Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi Guys

So this came up for some friends, a Las pred shoots at Oblits, doing 3wounding hits... now the oblitz have multi wnds and damage allocation is done before damage

So can the Oblitz player choose to allocate to a single model and soak all the fire?

Yes.

GodDamUser wrote:
Hi Guys

So this came up for some friends, a Las pred shoots at Oblits, doing 3wounding hits... now the oblitz have multi wnds and damage allocation is done before damage

So can the Oblitz player choose to allocate to a single model and soak all the fire?

No, because its the Shooting player who gets to decide if he's going to make his attacks one at a time or all together. Why would he intentionally hamper himself by making all of his attacks together?

The only thing I can say is resolve each attack one at a time. The shooting phase rules say allocation comes before damage but do not say that all of the shots have to be resolved at once (in fact the rules state that the method laid out is to resolve them one at a time).

Thanks for that

 Ghaz wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
Hi Guys

So this came up for some friends, a Las pred shoots at Oblits, doing 3wounding hits... now the oblitz have multi wnds and damage allocation is done before damage

So can the Oblitz player choose to allocate to a single model and soak all the fire?

No, because its the Shooting player who gets to decide if he's going to make his attacks one at a time or all together. Why would he intentionally hamper himself by making all of his attacks together?

Incorrect. Defending player allocates the wounds on the unit being shot. This can include models in the unit that would be out of LoS or out of range of the weapon being fired. I believe you are thinking of when a unit chooses targets, which happens before you shoot the unit

Basically what should happen is this: Pred chooses the Oblits to shoot at. Pred shoots. Oblits take any available saves. Pred controlling player rolls for damage for each unsaved wound. If the Oblits have some other saving mechanic it should fall here. Oblit controlling player assigns wounds lost to models. One model keeps taking wounds until it dies. If I'm reading what you said correctly then 1 Oblit would of taken the 3 damage and died

BomBomHotdog wrote:

Basically what should happen is this: Pred chooses the Oblits to shoot at. Pred shoots. Oblits take any available saves. Pred controlling player rolls for damage for each unsaved wound. If the Oblits have some other saving mechanic it should fall here. Oblit controlling player assigns wounds lost to models. One model keeps taking wounds until it dies. If I'm reading what you said correctly then 1 Oblit would of taken the 3 damage and died

This isnt quite right..

Pred chooses the Oblits to shoot at. Pred shoots. Pred wounds, Oblit controlling player assigns wounds, Oblits take any available saves. Pred controlling player rolls for damage for each unsaved wound. If the Oblits have some other saving mechanic it should fall here. One model keeps taking wounds until it dies.

So if you are shoot multiple weapons (i.e. las at oblitz you do them 1 at a time so he cant soak them all)

But what if it is a twin las, so Hvy 2, he shoots hits and wounds with both shots, the oblit player can assign them to the 1 duder, he soaks all of the incoming wounds?

BomBomHotdog wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
Hi Guys

So this came up for some friends, a Las pred shoots at Oblits, doing 3wounding hits... now the oblitz have multi wnds and damage allocation is done before damage

So can the Oblitz player choose to allocate to a single model and soak all the fire?

No, because its the Shooting player who gets to decide if he's going to make his attacks one at a time or all together. Why would he intentionally hamper himself by making all of his attacks together?

Incorrect. Defending player allocates the wounds on the unit being shot. This can include models in the unit that would be out of LoS or out of range of the weapon being fired. I believe you are thinking of when a unit chooses targets, which happens before you shoot the unit

Basically what should happen is this: Pred chooses the Oblits to shoot at. Pred shoots. Oblits take any available saves. Pred controlling player rolls for damage for each unsaved wound. If the Oblits have some other saving mechanic it should fall here. Oblit controlling player assigns wounds lost to models. One model keeps taking wounds until it dies. If I'm reading what you said correctly then 1 Oblit would of taken the 3 damage and died

And he can't allocate multiple wounds if the shooting player has decide to make his attacks one at a time:

 Ghaz wrote:
And he can't allocate multiple wounds if the shooting player has decide to make his attacks one at a time:

Yeah the new issue is Heavy 2, so 2 shots are the 1 attack

Ah yeah I see the issue now. My guess is that you roll to hit and wound for both, then allocate and roll for damage separately.

