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TheunlikelyGamer wrote: So I just got the codex yesterday and I've been brainstorming on a list for 1000pt tournament coming up in June. I'll have to toe it by hand since BattleScribe hasn't been updated yet. Here's what had in mind although I let the book at the house and can't remember all the points costs yet.
Mission tactic bonus against troops
HQ Watch captain jumppack TH, Storm bolter 113pts
Warlord trait that adds 1 Damage to non relic weapon . Using on THammer
I think the bikes are a mistake in those KT's. They're not granting T5 to the rest of the squad and you have no Terminators to use the emergency teleport granted by their free teleporter. They're just really expensive storm Bolters for you. You also currently can't fit both KT'S in the Corvus since VV's take 2 spots and bikes take 3.
I don't like the Fortis KT as it's set up. You're paying a lot of points for the lowest ROF weapons to sit back and take 9 pot shots a turn all game even when/if the enemy gets close. I would put the beacon angelus on your Captain, give your Fortis KT the rapid fire variants, and teleport them into their ideal range.
Lemondish wrote: Mission Tactics and Doctrines don't apply to dedicated transports, do they?
Only infantry, bikers, and dreads.
I think he meant as a target. It's a pretty glaring omission given how much certain point eared xenos like to transport spam. I hope they FAQ in Dedicated Transports under Venator doctrine/MT or at least create a new doctrine/mt to cover the gap.
I think the bikes are a mistake in those KT's. They're not granting T5 to the rest of the squad and you have no Terminators to use the emergency teleport granted by their free teleporter. They're just really expensive storm Bolters for you. You also currently can't fit both KT'S in the Corvus since VV's take 2 spots and bikes take 3.
I don't like the Fortis KT as it's set up. You're paying a lot of points for the lowest ROF weapons to sit back and take 9 pot shots a turn all game even when/if the enemy gets close. I would put the beacon angelus on your Captain, give your Fortis KT the rapid fire variants, and teleport them into their ideal range.
I have changed the list since that original post and only 1 team still has the bike the other is basic vets. I built the kill team that way so that they could fall back and shoot from combat and charge again if they want in the same turn. With all the storm bolters firing SIA at the foe before they charge I should have a good chance of being able to fall back without too much damage if I choose the right targets. For the fortis team I was trying to ensure I hang some heavy weapons for hard targets wherther heavy infantry, vehicle etc. the rapid fire plasma incinerator is ony S6 I could take the rapid fire version instead I guess. I think I'd rather teleport them with the strategem then with the relic. I wanted a different relic.
Spoiler:
Mission tactic -Furor- reroll 1s against troops
HQ Watch captain jumppack TH, Storm bolter 113pts
Warlord trait-Castellan of the black vault- adds 1 Damage to non relic weapon . Using on thunder hammer
Relic- banebolts of eryxia add 1 to damage of special issue ammo 6s. Are mortal wounds
Lemondish wrote: Mission Tactics and Doctrines don't apply to dedicated transports, do they?
Only infantry, bikers, and dreads.
I think he meant as a target. It's a pretty glaring omission given how much certain point eared xenos like to transport spam. I hope they FAQ in Dedicated Transports under Venator doctrine/MT or at least create a new doctrine/mt to cover the gap.
I think the bikes are a mistake in those KT's. They're not granting T5 to the rest of the squad and you have no Terminators to use the emergency teleport granted by their free teleporter. They're just really expensive storm Bolters for you. You also currently can't fit both KT'S in the Corvus since VV's take 2 spots and bikes take 3.
I don't like the Fortis KT as it's set up. You're paying a lot of points for the lowest ROF weapons to sit back and take 9 pot shots a turn all game even when/if the enemy gets close. I would put the beacon angelus on your Captain, give your Fortis KT the rapid fire variants, and teleport them into their ideal range.
I have changed the list since that original post and only 1 team still has the bike the other is basic vets. I built the kill team that way so that they could fall back and shoot from combat and charge again if they want in the same turn. With all the storm bolters firing SIA at the foe before they charge I should have a good chance of being able to fall back without too much damage if I choose the right targets. For the fortis team I was trying to ensure I hang some heavy weapons for hard targets wherther heavy infantry, vehicle etc. the rapid fire plasma incinerator is ony S6 I could take the rapid fire version instead I guess. I think I'd rather teleport them with the strategem then with the relic. I wanted a different relic.
Spoiler:
Mission tactic -Furor- reroll 1s against troops
HQ Watch captain jumppack TH, Storm bolter 113pts
Warlord trait-Castellan of the black vault- adds 1 Damage to non relic weapon . Using on thunder hammer
Relic- banebolts of eryxia add 1 to damage of special issue ammo 6s. Are mortal wounds
Not convinced there is a situation where you want the ability to fall back, shoot, and charge a unit given the loadouts of your listed KT's. Either you're getting crushed in CC by a dedicated CC unit, or they're trying to tar pit you with chaff blobs. Like, the only unit I could see that wouldn't wreck you on their turn of cc AND is durable enough to survive a full round of shooting from storm bolters the following turn AND THEN still need to be hit in the face with chainswords is cultists.
