow Spectres are a better bet, being 9" away with 8" reach isn't ideal (Banshees mightxwork too as cheap and will likely make the 9" charge)

edit opps misread, Webway is the inflitrate one not the deep strike one, might work but relys on going first

Is webway strike infiltration or deep strike? If it's the former than infilitrating wraithguard/fire dragons becomes a fantastic idea. If the latter, not so much.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
The WG come in via Webway and roll up into 8" range.

Are you sure they can move after Webway deployment?

The rumors I have seen have the vehicles Deep Strike while the Infantry Infiltrates, meaning they can move.


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 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Would doing a WG bomb be worthwhile? Point me to the post if it has been discussed - I am still dipping my toes into Eldar, not fully immersed yet!

I was thinking an Ynnari Vanguard with three 5-man squads with D-Scythes and the Yncarne. The WG come in via Webway and roll up into 8" range. Whatever they kill, drop in Yncarne? Soulbursting into lots of extra shooting with such gnarly weapons seems good now that they can come in so close.

Or is just bringing a more functional HQ better?

Shadow Spectres are a better bet, being 9" away with 8" reach isn't ideal (Banshees mightxwork too as cheap and will likely make the 9" charge)

edit opps misread, Webway is the inflitrate one not the deep strike one, might work but relys on going first

Since you deploy them after first turn has been determined, you can always deploy them more conservatively if you don't get first turn.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
The WG come in via Webway and roll up into 8" range.

Are you sure they can move after Webway deployment?

The rumors I have seen have the vehicles Deep Strike while the Infantry Infiltrates, meaning they can move.

It also means that if you don't go first, you wasted a CP because the unit you Infiltrated is now dead before they can move.
"Deep Strike" is clearly a better rule than "Infiltrate" in this edition. I wish the stratagems were reversed (Infiltrate for Vehicles, Deep Strike for Infantry)

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@ em_en_oh_pee

fair point, it just seems a bit too many moving parts for a pay off that isn't much different to using wave serpents for turn 2 d-flamer hijinx

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
@ em_en_oh_pee

fair point, it just seems a bit too many moving parts for a pay off that isn't much different to using wave serpents for turn 2 d-flamer hijinx

I might be worth it if you have 2 units of 5 WG normally, each with a Serpent. You could drop both Serpents, combine the WG into 1 unit of 10 and Infiltrate the single unit.
Just make sure you use the points for the Serpents to get more CPs, otherwise you don't really get much out of it.

 Galef wrote:
"Deep Strike" is clearly a better rule than "Infiltrate" in this edition.

You have it reversed. "Infiltrate" is the crazy good one.

You deploy your units AFTER deciding who's going first. As em_en_oh_pee pointed out, you can always choose to deploy your infiltrators defensively if you don't get first turn.

I really hope they nerf that because right now, Infiltrate stratagems are overpowered.

 Nym wrote:

 Galef wrote:
"Deep Strike" is clearly a better rule than "Infiltrate" in this edition.

You have it reversed. "Infiltrate" is the crazy good one.

You deploy your units AFTER deciding who's going first. As em_en_oh_pee pointed out, you can always choose to deploy your infiltrators defensively if you don't get first turn.

I really hope they nerf that because right now, Infiltrate stratagems are overpowered.

Ok, that makes it more interesting, but I assume you still have to Infiltrate them even if you know you are going second?
So my point remains the same: If you don't go first, you wasted a CP. Deploying them "defensively" will most likely mean too far away from the opponent to be worth it.
Deep Strike stratagems, by contrast, allow you to choice where the unit goes and IMMEDIATELY do something with them because it is your turn. There is zero risk of them being shoot at or charged first. Ergo, Deep Strike abilities are far more valuable in this edition, whereas Infiltrate abilities only pay off 50% of the time

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 Galef wrote:
There is zero risk of them being shoot at or charged first.

Well not zero; there are more and more stratagems coming out that allow you to shoot at a unit that just arrived from reserves.

 Galef wrote:

 Nym wrote:

 Galef wrote:
"Deep Strike" is clearly a better rule than "Infiltrate" in this edition.

You have it reversed. "Infiltrate" is the crazy good one.

You deploy your units AFTER deciding who's going first. As em_en_oh_pee pointed out, you can always choose to deploy your infiltrators defensively if you don't get first turn.

I really hope they nerf that because right now, Infiltrate stratagems are overpowered.

