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I asked a similar question the other day, but now that I have a few games under my belt, I wanted to rephrase it, and get some additional input.

During the Shooting Phase, under Step 1, Choose a unit to shoot with, it states: "Unless otherwise stated, EACH model in the unit attacks with all of the ranged weapons it is armed with."

Step 2, Choose targets states: "In order to target an enemy unit, a model from that unit must be within range of the weapon being used and be visible to the shooting model."

So if I have a unit that has 7 models in the shooting unit within range of at least one visible enemy model in the target unit (at this point of the shooting phase), do all of those models get to shoot?

Or, is it possible that if I am shooting with one model at a time, instead of rolling all of the attacks together, that the enemy player could remove wounded models in such a way that some of these original 7 shooters no longer had an enemy model in range or sight, prohibiting some of these original 7 models from shooting?

Thanks!

All wounds are allocated to models at the end of the phase, so he couldn't remove them in a way to stop your other guys from firing in the same phase.

That's my understanding of it anyway.

Tiberius501 -

Thanks, that is how I understood it to work as well, it just seems like the rulebook text could indicate that you do it model by model - start to finish - allocating and removing wounds as they happen, rather than all at once at the end of all of the attacks for the unit.

It seems like it's done in steps. Even if you roll to hit individually, you still get all your hit rolls done first. Then the next step is to roll to wound with them all. Then the next step is rolling saves for each unit, then alocate unsaved damage, etc. That's how I saw it anyway, though I could be wrong

If you roll, say, 10 dice and all hit. Step 1.
All 10 of them miraculously wound. Step 2.
There are now a pile of wounds to be first allocated (Step 3) and then saved (Step 4)

What's to stop the player of the targeted grot player from allocating all 10 wounds to one model and then gleefully not caring as he rolls 10 dice knowing that only a single model will die?

I know if we go one attack at a time or if we play with decent human beings that shouldn't be a problem. But does the fast rolling approach prevent this sort of issue? In the allocate wounds step says "...player commanding the target unit allocates the wound to any model in the unit..."

Is allocate "the wound" as in a single wound the key?

 privateer4hire wrote:
If you roll, say, 10 dice and all hit. Step 1.
All 10 of them miraculously wound. Step 2.
There are now a pile of wounds to be first allocated (Step 3) and then saved (Step 4)

What's to stop the player of the targeted grot player from allocating all 10 wounds to one model and then gleefully not caring as he rolls 10 dice knowing that only a single model will die?

I know if we go one attack at a time or if we play with decent human beings that shouldn't be a problem. But does the fast rolling approach prevent this sort of issue? In the allocate wounds step says "...player commanding the target unit allocates the wound to any model in the unit..."

Is allocate "the wound" as in a single wound the key?

Read the shooting steps very carefully. You only check range and visibility before you start rolling any dice at all. So once you start rolling dice casualties cannot affect which firing models have range and/or LOS.

Wounds and saves are allocated and taken one at a time even with fast rolling. If you check the fast rolling rules, you'll see they only apply to rolls to hit and rolls to wound. Allocation and saves are always one at a time.

Thanks for that.

So if only 1 model in a unit of 10 is visible then is it possible to kill all 10 models in that unit with some lucky rolling?

scrugget wrote:
So if only 1 model in a unit of 10 is visible then is it possible to kill all 10 models in that unit with some lucky rolling?

Yes.

I would just add to the discussion that the FAQ says that if, after removing some models, all of the remaining models end up in cover (because you removed all the ones that weren't), then you have the +1 cover for the remaining guys.
Because of that we now have to roll saves in batches.

fresus wrote:

scrugget wrote:
So if only 1 model in a unit of 10 is visible then is it possible to kill all 10 models in that unit with some lucky rolling?

Yes.

I would just add to the discussion that the FAQ says that if, after removing some models, all of the remaining models end up in cover (because you removed all the ones that weren't), then you have the +1 cover for the remaining guys.
Because of that we now have to roll saves in batches.

Are you sure that note wasn't about subsequent shooting attacks? Because it definitely doesn't say exactly what you just said.

Saves are only ever supposed to be rolled one at a time anyway. It's just that this is only a very small advantage to the defender except in a few cases like when you're firing variable damage weapons at a unit of multi-wound models or firing at a unit partially in cover.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

fresus wrote:

scrugget wrote:
So if only 1 model in a unit of 10 is visible then is it possible to kill all 10 models in that unit with some lucky rolling?

Yes.

I would just add to the discussion that the FAQ says that if, after removing some models, all of the remaining models end up in cover (because you removed all the ones that weren't), then you have the +1 cover for the remaining guys.
Because of that we now have to roll saves in batches.

Are you sure that note wasn't about subsequent shooting attacks? Because it definitely doesn't say exactly what you just said.

It says "As soon as the last model that was not on or within terrain is slain, the rest of the unit immediately starts to receive the benefit of cover.". Since the fast dice section of the rules says we can roll hits/wounds all at the same time, but still then allocate wounds/make saves one at a time, my understanding is that the bonus from cover can be gained during the same shooting attack. And they emphasize the "immediately" part quite a lot in the commentary.

So if they all go into a single pool, could they take all the bolter saves before rolling the plasma saves? or do you roll them in sets where the plasma rolls to hit and wound, is saved, followed by the bolter shots hits, wounds, and saves?

 wash-away wrote:
So if they all go into a single pool, could they take all the bolter saves before rolling the plasma saves? or do you roll them in sets where the plasma rolls to hit and wound, is saved, followed by the bolter shots hits, wounds, and saves?

Attacks technically go one at a time, but if you have weapons with the exact same characteristics, then you can group roll just the 'to hit' and 'to wound' rolls for those weapons together. Then the defending player picks a wound one at a time to allocate to a model and take saves for it.

So as the firing player, even using fast rolling, I can choose to roll my bolters first. The defending player then has to allocate any successful wounds, one at a time, to his models and take a save for each wound allocated. Then I can roll my plasma guns (but note that we've already passed the step of the shooting phase where we check range/line of sight, so regardless of what casualties have been removed, my plasmas that were within range/LOS still get to fire) with any of those successful wounds being allocated, one at a time, by the defending player and saves being taken for each wound allocated.

 wash-away wrote:
So if they all go into a single pool, could they take all the bolter saves before rolling the plasma saves? or do you roll them in sets where the plasma rolls to hit and wound, is saved, followed by the bolter shots hits, wounds, and saves?

Technically, it is up to your opponent which saves you'll take first by what they're choosing to fire. As Yakface pointed out, the sequence is chosen by the shooting unit. If I shoot my bolters first, you have to take bolter saves first. If I shoot plasmas first, you take plasma saves. I don't even shoot my plasma guns until you've already wounded, saved and removed slain models from the bolters or vice versa.