Strat or relic is fine for teleporting, just don't spend 300 points to put out 9 shots per turn from your backfield. Rapid fire variants of the bolt rifles and plasma incinerator are IMO the best value for their points. Though the assault bolt rifle does have some advantages at 16-30" range depending on ammo and target type.
I think the Tome and the Beacon are the only two Relics worth taking. Making a Captain slightly more badass is nice, but making a unit able to move across the board to contest/take an objective or kill something critical can win a game.
The question is aimed at anyone who already playtested the new Dex.
Do you feel the DW have enough substance now to compete at a top tier? Maybe not a pure DW list but intergrating them into a soup type deal? Or heck even pure DW
The only thing that I can see that seems to be strong enough is the ability to deep strike primaris and dreadnought into rapid fire range. You load 1 unit full of plasma through hellblasters or veteran, have 1 watch captain with jump pack then use strategem to increase +1 to wound roll and rerolling 1 to wound.
Theoretically, It should be enough to instant kill Magnus, shadow sword, 6 Necron destroyers or Tau Yvavhra.
Parking intercessors in objectives with cover and popping out -1ap 2+ to wound everything that is not a vehicle or 36 range -2 ap seems annoying as hell too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/14 14:35:32
Assuming 5 Intercessors using Hellfire and 5 Hellblasters of the Rapid Fire variant, shooting into Magnus, rerolling hit rolls of 1, but I don't BELIEVE you get reroll wound rolls of 1 against Lords of War, so will calculate without that.
So... Not seeing how that instagibs Magnus. If you meant a full unit of Hellblasters, that ups damage to a little over 10. And if you pop the stratagem for +1 wound (which, again-does that work on LoW?) you get...
It's easy to finish Magnus off with dakka after that. Anyway he is dead within the second turn and your opponent loses the centerpiece of his army. Hellblasters were never able to pull this off before and you only need to deep strike within 15" as well which is very easy to pull off.
Send them a (polite) e-mail so we can get Dedicated Transports added as a valid target for Mission Tactics and Doctrines, either by adding them to an existing doctrine/tactic, creating a new one, or having them take on the role of their passengers for targeting purposes. There's not a lot of Deathwatch players, so we need every voice we can get!
Xorce wrote:It's easy to finish Magnus off with dakka after that. Anyway he is dead within the second turn and your opponent loses the centerpiece of his army. Hellblasters were never able to pull this off before and you only need to deep strike within 15" as well which is very easy to pull off.
I'd say that isn't as easy as you think it is. Will need to punch a hole through their screen, and the screen they use to replenish the one you rocked in the 1st turn - not sure that's guaranteed. That's a good strat, though.
RogueApiary wrote:Hey guys, in light of recent discussion, I have a request, the GWFAQ email is below:
Send them a (polite) e-mail so we can get Dedicated Transports added as a valid target for Mission Tactics and Doctrines, either by adding them to an existing doctrine/tactic, creating a new one, or having them take on the role of their passengers for targeting purposes. There's not a lot of Deathwatch players, so we need every voice we can get!
Already did! Thanks for the reminder, though. I also included questions on the Intercessor aux grenade launcher, the Infernum halo-launcher, Terminator points cost, and a plea to somehow add PotmS through errata to the Blackstar
john27 wrote: So what's the best vehicle killers we have?
Hellblasters, Leviathan dreads, Contemptor Mortis dreads, and Xiphon interceptors are my top picks. In a pinch I guess you could run pseudo Dev squads with 4x missile launchers and some other Bolter or bolter/shield vets to absorb wounds.
The ability to spit out a ton of wounding on 4's/5's with Str 4 AP -2/-3 guns also helps a little.
john27 wrote: So what's the best vehicle killers we have?
Hellblasters, Leviathan dreads, Contemptor Mortis dreads, and Xiphon interceptors are my top picks. In a pinch I guess you could run pseudo Dev squads with 4x missile launchers and some other Bolter or bolter/shield vets to absorb wounds.
The ability to spit out a ton of wounding on 4's/5's with Str 4 AP -2/-3 guns also helps a little.
Missile Launchers with a stalker on the sarge and an Infernus Heavy Bolter for the strat and some overwatch potential perhaps? I feel like we need just enough AT to make it so that we can contribute to killing vehicles without having to spend all our CP on the mortal wound shenanigans.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/14 20:17:38
john27 wrote: So what's the best vehicle killers we have?
Hellblasters, Leviathan dreads, Contemptor Mortis dreads, and Xiphon interceptors are my top picks. In a pinch I guess you could run pseudo Dev squads with 4x missile launchers and some other Bolter or bolter/shield vets to absorb wounds.
The ability to spit out a ton of wounding on 4's/5's with Str 4 AP -2/-3 guns also helps a little.
Missile Launchers with a stalker on the sarge and an Infernus Heavy Bolter for the strat and some overwatch potential perhaps? I feel like we need just enough AT to make it so that we can contribute to killing vehicles without having to spend all our CP on the mortal wound shenanigans.
I would probably run long range anti-vehicle Kill Teams like 2 missile launchers and 3 stalker bolters, but run 2 of them. The rest of my anti-vehicle will come from thunder hammers, dreadnought CCWs, hellblasters, or maybe even a spearhead of Raven Guard devs to just bring my classic lascannons back.