Ok, that makes it more interesting, but I assume you still have to Infiltrate them even if you know you are going second?
So my point remains the same: If you don't go first, you wasted a CP. Deploying them "defensively" will most likely mean too far away from the opponent to be worth it.
Deep Strike stratagems, by contrast, allow you to choice where the unit goes and IMMEDIATELY do something with them because it is your turn. There is zero risk of them being shoot at or charged first. Ergo, Deep Strike abilities are far more valuable in this edition, whereas Infiltrate abilities only pay off 50% of the time

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You're also missing out on how awesome it is to move after this infiltration. So you infiltrate your unit 9" away and then move right up to your target. With deep strike you don't have this ability, so things like WG with Dscythes can't abuse it, or perhaps shadow spectres flamer weapons... even fire dragons looking for melta damage dice.

Both have their tactical usage, no doubt, but I am more frightened by the infiltration of enemy units than the deep strike of enemy units. I can mitigate that as the game plays on.

 Galef wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
The WG come in via Webway and roll up into 8" range.

Are you sure they can move after Webway deployment?

The rumors I have seen have the vehicles Deep Strike while the Infantry Infiltrates, meaning they can move.

It also means that if you don't go first, you wasted a CP because the unit you Infiltrated is now dead before they can move.
"Deep Strike" is clearly a better rule than "Infiltrate" in this edition. I wish the stratagems were reversed (Infiltrate for Vehicles, Deep Strike for Infantry)

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I wouldn't say it is wasted. It is worth the risk in some regards. And depending on the terrain, you can get them much, much closer than slogging. It is a risk/reward that only costs 3CP. Eldar don't struggle to fill Battalions, so it isn't that hard to have a lot to play with.

Infiltrate is amazing if you get first turn, nearly worthless if you don't get first turn. "Defensively" placing your unit pretty much means back in your deployment zone anyway, unless you're very lucky with terrain and your opponent uses zero infiltrators of their own.

Deepstrike is always useful as you can place the unit during whichever turn you like (so good for alpha strikes as well as late game objective grabs), and you can shoot and charge straight away. So if you don't get first turn, it doesn't matter.

So they're both good stratagems, but if you don't get first turn then deepstrike is far far better.

I actually thought both stratagems gave deepstrike. It's a shame they don't. The vehicle one might be useful, but as you can't disembark after deepstriking you have to survive a turn in the serpent anyway... so you might as well just start on the board first turn and move/advance 22" and get into position that way.

The vehicle stratagem is probably better for wraithlords and wraithknights, funnily enough.

The webway assault one... don't know. Wraithguard probably, though it's an expensive unit to leave so vulnerable for a whole turn on the table. And the enemy have the option to just move your target away from them for that turn, so they then won't be able to do much on their second turn anyway.

Any of those stratagems let you drop a monster?

Because I need an Avatar delivery plan, and I'm really not sure how to approach that right now (outside of lots and lots of bodies, which Eldar still don't really do too well, and that I'm not too fond of the idea of painting either).

Niiru wrote:
Infiltrate is amazing if you get first turn, nearly worthless if you don't get first turn. "Defensively" placing your unit pretty much means back in your deployment zone anyway, unless you're very lucky with terrain and your opponent uses zero infiltrators of their own.

Deepstrike is always useful as you can place the unit during whichever turn you like (so good for alpha strikes as well as late game objective grabs), and you can shoot and charge straight away. So if you don't get first turn, it doesn't matter.

So they're both good stratagems, but if you don't get first turn then deepstrike is far far better.

I actually thought both stratagems gave deepstrike. It's a shame they don't. The vehicle one might be useful, but as you can't disembark after deepstriking you have to survive a turn in the serpent anyway... so you might as well just start on the board first turn and move/advance 22" and get into position that way.

The vehicle stratagem is probably better for wraithlords and wraithknights, funnily enough.

The webway assault one... don't know. Wraithguard probably, though it's an expensive unit to leave so vulnerable for a whole turn on the table. And the enemy have the option to just move your target away from them for that turn, so they then won't be able to do much on their second turn anyway.

This guy gets it.

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 Galef wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Infiltrate is amazing if you get first turn, nearly worthless if you don't get first turn. "Defensively" placing your unit pretty much means back in your deployment zone anyway, unless you're very lucky with terrain and your opponent uses zero infiltrators of their own.

Deepstrike is always useful as you can place the unit during whichever turn you like (so good for alpha strikes as well as late game objective grabs), and you can shoot and charge straight away. So if you don't get first turn, it doesn't matter.

So they're both good stratagems, but if you don't get first turn then deepstrike is far far better.

