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Hello, I just started playing this game, and my armies got obliterated someone who mass rows of heavy weapon team hiding behind tough Orgyns.

Is there anyway to counter this, because I constantly lose 3-4 guys before I even get chance to move (depend who goes first)

There are few options, I was thinking maybe

1) I figure maybe hiding behind trees would help, but then you can't hide everybody.
2) or behind Terminators, but then they can only last a few rounds.
3) fight fire with fire, having my own heavy weapon team, but then that's not really solve the problem. Now it's just a race...

darrekbaal wrote:
Hello, I just started playing this game, and my armies got obliterated someone who mass rows of heavy weapon team hiding behind tough Orgyns.

Is there anyway to counter this, because I constantly lose 3-4 guys before I even get chance to move (depend who goes first)

There are few options, I was thinking maybe

1) I figure maybe hiding behind trees would help, but then you can't hide everybody.
2) or behind Terminators, but then they can only last a few rounds.
3) fight fire with fire, having my own heavy weapon team, but then that's not really solve the problem. Now it's just a race...

You need to be more Specific. What army, what weapons, How does he deploy these units?

There are generally three ways to counter heavy shooting units. You can either a.) outshoot them by taking as many heavy weapons as you can and blowing them off the table (seems like you're playing marines or chaos so you should have plenty of options for this and tough armour to survive until you do it), b.) you go for an assault army and quickly and take out those heavy weapons by charging them, or c.) you find units from your list that can quickly get into combat and just tie them up so they can't shoot - marine scouts, landspeeders, chaos helldrakes, teleporting terminators, whatever you can deploy close to him or that can fly fast enough to reach him by turn 2. You'll have to shoot through the Ogryn screen though so take some heavy shooting to deal with them, high volume fire weapons like heavy bolters and autocannons (or assault cannons if you're marines) can chew through them. A good unit to take to do that might be a dakka pred - predator with autocannon turret and heavy bolter sponsons. It can take a lot of shooting to stop a predator in 8th and that thing can pump out a ton of shots to chew through infantry, even tough ones.

Another option is just to play the new edition of 40K. His infantry no longer get a cover save from the Bullgryn screen.

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

darrekbaal wrote:
Hello, I just started playing this game, and my armies got obliterated someone who mass rows of heavy weapon team hiding behind tough Orgyns.

Is there anyway to counter this, because I constantly lose 3-4 guys before I even get chance to move (depend who goes first)

There are few options, I was thinking maybe

1) I figure maybe hiding behind trees would help, but then you can't hide everybody.
2) or behind Terminators, but then they can only last a few rounds.
3) fight fire with fire, having my own heavy weapon team, but then that's not really solve the problem. Now it's just a race...

You need to be more Specific. What army, what weapons, How does he deploy these units?

He simply massing heavy weapon autocannon and lascannon at start of game, for the obvious he is IG (astra militarum) he blows very much everything from across the board at super range (48") it's hard to get close even for assault team without getting gun down by everything else nearby.

Yeah, but what army do you have? Since you just started, what models do you have? Are you guys playing 7th or are you going off of the leaked 8th rules?

 daedalus wrote:
Yeah, but what army do you have? Since you just started, what models do you have? Are you guys playing 7th or are you going off of the leaked 8th rules?

Chaos infantry, Berzerker, SM.....(been trying to get Chaos Terminator, not sure how much that can tank Autocannon and Lascanon X_X)

It seem Chaos doesn't have anything that can match that range of 48'

That's the one SM army I don't really have experience playing, unfortunately. That's fine though, because there's some generic things you can do to get rid of them.

Assuming 7th edition:

You can deepstrike terminators on the other side of the Ogryn. That'll let you get close to them at hit them hard with shooting, and then clean up anything else with melee after.

Shooting back at him with heavy weapons isn't very useful for the most part since he's wearing pizza box armor and has no toughness. Better to save that for any tanks he might have, though it might be worthwhile if there's nothing else to shoot at, since they will cause instant death.

Giving them so many targets they're not able to keep up might help, as in bringing a lot of Rhinos to keep them busy and help screen your units.

Their biggest weakness is their bad leadership. You get rid of one team in the squad, and then they have to check to not run away, which they should fail some 42% of the time.

Read up on the amount of terrain that's recommended for the table. Few tables have enough, and that really lets gunline armies dominate.

 daedalus wrote:
That's the one SM army I don't really have experience playing, unfortunately. That's fine though, because there's some generic things you can do to get rid of them.

Assuming 7th edition:

You can deepstrike terminators on the other side of the Ogryn. That'll let you get close to them at hit them hard with shooting, and then clean up anything else with melee after.

Shooting back at him with heavy weapons isn't very useful for the most part since he's wearing pizza box armor and has no toughness. Better to save that for any tanks he might have, though it might be worthwhile if there's nothing else to shoot at, since they will cause instant death.

Giving them so many targets they're not able to keep up might help, as in bringing a lot of Rhinos to keep them busy and help screen your units.

Their biggest weakness is their bad leadership. You get rid of one team in the squad, and then they have to check to not run away, which they should fail some 42% of the time.

Well just generally speaking. Doesn't have to be specific army.
The obvious one way to fight is "who has bigger gun" Since I also play Eldar, maybe I can use Eldar heavy weapon like Vaul's Wrath Support Battery. But then that's not much a counter.

Not sure about assault rule but for new 8th edition Deepstrike rule is 9 in. away. That said, that Terminator group will most likely die next turn due to getting shot by everything else nearby (include by those Orgyn's attacks)

It's just the standard rule of line of sight is kind of dumb, you can't hit his heavy weapon team if he has another group to block your line of sight, yet his heavy weapon team can still shoot through his friendly group (Orgyn) and can still hit you.

Do you have any transport? Part of the problem might be trying to foot slog 6" moving cc units across a board against an IG gun line.

In order to beat gunlines all of your cc units must be in transports unless they are deepstriking behind their lines. (In 8e this is suprisingly strong)

 mrhappyface wrote:
Do you have any transport? Part of the problem might be trying to foot slog 6" moving cc units across a board against an IG gun line.

In order to beat gunlines all of your cc units must be in transports unless they are deepstriking behind their lines. (In 8e this is suprisingly strong)

I don't have Rhino, simply cause it's not fun to do that. But that's definitely one of the old trick to get close without getting shot down by heavy weapon team. Not sure how much hit transport can take from lascanon heavy weapon IG team and melta infantry though.