Quoth the Raven "You're gonna be shooting at a -1."
john27 wrote: So what's the best vehicle killers we have?
Hellblasters, Leviathan dreads, Contemptor Mortis dreads, and Xiphon interceptors are my top picks. In a pinch I guess you could run pseudo Dev squads with 4x missile launchers and some other Bolter or bolter/shield vets to absorb wounds.
The ability to spit out a ton of wounding on 4's/5's with Str 4 AP -2/-3 guns also helps a little.
Any particular reason for the Contemptor pick over the standard mortis dread?
I’d like to run a Levi in my battalion and am thinking dual storm cannons is the way to go. Thoughts?
Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough.
Assuming 5 Intercessors using Hellfire and 5 Hellblasters of the Rapid Fire variant, shooting into Magnus, rerolling hit rolls of 1, but I don't BELIEVE you get reroll wound rolls of 1 against Lords of War, so will calculate without that.
So... Not seeing how that instagibs Magnus. If you meant a full unit of Hellblasters, that ups damage to a little over 10. And if you pop the stratagem for +1 wound (which, again-does that work on LoW?) you get...
john27 wrote: So what's the best vehicle killers we have?
Hellblasters, Leviathan dreads, Contemptor Mortis dreads, and Xiphon interceptors are my top picks. In a pinch I guess you could run pseudo Dev squads with 4x missile launchers and some other Bolter or bolter/shield vets to absorb wounds.
The ability to spit out a ton of wounding on 4's/5's with Str 4 AP -2/-3 guns also helps a little.
Any particular reason for the Contemptor pick over the standard mortis dread?
2+ BS, 2 more wounds and a 5++. The degrading profile shouldnt come into play since mid tier is equal BS to the normal Mortis and if they're at bottom tier, they already outlived the Mortis so any shots you get at BS 4+ are gravy. As another mitigating factor to profile degradation. Damage tables change the BS instead of modifying the hit roll, so a Watch Master can help cover the Contemptor Mortis as it degrades.
I see what you mean with the contemptor, and I think it makes sense, it's only 28 points more and you get a lot more survivability and importantly that 2+ to hit.
A quick look at the GW kit tells me I would have to buy forgeworld? Twin lascannon would make the most sense right?
I'm also keen on the Leviathan dread, but slightly torn on the weapon options, I thinking dual grav flux would be the best option due to the fact that you could wipe out hordes if needed and the guaranteed 5dmg is very nice on monsters ans vehicles. What do you guys think?
I want a nice small elite force so I'm thinking I might pick up both of the guys above to form the backbone of my anti tank.
Then a couple of vet squads with storm bolters, couple of shields, and a couple of frag cannons each, to ride in a transport.
And then some primaris with hellblasters to back up the Leviathan as others have suggested.
Already did! Thanks for the reminder, though. I also included questions on the Intercessor aux grenade launcher, the Infernum halo-launcher, Terminator points cost, and a plea to somehow add PotmS through errata to the Blackstar
Can you be more specific on the first few? I noticed the rules are inconsistent for the halo-launcher on the model and the wargear page, and I'm assuming we take the former since it's the one that's different from the index. What's up with the grenade launcher and the Terminator costs?
Quoth the Raven "You're gonna be shooting at a -1."
Already did! Thanks for the reminder, though. I also included questions on the Intercessor aux grenade launcher, the Infernum halo-launcher, Terminator points cost, and a plea to somehow add PotmS through errata to the Blackstar
Can you be more specific on the first few? I noticed the rules are inconsistent for the halo-launcher on the model and the wargear page, and I'm assuming we take the former since it's the one that's different from the index. What's up with the grenade launcher and the Terminator costs?
Re: Infernum - I think it's safe to assume the datasheet one is what we should be using, but it'd be nice to know for sure. Probably an errata thing.
Re: Aux nade launcher - RAW, since the Intercessor unit starts with 1 Sgt. and 4 Intercessors, and an Intercessor Sgt. is a differently model with a different statline and treated differently for all wargear purposes (or referenced separately when it applies to both him and regular old Intercessors), the wording "For every 5 Intercessors..." in the Intercessors data sheet seems to imply that the Sgt. isn't included when making this determination. Kind of like how even though a Black Shield or a Watch Sergeant is a Veteran, they aren't really a Veteran for wargear purposes. The change in wording from the "For every 5 models..." line from the C:SM is weird and makes it appear as if - if we're being heavily literal - you need a squad of 6 to take an aux launcher.
Re: Terminator costs - every other unit in the codex was updated to match its C:SM counterpart...except this one. Seems out of place as they're still inexplicably 31 points. Perhaps intended because of Unflinching? Seems SUPER freakin' expensive for just that buff, so I felt it was worth throwing in there for clarification. Not entirely sure it's something they'll errata but was worth sending along.
Re: PotMS on Blackstar - this is just a freakin' shot in the dark. I have zero confidence we'll see that added. Likewise zero confidence in seeing something like Heavy Bolters get back on the SIA list.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/15 16:42:14