I double checked against the way 8th handles damage vs AoS, since 8th is so similar. I find it interesting that GW chose to reverse when allocation is done for 8th

BomBomHotdog wrote:
Basically what should happen is this: Pred chooses the Oblits to shoot at. Pred shoots. Oblits take any available saves. Pred controlling player rolls for damage for each unsaved wound. If the Oblits have some other saving mechanic it should fall here. Oblit controlling player assigns wounds lost to models. One model keeps taking wounds until it dies. If I'm reading what you said correctly then 1 Oblit would of taken the 3 damage and died

Each attack is resolved separately. Iterate through step 4 in the BRB for each attack. For a Heavy 2, you resolve each attack one at a time. I think OP is talking about an (incorrect) situation where a single model could soak 2x 6 wound hits, because both hits were declared by the receiver on a single model before wounds were rolled. RAW, the first attack would kill the model chosen by the receiver, then the second attack would have to be allocated to another model by the receiver.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

GodDamUser wrote:


Yeah the new issue is Heavy 2, so 2 shots are the 1 attack

No, it's 2 attacks. BRB 179 "the number of attacks a model can make with a weapon, and therefore the number of dice you can roll, is found on the weapon's profile, along with the weapon's type. A weapon's type can impact the number of attacks it can make."

So reading over the shooting section multiple times..

If you roll your attacks 1 at a time, then the player would not be able to tank the hits on a single 2wnd+ model

If you went for the fast rolling option, the player could tank both hits on the single 2wnd+ model

Its quite simple, you can roll all the dice, but since the receiving player can allocate the wounds. He can avoid kills..

Two D6 wounding weapons hits, wounds, armour saves fails against a unit with models with 3wounds each.

now the shooting player rolls 2D6 to see how many wounds are inflicted. rolls 2 and 4. The defending player then allocates the wounds, he can either choose to inflict the "4wounds first" thus killing a model and a second then looses 2 wounds from the other attack. Or he can choose to first inflict the 2 wounds, and then the 4wounds, only killing one model!!

On the other hand, the controling player can choose to roll the damage die one after another, avoiding this issue.

The rules are pretty clear on this, I think. There is no permission given to roll saves or damage for multiple wounds at the same time. The "Fast Dice Rolling" rules only say to roll the hit and wound rolls together, and then are explicit that the defender is to allocate the wounds and roll saves one at a time.

The only procedure that the rules actually allow for firing (only) a Heavy 2 gun with d6 damage at a unit is as follows:

Attacker simultaneously rolls 2 dice to hit.

Attacker simultaneously rolls a die to wound for each hit.

For each wound, one at a time {
Defender allocates the wound and rolls a save.
If unsaved, attacker rolls damage.
}

So if a unit of multi-wound models takes multiple Lascannon wounds (that is, successful to-wound rolls), the defender then has to pick a model to try to save against each in turn, and then that model suffers damage if the save fails. If that model dies then no more wounds can be allocated to it.

Dionysodorus wrote:
So if a unit of multi-wound models takes multiple Lascannon wounds (that is, successful to-wound rolls), the defender then has to pick a model to try to save against each in turn, and then that model suffers damage if the save fails. If that model dies then no more wounds can be allocated to it.

Pretty much this. There's no fast rolling the d6 damage as there's no way to determine order except roll 1 at a time and order would have effect(roll 1 and 6 and it's either dead or dead and wounded).

Salvo of multiwound weapons against multiwound models is taking annoying speed bump in the end.

Dionysodorus wrote:
The rules are pretty clear on this, I think. There is no permission given to roll saves or damage for multiple wounds at the same time. The "Fast Dice Rolling" rules only say to roll the hit and wound rolls together, and then are explicit that the defender is to allocate the wounds and roll saves one at a time.

The only procedure that the rules actually allow for firing (only) a Heavy 2 gun with d6 damage at a unit is as follows:

Attacker simultaneously rolls 2 dice to hit.

Attacker simultaneously rolls a die to wound for each hit.

For each wound, one at a time {
Defender allocates the wound and rolls a save.
If unsaved, attacker rolls damage.
}

So if a unit of multi-wound models takes multiple Lascannon wounds (that is, successful to-wound rolls), the defender then has to pick a model to try to save against each in turn, and then that model suffers damage if the save fails. If that model dies then no more wounds can be allocated to it.

What he said! ^^^

The fast rolling rules only apply to the 'to hit' and 'to wound' rolls. Even with fast rolling, the player being shot at still has to allocate wounds, make saves and then apply damage one shot at a time.