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Hi guys,

I was just going through some of the SM vehicles (I already put a post the other day about the stormhawk) and I just realised how silly is the razorback. For a 100 points with an assault cannon, you have 12 S6 AP-1 shots for 100 points and 5 transport capacity. If we compare this to similar transport gunplatforms, we can come across another good one on the Wave serpets.

The SM Twin assault cannon razorbacks deals 12 S6 AP-1 shots compared to the 9S6 shots of a Wave Serpent, and while a bit less resilient, it costs 50 points less. You can get 3 AC razorbacks for the price of 2 WS, so that's just 2 less transport capacity and no serpent shield but 4 more total wounds, and 36 S6 AP-1 shots to the 18 made why a wave serpent.

Is it me, or did a lot of people miss this when testing the units? I think the issue is more related the the assault cannon and it's cost than the razorback itself. Also, for some reason SM twin weapons cost is not twice of a regular one, while other armies such as Eldar get the double tag.

Any thoughts,

It's the change in twin weapons in my opinion. Looks like they missed it. Probably will get bumped up after Razorback sales crescendo.

kaintxu wrote:
Hi guys,

I was just going through some of the SM vehicles (I already put a post the other day about the stormhawk) and I just realised how silly is the razorback. For a 100 points with an assault cannon, you have 12 S6 AP-1 shots for 100 points and 5 transport capacity. If we compare this to similar transport gunplatforms, we can come across another good one on the Wave serpets.

The SM Twin assault cannon razorbacks deals 12 S6 AP-1 shots compared to the 9S6 shots of a Wave Serpent, and while a bit less resilient, it costs 50 points less. You can get 3 AC razorbacks for the price of 2 WS, so that's just 2 less transport capacity and no serpent shield but 4 more total wounds, and 36 S6 AP-1 shots to the 18 made why a wave serpent.

Is it me, or did a lot of people miss this when testing the units? I think the issue is more related the the assault cannon and it's cost than the razorback itself. Also, for some reason SM twin weapons cost is not twice of a regular one, while other armies such as Eldar get the double tag.

Any thoughts,

While I think that the Razorback is clearly getting a lot more for its points than basically anything else, I don't know if the Serpent is the best comparison for showing how off it is. Serpents are actually really, really solid themselves, being easily better than the other Eldar tanks. That the Razorback is even better is just kind of ridiculous. Note though that they actually do expect the same number of S6 hits on the move, although the Razorback has some incredible buffs available to it too (mostly through Guilliman).

Also, there's no reason to expect that twin weapons should in general cost twice as much as a regular one. The prices of weapons are not supposed to represent the offensive power of those weapons in a vacuum. They're just upgrade prices. Bolters are not really worthless, it's just that they're priced into regular Marines. When you're wanting different units to be able to choose the same weapons at the same prices, you'll have to play around with their base costs to make it so that the final result is balanced for each unit. AFAIK the Wave Serpent is actually the only unit in the Eldar index that can take twin versions of the Eldar heavy weapons, and that weapon slot must go to a twin weapon, so probably just for aesthetic reasons the base cost was set such that the twin weapon prices would be reasonable at double the standard prices. Note that the twin shuriken catapult is 10 points to the regular shuriken catapult's 0 -- those are weapons that you see on multiple units (but always in different weapon slots). If the twin catapult cost 0 it would make a lot of sense to leave it unupgraded on many units.

have read all the indexes, i think pint for point the assault cannon razorback is about the bes thting in any codex. that said from a gw perspective in US $

$41.25 per razorback, then $19.75 for the land raider crusader upgrade sprue to get assault cannons (which is now sold out online)

gotta move that plastic!

Here, I would say point for point the best SM vehicle is the Stormraven.


+ Flyer +
Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 311pts]: 2x Hurricane Bolter, 2x Stormstrike Missile Launcher, Twin Assault Cannon, Twin multi-melta

Transport cap: 12 + 1 dreadnought

This allows you to field 6 of your units as 1 model on turn 1. Pretty much allowing you to go first.

kaintxu wrote:
Hi guys,

I was just going through some of the SM vehicles (I already put a post the other day about the stormhawk) and I just realised how silly is the razorback. For a 100 points with an assault cannon, you have 12 S6 AP-1 shots for 100 points and 5 transport capacity. If we compare this to similar transport gunplatforms, we can come across another good one on the Wave serpets.

The SM Twin assault cannon razorbacks deals 12 S6 AP-1 shots compared to the 9S6 shots of a Wave Serpent, and while a bit less resilient, it costs 50 points less. You can get 3 AC razorbacks for the price of 2 WS, so that's just 2 less transport capacity and no serpent shield but 4 more total wounds, and 36 S6 AP-1 shots to the 18 made why a wave serpent.

Is it me, or did a lot of people miss this when testing the units? I think the issue is more related the the assault cannon and it's cost than the razorback itself. Also, for some reason SM twin weapons cost is not twice of a regular one, while other armies such as Eldar get the double tag.

Any thoughts,

I'd say the Razorback isn't "a bit less resilient" but "alot less resilient".
The Waveserpent has 3 more wounds, which on it's own is quite noticeable, and then add that the serpent shield which lowers damage suffered by 1 to a minimum of 1.
Suddenly you're looking at a Serpent that theoretically have up to "25* wounds", vs the Razorbacks 10. I think people underestimate how powerful this field is, D2 and D3 attacks become much less of a threat. (*12 D2 attacks would inflict 12 wounds on the serpent but 24 on the razorbacks.)

The Waveserpent also flies, is 4" faster and has more utility and what kind of units it carry. (The Razorback is restricted to infantry.)

The only edge the Razorbacks have is that they have better offensive output, however you failed to mention that Shuriken Cannons still have their old rending (6's to wound become AP-3) while Assault Cannons lost their rending, giving the Shuriken Cannons an edge vs heavily armoured targets.
You can also splitfire the Waveserpent if you so which, since it has 2 weapons compared to the Razorbacks 1. (Minor point perhaps but still.)

Honestly, both the Waveserpent and the Razorback are probably underpriced, and I say this as a Eldar and SM player.