I actually thought both stratagems gave deepstrike. It's a shame they don't. The vehicle one might be useful, but as you can't disembark after deepstriking you have to survive a turn in the serpent anyway... so you might as well just start on the board first turn and move/advance 22" and get into position that way.

The vehicle stratagem is probably better for wraithlords and wraithknights, funnily enough.

The webway assault one... don't know. Wraithguard probably, though it's an expensive unit to leave so vulnerable for a whole turn on the table. And the enemy have the option to just move your target away from them for that turn, so they then won't be able to do much on their second turn anyway.

This guy gets it.

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Gets what? Is that really news? This tactic has been around for a bit now - ie Raven Guard Aggressors via SftS. It is a basic risk/reward concept that allows you - via Ynnari - to potentially shoot up to six times with your WG on T1 before the enemy does anything. So before you go dismissing it, don't forget the immense reward that goes with it. Plus, the whole Yncarne synergy if that is worthwhile.

And deploying defensively doesn't mean in your deployment zone at all. You can easily wind up on flanks or behind a wall not far from your opponent. Do you not play on a table with terrain? Because I do and hiding a 5-man WG unit would be a piece of cake usually.

Likely GW realized Deep Striking infantry was too strong, so we got the toned down version. I still think it is viable. Just hadn't really thought about the other half of the army and what it would need to make it work.

Hi, I'm interested in starting an Eldar army, would getting two of both start collecting boxes be a good way to start a vehicle/foot soldier mix army? Or is there better suggestions to drop a box or two in favor of other units. I'm always lost on when starting a new faction on what direction or units to go for when making the army.

 chacobos wrote:
Hi, I'm interested in starting an Eldar army, would getting two of both start collecting boxes be a good way to start a vehicle/foot soldier mix army? Or is there better suggestions to drop a box or two in favor of other units. I'm always lost on when starting a new faction on what direction or units to go for when making the army.

It's not bad, the problem with Wraithguard though is that they either need to be infiltrated via Webway Strike or they need Wave Serpents to make up for their lack of mobility.

 chacobos wrote:
Hi, I'm interested in starting an Eldar army, would getting two of both start collecting boxes be a good way to start a vehicle/foot soldier mix army? Or is there better suggestions to drop a box or two in favor of other units. I'm always lost on when starting a new faction on what direction or units to go for when making the army.

Buy the new Codex on Saturday... purchase some of your "favorite" units and then build from there. The codex has a lot of unit costs going down and the layers of special rules on top of that, so we'll be in a great place on Saturday.

Also, once you get the codex and start reading through it, the combos and efficiencies will become more transparent to you.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Likely GW realized Deep Striking infantry was too strong, so we got the toned down version.

Convenient for GW to realize this little gem AFTER giving 2 other factions the ability to do this with more than 1-2 unit. Either we need to have the restriction lifted or (more preferably) those other factions need their stratagems Errata'd as well.

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The webway strike (infantry one) is deep strike at end of any movement phase, not infiltrate. I'm looking at it in the codex right now.

 Galef wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Likely GW realized Deep Striking infantry was too strong, so we got the toned down version.

Convenient for GW to realize this little gem AFTER giving 2 other factions the ability to do this with more than 1-2 unit. Either we need to have the restriction lifted or (more preferably) those other factions need their stratagems Errata'd as well.

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Well, I wouldn't go that far. Context matters. What two factions got this where it wasn't fluffy and/or not super overpowered? Because with Eldar, it would be massively overpowered.

chosen_of_khaine wrote:
The webway strike (infantry one) is deep strike at end of any movement phase, not infiltrate. I'm looking at it in the codex right now.

Sweet. I'll stop complaining....for now

chosen_of_khaine wrote:
The webway strike (infantry one) is deep strike at end of any movement phase, not infiltrate. I'm looking at it in the codex right now.

Not at all being a jerk - but are you sure? Does it read like the Strategem from Lucius or from Stygies? lol AdMech player here.

 Galef wrote:

chosen_of_khaine wrote:
The webway strike (infantry one) is deep strike at end of any movement phase, not infiltrate. I'm looking at it in the codex right now.

Sweet. I'll stop complaining....for now

well...that's disappointing...

 Galef wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Likely GW realized Deep Striking infantry was too strong, so we got the toned down version.

Convenient for GW to realize this little gem AFTER giving 2 other factions the ability to do this with more than 1-2 unit. Either we need to have the restriction lifted or (more preferably) those other factions need their stratagems Errata'd as well.

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I doubt that feedback from other codex came back in time to affect this one. Not everything is a conspiracy (as far as you know, anyway).